@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

I don't mean to piss on the analytics, but I haven't seen any team that looks unbeatable to the Browns.

Proper coaching and 4-0 would be a reality.

If the Browns don't suffer the familiar dumb penalties, shy away from play action in cherry picking situations, and don't play soft defense they should send the Chargers back home with a bolt up their ass.

Nobody has outplayed, stuffed or stifled the Browns. The Browns fucked themselves twice.

I would just like to see these fuckers play a solid 60 minutes for once.

The Chargers analyzed giving the Browns the game at the end.. Until York misses his 2nd long FG.    

Embarrassing. 

@hoorta said:

Clowney and Garrett both "limited" today at practice, so there's faint hope they can play Sunday...  

Then we lose, because the rest of the defense plays like little girls collecting a check. 

@flugel said:

Right or wrong, thanks for letting me vent...

It's all really one just big mental support group anyway bubs.   Browns anonymous.

@tiamat63 said:

 I highly doubt that a mind like Van Pelt isn't heavily involved in not only the opening drive(s) scripting, but play calls throughout the game as well.   Have to remember, those headsets are on and the coaching staff is communicating.   If Van Pelt and the QA see something, I have every belief they have Stef's ear on what they can call to counter.

He's still on a leash he shouldn't be on in my opinion. We have some very good coaches on our offense.  If anything, that's the phase of football that shouldn't dominate all of our HC's time given what's unfolded on Defense and STs thus far.  They're not being well coached.  Just watch the pad heights on defense whether it's tackling or coming out of stances.  Let's just say overall, it's way easier to complain about the lack of fundamentals, mental errors and lack of discipline on defense and special teams the 1st 4 weeks.  It doesn't look like they practice situational football on those units at all to me.

Right or wrong, thanks for letting me vent...

@flugel said:

My biggest gripe with Stefanski is the 1 Coordinator (Van Pelt) I'd like him to empower more (with playcalling duties) i

 I highly doubt that a mind like Van Pelt isn't heavily involved in not only the opening drive(s) scripting, but play calls throughout the game as well.   Have to remember, those headsets are on and the coaching staff is communicating.   If Van Pelt and the QA see something, I have every belief they have Stef's ear on what they can call to counter.

@dutch-oven said:

The Browns went 1-31 over a two year stretch by design. 

There's been two years stretches where the Browns went, say, 10-22 that honestly were more painful to watch, because they were actually trying to win. 

Losing is always painful IMO but you aren't wrong there at all.

Let's look at the QBs that were available to this franchise after the 1st year of that with 1-15 football.  Patrick Mahomes and DeShaun Watson regardless of question marks some fans had about them at the time.  They would have come to us with a rookie salary cap as well.  We don't get paid with our limited research on these potential faces of a franchise. 

1 year later, while Buffalo swam against the currents of popular opinion on Josh Allen, they also new enough to have a plan inclusive of understanding growing pains come with the process.  They picked a guy they thoroughly researched knowing they could improve whatever needed to be.  

@silver-slayer said:

Stump Mitchell would be a definite keeper. 

OL Coach Bill Callahan and his Assistant Scott Peters are the best in the league IMO.  I think Alex Van Pelt is a good OC; and I'd like to see him empowered to do the type of play calling we saw from him during our playoff victory (where the Browns scored 48 points).  I think the QB Coach Drew Petzing has done a pretty good job with a career backup like Jacoby Brissett.

There's some good coaches on our offense; but it's also important to note they have some good talent to work with.

On defense, we're asking our DL Coach to Dr Frankenstein the junior varsity caliber IDL into guys that can compete.  The other issues on the book ends - is we only had both guys healthy and hunting in week 1.  It's possible we only need David Copperfield to replace DL Coach Chris Kiffin and his Assistant Jordan Thomas but I doubt it solves anything long term at all.

When you're not up to snuff upfront - it makes the job on the next tier (the LB Corps) even more difficult especially in the absence of Defensive Captain Anthony Walker.  We don't lose talent as much as we lose Walker's valuable experience in his pre-snap keys and recognition. On top of the consequences of of our IDL playing like Raggedy Ann and Andy, our LBers are tackling too high (ie: JOK recently bounced off somebody on a potential TFL).  This gets contagious to our back tier.  Anyone remember John Johnson getting lit up by Najee Harris at the 2 yard line?  

On sloppy fundamentals and a lack of situational awareness/tendencies - we can blame the coaching staff.  Having said that, is this youth football or PROFESSIONAL football?  I'm also going to blame the well paid professionals...

My biggest gripe with Stefanski is the 1 Coordinator (Van Pelt) I'd like him to empower more (with playcalling duties) isn't fully empowered as our STs Coordinator and DC.  Why?

@flugel said:

@flugel said:

Do you miss 1-31 football over a 2 year stretch?  

The Browns went 1-31 over a two year stretch by design. 

There's been two years stretches where the Browns went, say, 10-22 that honestly were more painful to watch, because they were actually trying to win. 

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Tomato tomahto.   He is fragile

Clowney's biggest football illness/injury is his heart.  He's got all the tools except passion for the game and the team he plays for.  Even when/if he shows up, he'll find the first excuse to leave the game.  He's getting paid either way.  

People can pretend coaching solves this issue but it doesn't.  People can also pretend all we have to do is fire the entire coaching staff, peanut vendors and cleaning staff.  Guess what though?  The hiring criteria, or complete lack thereof, goes right up to Jimmy Haslam.  See what kind of leadership he hired at Pilot.  He's STILL going to be the one that hires the next HC - so what is it the "fire the HC today" enthusiasts think they will be getting different this time from Jimmy?  Think about what your wishing for again.  Do you miss 1-31 football over a 2 year stretch?  

This isn't the Rooneys or Robert Kraft.  

A Head Coach  is only a symptom.  The owner is the disease.   If people don't get that - sit on Santa's lap and talk about the 1st thing that pops up. 

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Nobody has outplayed, stuffed or stifled the Browns.

You should've watched the 2nd half of the Falcons game.   That is now the blueprint.  Run the ball down our throats...because there ain't nothing we can do about it.

...now it's Off to play some chilly morning golf.  Be back at game time.  F-O-R-E!

@sdbacker80 said:

I don’t think that fair Joe has 2 1/2 years worth of work. Would the Jets game prove my point and maybe the Carolina game prove your point?

And Just tell us how aggressive Joe Woods is.  

I’d like to win with the front four…who wouldn’t but when you can’t it is time to add a guy or two and get after the QB. 

- Neither, to be fair.    The Jets game was an albatross of letting the pass rush work, while Carolina was a game that Wood's allowed the pass rush to work, but used designs he felt comfortable calling given his extensive familiarity with Baker.    He really didn't need to call a single additional pressure that game, but as we saw - he did.    

- I wouldn't call it 'aggressive'.  I'd call it calculated, or silent rage.   I don't see him bringing extra bodies when the Dline wins more than they lose in pass rush snaps, baring outlier examples (such as CAR) and he adjusted quite well against ATL... for him.

- In the 1st half, the Browns had a blitz rate of 28.57%.    Last years league average was 23%.    

- In the first 3 drives, the Browns showed a +1 box count against ATL over 3/4 of the time.  That includes facing the Falcons 11 personnel when the field shrank with 30 yards.

 This helps us find answers on why the available space vs the Browns on early downs.    Most offenses, even with Marcus Mariota at QB, teams aren't going to run head first into a +1 box count unless they can absolutely own the LoS.  In the dirty birds case, they can and did.   But they weren't fully aware of that until later in the game.  Plus, they were getting chunk plays early, but at the expense of the few times the Browns created a couple Havoc plays (a couple big TFL in the 1st half)   So why not go ball action early against a defense that not only commits bodies to the running game, but also has problems with their IDL AND LB's?    It's a win-win for opposing offenses and a lose-lose for the Browns.  Because these coaches are timid on exposing the secondary by removing numbers in the passing game, being that we've had some piss poor communication at times.  But we can't just sit back on our heels and not create positive numbers in the running game because of our Dline weakness.    

 Circles back around to what I said last April, and what I said just after this previous draft.  The lifecycle of this defense is not good.   Bad Dline ---> commit numbers from the secondary ---> more chances to be beat (risk/reward) ---->  DB's look spotty because of it.   Run fits and defense suffers, especially in the later portions of games because we don't have the talent or depth to go punch for punch the entire 60 minutes. --- > defensive breakdowns when things get grimey.

@flugel said:

I could be wrong here - but I don't ever get the sense Clowney cares enough to play if he's only 75-80%.  I hope he proves me wrong.   

He's a mercenary.  Or, a Temp, in workplace terms.  They're among the first to call in sick.  

This is why I liked Sheldon Richardson so much.  He played hurt, and played well while hurt.  But....he was too much money.  So, we're saving money on the interior of the DLine.  And the Falcons approve of that investment strategy.  

@nickers said:

That has been his career in a nut shell , Lar... You love the talent... You just wish his availability was better than what it's been...

Sometimes I wonder if Clowney looks at the situation wherever he's at and thinks to himself "does this team really deserve me putting it all on the line every week or playing though injuries?"  This is bad timing; but if he had TJ Watt's football heart - he could have been one of the best ever.  I would have said "inner chest" but Watt has a torn pectoral sidelining him until he returns before it's healed.  Like Watt, Myles Garrett also works his tail off conditioning himself.  When guys put that kind of work in  - they'll do anything they can to get back on the field even if they're playing at 75-80% of their ability.  I could be wrong here - but I don't ever get the sense Clowney cares enough to play if he's only 75-80%.  I hope he proves me wrong.   

@tiamat63 said:

 Before I give you the numbers, I want to ask - what is "enough", in your mind? 

 Let's just use the ATL game in a vaccuum being that we lost our pass rush for the first time this season then. 

I don’t think that fair Joe has 2 1/2 years worth of work. Would the Jets game prove my point and maybe the Carolina game prove your point?

And Just tell us how aggressive Joe Woods is.  

I’d like to win with the front four…who wouldn’t but when you can’t it is time to add a guy or two and get after the QB. 

Chargers

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Clowney is Coutney Brown

Brown was really good!  Then he got that first injury.  And he was never really good again.  Clowney gets hurt every year and misses games.  A substantial negative.  But he usually gets back on the field where he still plays at quite a high level.  He's a mercenary that we have to replace, and that we're lucky to have.  Especially in light of the current condition of the front 7. 

@nickers said:

I just get visions of Justin Herbert carving up Joe Woods Soft Zone D...

Yeah... that requires a pass rush.  And if you're not getting one, you have to man up and blitz yourself a pass rush.

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Clowney is Coutney Brown

Not exactly Tom. If you want to say he's injury prone, you're 100% correct.  Checking, in his 9 seasons, he's only played in every game once. The difference between him and Courtney is when Clowney is healthy enough to play he's actually pretty decent. Unlike "soft" Brown.  

Im curious why our best player never sees the field during crunch time?

@sdbacker80 said:

I had some bourbon up my nose when I read…”Chunt gone wild”

Opps!    

failed to mention most of my tape scouting includes some mixture of Bacardi's ? 

As soon as I watched the Pierce TD replay?  twas my 1st voice reaction after.. Chunt's going to go wild

Top 3 Jim Donovan's can't says... More surprised I beat Flugel to using it 

Good Day gents! Beautiful fall day for some grandson doubleheader baseball 

We will need a better defensive effort, than our last one verse the Steelers.. No better time to find it than Sunday