@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

I was in the sun, thanks for watching my back

so you think about what 5-6 plays cost us are 3 loss's 

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Sickening

you do realize you are posting in last weeks game day thread 

@tiamat63 said:

 Don't forget, the large part of that increase was due to the Bucks losing Vita Vea in week 10.     While Anthony Walker isn't great, he isn't so disgustingly out of position like Phillips is.   He actually has a bit of discipline and awareness in coverage.  The real problem is he's a bit undersized and lacks any real pop on ball carriers.

 Phillips is a special teamer and backup.  Taki is almost a traditional SAM, and he gets pulled off the field quite a bit when we're in nickel and dime.  Might help to explain why his level of play looks good so far this year.    Either way, looking left to right, most of our defensive front 7 are highly flawed as individual players.  And none of those flaws allow that group to be better than the sum of their parts.

Not really he played a high snap count throughout the year.  
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SuhxNd99/gamelog/2021/

@orion said:

They put Ford on IR today so D'E is on double deck.  (D'E made a nice ST tackle against Atl)

Well, if we would've won these two stupid games that we lost there would've been an attraction.    Now, we're a deep fall-back.  

I like Stefanski.  I've liked him right from the start.  But I haven't liked the analytical approach to 4th down.  It's too aggressive.  4th and too long.  4th and our side of the field.  4th and pass up the FG.   I mean, sure, when you're behind on the scoreboard and the clock is about to get important, then you can turn up the aggression somewhat on 4th downs.  But there's a time and a place.  Coming off the field with your heads down and no points because you put together a long, sustained drive that stalled inside the 5 yard line and didn't take the 3 points, that hurts.  And it hurts worse than if you kicked the FG and missed...because then you can blame the kicker and not the offense (so much).

My philosophy:  Early in the game(s), take the points that are there for you.  Don't force things until you're forced to.  

Well said Orion!  Yes, take those points especially on the road against a team that matched up extremely well with our weaknesses on defense extremely well.  IMO, when our offense gets closer to the goal line why not QB sneak a guy that's great at it instead of the extra tenths of a second it takes to hand off to a RB sentenced to running into a crowded phone booth.  Asking a backup QB to throw the ball into a crowded end zone when you're inside 2 or 3 yard line.  Sounds like we're talking about situational football here that needs to be practiced a little bit more during the week of prep.

STs needs situational football at practice too.  It could even be something as silly as getting 11 people that are supposed to be on a specified unit.  

Defense definitely needs situational football practice beginning with pre-snap reads in tandem with down and distances (and the opponent's tendencies).  The 2 highest paid guys on our Dline are injured and won't be anywhere close to 100% if they play this week. 

You have your reasons for liking Stefanski and I'm sure you can defend them.  The thing I really wish he'd do is empower his OC to do all the duties of an OC.  Again, we won a playoff game scoring 48 points when Van Pelt was the OC that called the plays.  Adversity is here and getting Stefanski to oversee all 3 phases instead of mostly focusing on his play-calling duties would change a lot of minds for the better about him IMO.  

- Is it just me, or are defenses playing more 2 high even on early downs?  I could swear most of these coordinators are working with a ton more cover 4.    Found this when I went looking for statistical answers.

Rates of Cover-1 man have dropped to 19.8% [in 2022] from a four-year average of 26.5%. Schemes with multiple deep safeties have jumped, including Cover-2 zone (up to 13.8% usage in 2022 from a four-year average of 11.2%) and Quarters (up to 14.7% usage in 2022 from a four-year average of 11.4%).

Well then, that's certainly something. 

@gumby73 said:

was expecting Denver to make a offer on D'Ernest Johnson this week..

They put Ford on IR today so D'E is on double deck.  (D'E made a nice ST tackle against Atl)

@flugel said:

We could really use a man named Suh on our IDL right now - but what's the attraction for him here?

Well, if we would've won these two stupid games that we lost there would've been an attraction.    Now, we're a deep fall-back.  

I like Stefanski.  I've liked him right from the start.  But I haven't liked the analytical approach to 4th down.  It's too aggressive.  4th and too long.  4th and our side of the field.  4th and pass up the FG.   I mean, sure, when you're behind on the scoreboard and the clock is about to get important, then you can turn up the aggression somewhat on 4th downs.  But there's a time and a place.  Coming off the field with your heads down and no points because you put together a long, sustained drive that stalled inside the 5 yard line and didn't take the 3 points, that hurts.  And it hurts worse than if you kicked the FG and missed...because then you can blame the kicker and not the offense (so much).

My philosophy:  Early in the game, take the points that are there for you.  Don't force things until you're forced to.  

@flugel said:

I haven't heard that and I live in Tampa and listen to a lot of sports radio here.  We could really use a man named Suh on our IDL right now - but what's the attraction for him here?

Callie Brownson?

@flugel said:

I think our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

 Flugel wins the coaching aftermath of the week ^^  ?

Now can we talk about ST coach Mike Priefer?  Choice of Ronnie Harrison as a gunner? Does he know to let nice punts roll to the goal-line? ?

edit-- RB/KR J.Ford to IR- https://www.brownszone.com/2022/10/04/rookie-jerome-ford-placed-on-ir-with-ankle-injury/

@tiamat63 said:

  There are no real short term FA answers.  That's why I've turned my attention to trades and the draft.

was expecting Denver to make a offer on D'Ernest Johnson this week.. We missed on Denver's DT DJ Jones as a FA from 9'ers.. DJ's locked up in Denver 4 years.. A green dot LB'er in Denver? Not worth giving up DJ, not knowing Hunt's where about's next season 

Andrew Berry's roll over cap saving plan, I'm not a fan of (like bringing Drew Forbes back/ was a real need?).. but the Ravens keep spending it  

@jrb12711 said:

allegedly the Browns were on his list of teams to join. Could be wrong, too, but I would cast doubt a month into not being employed he's being super picky unless it's truly a ring chasing thing.

Something's gotta give though, that's for sure. I get you can't polish a turd but it's brutal to watch.

I haven't heard that and I live in Tampa and listen to a lot of sports radio here.  We could really use a man named Suh on our IDL right now - but what's the attraction for him here?

@sdbacker80 said:

I was listening to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller not too long they mentioned Suh’s average snap count was actually pretty high just last year (I want to say in the 40s). 

He’s good for a couple splash plays, a personal foul but at least he might keep a backer clean more often than not.

But he ain’t coming here but it wouldn’t surprise me if our FO and Coaches said no anyway. 
 

I mentioned him before Eddie Goldman…but he apparently retired. Does he want to come back?  And I’ll admit and moving away from our line and to our backers.  I thought Anthony Walker was pretty overrated…I think we miss him a lot I don’t think Philips is the guy at least not full time. 
 

 Don't forget, the large part of that increase was due to the Bucks losing Vita Vea in week 10.     While Anthony Walker isn't great, he isn't so disgustingly out of position like Phillips is.   He actually has a bit of discipline and awareness in coverage.  The real problem is he's a bit undersized and lacks any real pop on ball carriers.

 Phillips is a special teamer and backup.  Taki is almost a traditional SAM, and he gets pulled off the field quite a bit when we're in nickel and dime.  Might help to explain why his level of play looks good so far this year.    Either way, looking left to right, most of our defensive front 7 are highly flawed as individual players.  And none of those flaws allow that group to be better than the sum of their parts.

@tiamat63 said:

 I would have no reason to believe it isn't for a ring chase.  He's already got one, not much point in beating up your body further unless you're in the hunt for a 2nd. 

 Even then it's still barely a stop gap option.  He'd be coming in on a pitch count, which means fewer snaps as a pass rusher - something he's been pretty good at from the IDL.     Increase his snap count and that likely means you put even more wear and tear on him should you make a playoff push.  

There are no real short term FA answers.  That's why I've turned my attention to trades and the draft.

I was listening to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller not too long they mentioned Suh’s average snap count was actually pretty high just last year (I want to say in the 40s). 

He’s good for a couple splash plays, a personal foul but at least he might keep a backer clean more often than not.

But he ain’t coming here but it wouldn’t surprise me if our FO and Coaches said no anyway. 
 

I mentioned him before Eddie Goldman…but he apparently retired. Does he want to come back?  And I’ll admit and moving away from our line and to our backers.  I thought Anthony Walker was pretty overrated…I think we miss him a lot I don’t think Philips is the guy at least not full time. 
 

@jrb12711 said:

allegedly the Browns were on his list of teams to join. Could be wrong, too, but I would cast doubt a month into not being employed he's being super picky unless it's truly a ring chasing thing.

Something's gotta give though, that's for sure. I get you can't polish a turd but it's brutal to watch.

 I would have no reason to believe it isn't for a ring chase.  He's already got one, not much point in beating up your body further unless you're in the hunt for a 2nd. 

 Even then it's still barely a stop gap option.  He'd be coming in on a pitch count, which means fewer snaps as a pass rusher - something he's been pretty good at from the IDL.     Increase his snap count and that likely means you put even more wear and tear on him should you make a playoff push.  

There are no real short term FA answers.  That's why I've turned my attention to trades and the draft.

@flugel said:

Unfortunately, most of the good coaching you have seen was from the 2 teams that weren't supposed to beat the Browns.

I think our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

Well then it's clear he needs a gig as an OC... He's too cunty to be a HC...

@flugel said:

Unfortunately, most of the good coaching you have seen was from the 2 teams that weren't supposed to beat the Browns.

I KNOW our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

Fixed it for you. 
 

We still needs Jacob Phillips to play better.  Other than a big stop towards the end of the game- what I saw When he was clean He was sniffing in the wrong hole and over pursuing stuff all day.

Taki needs to learn how to shed blockers better.  I hope we limit his snap count more. 

Here’s my complaint before you all get your panties in wad that I don’t like Joe Woods.  I would move JOK all around and I would send him after the QB more…but I think we have to stop the run much better first to get to some of those 2nd and 3rd and longs.

Can we all admit we play better man coverage until we see the Ravens we should probably play it more?

Im not wasting anymore key strokes this week on this team.

Go Tribe/Guards. go Buckeyes 

@tiamat63 said:

 That's assuming Suh wants to join this team.  Remember, he has a pick on when and where he wishes to play.   

Edit: I'm keeping an eye for out going, lame duck type coaching staffs and undervalued players on those types of teams. 

 If I'm Andrew Berry, I'm paying attention to the situation in Carolina.  Because they have depth at IDL and Bravvion Roy would be available in an early fire sale.

allegedly the Browns were on his list of teams to join. Could be wrong, too, but I would cast doubt a month into not being employed he's being super picky unless it's truly a ring chasing thing.

Something's gotta give though, that's for sure. I get you can't polish a turd but it's brutal to watch.

@jrb12711 said:

Normally I'm not the "go find veterans" a month into the season, but our DT are literally playing at the worst clips (per PFF) in the NFL. There's literally no way a dude like Suh could be worse, why not take a low risk?

 That's assuming Suh wants to join this team.  Remember, he has a pick on when and where he wishes to play.   

Edit: I'm keeping an eye for out going, lame duck type coaching staffs and undervalued players on those types of teams. 

 If I'm Andrew Berry, I'm paying attention to the situation in Carolina.  Because they have depth at IDL and Bravvion Roy would be available in an early fire sale.

@tiamat63 said:

 I'm likely not going to go back and read responses from this thread.  But looking at stat lines from avg yards carried per, 3rd down conversions, drive totals, etc etc.   It really speaks to where this team is weakest.

QB

DL.  

Where were the Browns worst area's today? (and every week)

Avg depth of target throws (QB)

YPC surrendered and explosive runs given up.   (DL)

 You really don't have to say anything more than that.   I just don't understand some of the bitching when the flaws of this team are evident and easily exploitable.    If you believed or were lead to believe this team was somehow supremely talented, then I don't know whose ass your head was up this entire time then?    Because it sure wasn't mine. 

Normally I'm not the "go find veterans" a month into the season, but our DT are literally playing at the worst clips (per PFF) in the NFL. There's literally no way a dude like Suh could be worse, why not take a low risk?

@canton-dawg said:

Terry Pluto has some news for you. .

I like Pluto and usually agree with his thinking.

...and he told it like it was for our defense.  With backup running backs nobody's heard of, they smashed the ball right down our throats for scores for the whole of the 4th quarter.  I was watching their second drive down our throats when I found myself thinking like a basketball coach, "Call Time Out!"   Ya know?  Just to stop the run?  Huddle up on the sidelines and tell one another, THEY'RE GONNA RUN THE BALL!  TACKLE HIM!      But sadly, our DLinemen were no match for the Falcons OL.   

And 'we knew' that the Falcons were the 5th best running team in the league before the game.  That's not just about the RB's, it says something about the OL's run blocking abilities.  I was actually quite surprised that they passed so much earlier in the game.....but they adjusted that at halftime.  Their running abilities and our decimated front 7 was a baaad  matchup.   Our PS RB John Kelly would've torn us up from Atlanta's backfield.  

@browns149 said:

They just don’t seem to have good coaching ANYWHERE

Unfortunately, most of the good coaching you have seen was from the 2 teams that weren't supposed to beat the Browns.

I think our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...