@ballpeen said:

To not get through is pretty telling IMO.

110% telling.  Instructions to the grand jury [words may be different by county but the message is not] are that if you think the evidence is even 51-49, you're supposed to vote to indict.  That's the words we were told when I served on a grand jury.

The method of pulling grand juries is a decent cross-section of people they'd need to convince in that area to get that conviction --- Where I lived if your name was given a low enough number, you were legally sitting in that seat on that jury no matter what you would rather be doing with your time.

2 random collections of people were created who didn't think the totality of prosecutorial evidence passed even a sniff test.. saying nothing about the rigor of an actual trial.

Grand juries take notes and debate to come up with decisions just like any other jury -- there's discussion of "Remember Jeff said this, that means he couldn't have been at the corner of Broad+High when Sally said he was".

You'd really have to be starting with a desire to find guilty regardless of fact to think a 3rd or 4th grand jury would deliver a different outcome..

@hoorta said:

the Browns have entered the realm of high priced QBs. When you have one player eating up that much cap, you have to trade or cut talented players......It's why I'm concerned the Brown aren't going to be able to afford Denzel Ward's asking price next year.

We're now behind schedule.  We were supposed to be challenging for the super bowl this past year, and next.  The window is gonna start slipping downward.

@hoorta said:

Well the lawyer that's representing most of the women (Busbee) supposedly lives next door to McNair, and didn't know who he was.

Here's a quote right from horse's A$$ : “… I put up 10 billboards up around Houston asking my neighbor Mr. McNair [former Texans owner Bob McNair] to draft the greatest college football player ever,” Buzbee wrote in the caption. “Obviously, it didn’t happen.”

@flugel said:

I don't remember reading/hearing Watson was doing any of this back at Clemson?  As others have mentioned, nobody heard anything about this pattern until right around the time Watson informed the Texans he wanted out.  We're all looking at as to how Watson has benefitted from the trade; but Houston has created an ideal opportunity in the draft with all the 1st round picks and other selections they're getting.  With the rookie salary cap, that should promote a much healthier cap to manage if they nail some high round picks. We'll probably never really know to what extent the Houston FO/Owner played dirty pool (if any) behind the scenes.

Well the lawyer that's representing most of the women (Busbee) supposedly lives next door to McNair, and didn't know who he was. Sure. If you read through Watson's side of the story (open to interpretation) there's plenty of indications this is a cash grab. Yeah, you have to at least wonder if McNair was pissed that Watson wanted out. 

As to the Texans having a bunch of cheap high round picks for the next several seasons,  they have to hit on them. Curious they didn't want Mayfield and only take two first round picks instead of three. Baker is better than the garbage they're going to have at qb this year. They could be planning on  a tank-a-thon to get the #1 overall pick in 2023.

Tom, the Browns have entered the realm of high priced QBs. When you have one player eating up that much cap, you have to trade or cut talented players.  Chiefs- Honey Badger and Hill,  Packers- Adams, & the Rams couldn't pay Von Miller. It's why I'm concerned the Browns aren't going to be able to afford Denzel Ward's asking price next year. Though reports are Berry has shrewdly been able to roll some cap room into next year. One way or another, Baker's $18 million will be off the  books too. 

@orion said:

Yup.  I'm sure the media is hoping there's grand jury hearing after hearing....so they can keep reporting on it.  

In his press conference he said he'd never disrespected a woman.  So, I expect that some disrespected  woman will be coming forward very shortly.  Perhaps 243 of them wanting a million each.

I don't remember reading/hearing Watson was doing any of this back at Clemson?  As others have mentioned, nobody heard anything about this pattern until right around the time Watson informed the Texans he wanted out.  We're all looking at as to how Watson has benefitted from the trade; but Houston has created an ideal opportunity in the draft with all the 1st round picks and other selections they're getting.  With the rookie salary cap, that should promote a much healthier cap to manage if they nail some high round picks. We'll probably never really know to what extent the Houston FO/Owner played dirty pool (if any) behind the scenes.

@hoorta said:

I've heard La Grange a couple hundred times, and until now, never realized "what they were talkin' about".

I guarantee all Aggies at the then all male school of that era knew exactly what the song was about. There is a book by Jayme Blascheke entitled, "Inside the Chicken Ranch: The Definitive Account of the Best Little Whorehouse". I may have to order a copy ?.

@hoorta said:

And IIRC, Grand Jury proceedings aren't a matter of public record? 

No.  They are usually closed or sealed hearings. 

GJ hearings totally favor the prosecution. The True Bill pass through is probably 98%.  To not get through is pretty telling IMO.

@hoorta said:

And IIRC, Grand Jury proceedings aren't a matter of public record? 

YES  Mr Hoorta in most all cases Grand Juries are secret with some exceptions. 

NOTE !  I am not an attorney, I do not have a JD degree.  I have a BSBA and MBA majoring in Industrial Management and my MBA is Management and Finance.   My law expertise is in Business Law dealing almost exclusively with Conrtracts, Labor Law, Labor Legislation,  etc.   I do have a lot of respect for those who specialize in judicial law.

Now that that is clear, I do find this all quite interesting and something that often comes up in the news.  

A few facts about juries :

From Britannica Law .......Witnesses normally have no right to have an attorney present in the room with them when they appear before a grand jury.  The proceedings are secret and informal, although the court may lift secrecy in the interests of justice.

In the federal court system and in many U.S. states, the proceedings must be recorded, except for the deliberation and voting by the jurors. Minutes of the proceedings are usually available to the prosecutor and the court and sometimes are available to the accused......

A trial jury   also known as a petit jury, decides whether the defendant committed the crime as charged in a criminal case, or whether the defendant injured the plaintiff in a civil case. 

• Consists of 6-12 people.
• Trials are generally public, but jury deliberations are private.
• Defendants have the right to appear, testify, and call witnesses on their behalf.
• Final outcome is a verdict, in favor of plaintiff or defendant in a civil case, or guilty/not guilty in a criminal case.

Grand Jury

A grand jury is presented with evidence from the U.S. attorney, the prosecutor in federal criminal cases. The grand jury determines whether there is “probable cause” to believe the individual has committed a crime and should be put on trial. If the grand jury determines there is enough evidence, an indictment will be issued against the defendant. 

• Consists of 16-23 people.
• Grand jury proceedings are not open to the public.
• Defendants and their attorneys do not have the right to appear before the grand jury.

@hish747 said:

Minor correction. That document is Watson's answer in one of the civil filings, not the grand jury.

And IIRC, Grand Jury proceedings aren't a matter of public record? 

@texasag1969 said:

The song La Grange is all about it, "they gotta lot a nice girls there."

And I can personally attest it was not shack, but a real house with many rooms and a quarter jukebox. LOL!??

I've heard La Grange a couple hundred times, and until now, never realized "what they were talkin' about".

@diehardbrownsfan said:

I can see you miss the good ole days in Saigon.??

@jbluhm86 said:

For those interested, here is documents from Watson's grand jury hearing:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20619132-deshaun-watson-original-answer

I'm open to pursue a case against him if there's evidence to point in that direction, but from my own interpretation of facts presented, it seems like Watson is being railroaded by these women, and this seems to be a money grab.

Minor correction. That document is Watson's answer in one of the civil filings, not the grand jury.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20619132-deshaun-watson-original-answer

I'm open to pursue a case against him if there's evidence to point in that direction, but from my own interpretation of facts presented, it seems like Watson is being railroaded by these women, and this seems to be a money grab.

@secondwave said:

when the second grand jury chose not to indict him. People were disappointed. This is all bizarre.

Yup.  I'm sure the media is hoping there's grand jury hearing after hearing....so they can keep reporting on it.  

In his press conference he said he'd never disrespected a woman.  So, I expect that some disrespected  woman will be coming forward very shortly.  Perhaps 243 of them wanting a million each.

Glad to see Watson wasn't indicted.

@osiris said:

The media prays at the alter of the court of public opinion. Since public opinion assumes guilt until proven innocent, anyone who defends DW will suffer. Suffering for the media means less clicks, less views, and less money. I have not seen a single person in the media reference Buzzbee's ties to McNair or even mention any of the inconsistencies in the prosecution's cases. 

MeToo, I mean neither have I. 

@secondwave said:

I love that Deshaun isn't settling any of the civil cases. He's gonna fight em all and maintain his innocence. Quite frankly, the way the media is covering all of this is disgusting. Speaking as though he were guilty, and even when the second grand jury chose not to indict him. People were disappointed. This is all bizarre.

The media prays at the alter of the court of public opinion. Since public opinion assumes guilt until proven innocent, anyone who defends DW will suffer. Suffering for the media means less clicks, less views, and less money. I have not seen a single person in the media reference Buzzbee's ties to McNair or even mention any of the inconsistencies in the prosecution's cases. 

@unsympathetic said:

Friends don't let friends watch either Lord Tuck Tuck or Rachel the Useless.

Thank you Sweet Baby Jesus that I have no idea who either of these people are. Too bad I'm not in the vast majority.  

@sdbacker80 said:

Of course, The Media plays the role 

Don't forget that 99% of what is often categorized as Media is actually entertainment.  Friends don't let friends watch either Lord Tuck Tuck or Rachel the Useless.

"Entertainment" is how they skate around slander/libel laws -- "Reasonable Viewers Watch My Show With An Appropriate Amount Of Skepticism"

@secondwave said:

I love that Deshaun isn't settling any of the civil cases. He's gonna fight em all and maintain his innocence. Quite frankly, the way the media is covering all of this is disgusting. Speaking as though he were guilty, and even when the second grand jury chose not to indict him. People were disappointed. This is all bizarre.

No different than other legal matters…When someone is arrested or a complaint is filed against someone…the snap judgement is…that certain someone did it.
 

Of course, The Media plays the role of spoon feeding a large segment of the population that can’t or will not do proper fact finding.  But The media does the sloppy quick job of fact finding in haste to break stories.  

@5150k9 said:

Being a retired Police Officer and Detective, the grand jury process is exclusively presented by the prosecution and the there is no defense testimony. Usually the grand jury process is an easier way to get charges filed unlike a preliminary hearing where most evidence(witness testimony) is presented and the defense also presents their case and  a judge decides. So that should tell you a lot. 

Yes, that was the entire point of my original post. Just how biased in favor of getting an indictment the whole process is. I was just confirming with Unsympathetic that his experience was consistent with that and that the prosecutor didn't say something like although these "victims" claim this assault, we also have this account where this "victim" said to a family member "I'm going to frame Deshaun." The prosecutor would be required to disclose such exculpatory evidence to the defendant in the actual criminal proceeding.