@sdbacker80 said:

Not even close.  I couldn’t stand being without football for three seasons regardless of the product…and then getting a pile of crap in the expansion draft…being a laughing stock to start and watching Modell win a Super Bowl.  If Jimmy moves the team I’ll change my tune and then we can talk. 

If Jimmuh moves the team... As much as I would hate to... Id follow the bungles...

@westside-steve said:

To tell you the truth Jimmy Haslam makes me miss the guy more everyday.

WSS

Not even close.  I couldn’t stand being without football for three seasons regardless of the product…and then getting a pile of crap in the expansion draft…being a laughing stock to start and watching Modell win a Super Bowl.  If Jimmy moves the team I’ll change my tune and then we can talk. 

@orion said:

Couch got screwed.  They drafted KJ instead of a LT (or good OLineman of some sort).  He got beat to shit.  He may have been a good player....but after he was drafted, when they had that QB skills challenge thing that they used to do, with the targets, some of 'em going across the field.....Couch did lousy.  He hardly ever hit a target. 

3rd and 7s with Couch throwing behind Kevin Johnson running a slant, so KJ had to stop and catch the ball and get tackled two yards short of a first down IS a memory that is still very vivid to me. 

Still, I really like Tim Couch. Good guy.

@dutch-oven said:

It's weird, I seriously can barely even remember Quinn here. Like, virtually no memories of him.

I remember a windy, Thursday night game?  I think it was a Thursday night game....and it was seconds before the half and they were somewhere just short of midfield so they tried a long pass down the sidelines.  The pass drifted about 5 yards out of bounds and Deon Sanders said, You've got to throw the ball inside the field of play.  So, there were still a few more seconds left on the clock so they tried the same play a second time....and the same thing happened, so Deon said the same thing again...but this time he sounded a little bit more like he ways saying, Maan you suck.

Couch got screwed.  They drafted KJ instead of a LT (or good OLineman of some sort).  He got beat to shit.  He may have been a good player....but after he was drafted, when they had that QB skills challenge thing that they used to do, with the targets, some of 'em going across the field.....Couch did lousy.  He hardly ever hit a target. 

@dutch-oven said:

It's such a shame, and we live so close too each other too.

I guess I'll never get to share a IPA with you! ?

I'm buying when the day comes.

??

WSS

Beer trumps just about every opinion based discussion. Unless you order a Bud Light.

@orion said:

Quinn really was pretty bad.  We've really had a knack for bad 1st round pick QB's.  Perhaps we're better off having somebody else's draft pick.

edit:  I guess technically we have Rosen on the roster...but that's only for a few more days

No. I'd venture to say that the majority Browns QB's post Tim Couch were someone else's draft pick.

@westside-steve said:

You're the guy taking a dump in your drawers because I took a shot at Jimmy Haslam so one more time with feeling blow me.

WSS

It's such a shame, and we live so close too each other too.

I guess I'll never get to share a IPA with you! ?

@orion said:

Quinn really was pretty bad.  We've really had a knack for bad 1st round pick QB's.  Perhaps we're better off having somebody else's draft pick.

edit:  I guess technically we have Rosen on the roster...but that's only for a few more days

It's weird, I seriously can barely even remember Quinn here. Like, virtually no memories of him. 

The Browns Version 2.0 have not exactly hit the ball out of the proverbial park on first round QBs, for sure. Couch, Quinn, Manziel, Weeden and Mayfield isn't exactly the Murderer's Row of 1st Round Quarterbacks. 

@fy56 said:

Modell was a Jew and Jewish law traditionally forbids cremation. Good thing for him because pissing in his urn would have resulted in much more unfavorable results.

Hey, I'd be all for that...   Up close and personal.  Ya learn something new every day, I didn't know Jews are pretty against cremation.  Adds another POV on the Nazis oven roasting to ashes the Holocaust victims.  

@dutch-oven said:

My goodness, Baker talk gets your heart racin'! 

I guess you used to get this fired up over Brady Quinn back in the day. I'll give you this, Steven, Baker is waaaaaaay better than Quinn was!

You're the guy taking a dump in your drawers because I took a shot at Jimmy Haslam so one more time with feeling blow me.

WSS

@dutch-oven said:

Baker is waaaaaaay better than Quinn was!

Quinn really was pretty bad.  We've really had a knack for bad 1st round pick QB's.  Perhaps we're better off having somebody else's draft pick.

edit:  I guess technically we have Rosen on the roster...but that's only for a few more days

@westside-steve said:

He had one winning season in 10 years and also claim the record of the worst team in the National Football League. For the record despite your ridiculous obsession sure I supported keeping Mayfield and building the team but it didn't happen. And still at the end of the day neither Josh Dobbs Josh Rosen Jacoby Brissett Jimmy Garoppolo* or any other quarterback that might possibly be under center in Cleveland have brought a blight to the city and the team like DeShaun Watson and Jimmy haslam. (I'm surprised you didn't wet your pants when somebody mentioned Lenny Dawson.)

WSS

* everyone of their Christian names begins with a j. Coincidence? You decide.

My goodness, Baker talk gets your heart racin'! 

I guess you used to get this fired up over Brady Quinn back in the day. I'll give you this, Steven, Baker is waaaaaaay better than Quinn was!

@dutch-oven said:

Yes, I went off on a rant about Flying J.

Jimmy scammed trucking businesses out of millions upon millions of dollars, and got away with it, because, well... 

But I'm sure that isn't close to the sin that is moving on from Baker Mayfield. 

He had one winning season in 10 years and also claim the record of the worst team in the National Football League. For the record despite your ridiculous obsession sure I supported keeping Mayfield and building the team but it didn't happen. And still at the end of the day neither Josh Dobbs Josh Rosen Jacoby Brissett Jimmy Garoppolo* or any other quarterback that might possibly be under center in Cleveland have brought a blight to the city and the team like DeShaun Watson and Jimmy haslam. (I'm surprised you didn't wet your pants when somebody mentioned Lenny Dawson.)

WSS

* everyone of their Christian names begins with a j. Coincidence? You decide.

@westside-steve said:

Blow me. Didn't you go off on some sort of rant about Flying J? And yes in today's NFL with the guaranteed profit margin? Yes Apples to Apples I would rather have Art Modell without the spectre of bankruptcy over his left shoulder.

And speaking of preferences I'd rather Cleveland had put up the money that Baltimore put up.

WSS

Yes, I went off on a rant about Flying J.

Jimmy scammed trucking businesses out of millions upon millions of dollars, and got away with it, because, well... 

But I'm sure that isn't close to the sin that is moving on from Baker Mayfield. 

@hoorta said:

 Yeah, I saw his little dance when he won his Lombardi- that should have been Cleveland's.  However, he needed more than the $80 million from Maryland and Baltimore, and even that wasn't enough. Biscotti saved him from the embarrassment of getting foreclosed on. 

Thinking just the City of Cleveland could ever have come up with enough cash to keep Art happy isn't realistic. It would have taken massive amounts of cash from the state of Ohio and Cuyahoga county on top of that.

PS- Now we have a 23 year old stadium that was thrown together on the quick & cheap that (in NFL parlance) is due to be replaced.  And I did say way back his family should have had Art cremated. He officially got his grave pissed on.    

Modell was a Jew and Jewish law traditionally forbids cremation. Good thing for him because pissing in his urn would have resulted in much more unfavorable results.

@westside-steve said:

First of all I am by no means campaigning to put Art In the Hall of fame. In classical theater it's called the tragic flaw in which if the character commits an offense that cannot be forgiven he can't live at the end of the play. Moving the team was the tragic flaw. That again had a perfect world city council the mayor Etc should have ponied up what was necessary like Baltimore did and the league should have told him to sell to Al Lerner. But they didn't

But in the same breath I can still say fuck Jimmy Haslam. 

I don't think it's possible to lose money in today's NFL. Art Modell lived in a different era.

WSS

I'm sure you remember back in the days when signs were allowed in the stadium... "JUMP ART, AND LAND ON BILL". 

Modell's era wasn't all that different Steve.. Already said Artie was getting a ton of revenue from the old stadium. Was offered to be a part of Gateway, and he turned it down. In the world of finance, Artie is a classic case of over extending yourself.  Getting out the handy inflation calculator Artie bought the Browns for around $2.5 million (in today's dollars) put up around $625k of his own money, and financed the rest.  Instead of retiring his debt, Modell just kept on keeping on taking out ever bigger and bigger loans against the wildly increasing value of NFL franchises. It caught up with him in the end.  

@hoorta said:

" He officially got his grave pissed on"  

Deservedly so!

@fy56 said:

He did retire a hero, in Baltimore, and with a Lombardi.

He didn't need to stay in Cleveland for that.

 Yeah, I saw his little dance when he won his Lombardi- that should have been Cleveland's.  However, he needed more than the $80 million from Maryland and Baltimore, and even that wasn't enough. Biscotti saved him from the embarrassment of getting foreclosed on. 

Thinking just the City of Cleveland could ever have come up with enough cash to keep Art happy isn't realistic. It would have taken massive amounts of cash from the state of Ohio and Cuyahoga county on top of that.

PS- Now we have a 23 year old stadium that was thrown together on the quick & cheap that (in NFL parlance) is due to be replaced.  And I did say way back his family should have had Art cremated. He officially got his grave pissed on.    

@hoorta said:

Fact is Steve, Modell never had enough... Just kept on refinancing those loans until he didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on them. "Sorry Art you're not rich enough to own an NFL team anymore."  

And stop kissing that traitors ass...  He had the original sweetheart deal... Rent at the Stadium for a Buck a year, and all the concession money.  Could have sold out to Lerner, and retired a hero... Wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' (now dead) kid.  Karma caught up with him.  If he meant well, then so does Haslam.  

He did retire a hero, in Baltimore, and with a Lombardi.

He didn't need to stay in Cleveland for that.

@dutch-oven said:

This hatred of Haslam from you seems to come from solely the Browns moving on from Baker Mayfield. 

Now you'd prefer the owner who actually moved the Browns out of Cleveland? 

My goodness, that's a strong take. 

Blow me. Didn't you go off on some sort of rant about Flying J? And yes in today's NFL with the guaranteed profit margin? Yes Apples to Apples I would rather have Art Modell without the spectre of bankruptcy over his left shoulder.

And speaking of preferences I'd rather Cleveland had put up the money that Baltimore put up.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

But in the same breath I can still say fuck Jimmy Haslam. 

This hatred of Haslam from you seems to come from solely the Browns moving on from Baker Mayfield. 

Now you'd prefer the owner who actually moved the Browns out of Cleveland? 

My goodness, that's a strong take. 

@hoorta said:

Fact is Steve, Modell never had enough... Just kept on refinancing those loans until he didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on them. "Sorry Art you're not rich enough to own an NFL team anymore."  

And stop kissing that traitors ass...  He had the original sweetheart deal... Rent at the Stadium for a Buck a year, and all the concession money.  Could have sold out to Lerner, and retired a hero... Wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' (now dead) kid.  Karma caught up with him.  If he meant well, then so does Haslam.  

First of all I am by no means campaigning to put Art In the Hall of fame. In classical theater it's called the tragic flaw in which if the character commits an offense that cannot be forgiven he can't live at the end of the play. Moving the team was the tragic flaw. That again had a perfect world city council the mayor Etc should have ponied up what was necessary like Baltimore did and the league should have told him to sell to Al Lerner. But they didn't

But in the same breath I can still say fuck Jimmy Haslam. 

I don't think it's possible to lose money in today's NFL. Art Modell lived in a different era.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

F****** Haslam is flush with money. If art had that much dough back in the day he never would have gone bankrupt and had to move or sell.

WSS

Fact is Steve, Modell never had enough... Just kept on refinancing those loans until he didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on them. "Sorry Art you're not rich enough to own an NFL team anymore."  

And stop kissing that traitors ass...  He had the original sweetheart deal... Rent at the Stadium for a Buck a year, and all the concession money.  Could have sold out to Lerner, and retired a hero... Wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' (now dead) kid.  Karma caught up with him.  If he meant well, then so does Haslam.  

@dutch-oven said:

The NFL literally prints money, and that dumbass Art Modell still went broke. 

Art thought he got a sweetheart deal in Baltimore, and it only took a couple of years before he sold it to Bisciotti.

You could give Art the goose that shits the golden egg, and he would kill it.