@flugel said:

Well done!  The good news for the secondary is opponents are finding running on our front 7 is a bigger gimme than throwing on us. Unfortunately the LBers and guys in the secondary are tackling way too high way too frequently so there's a pad height issue with them as well.

Having said all that, we do need some respite from the pad height talk. 

It's been very disappointing on the defensive side if the ball.  We'll just have to see what happens in the last 12 games... 

Well you offered a good solution and I’ll take it a step further.  Kick Myles inside on some obvious run downs or earlier downs and throw Thomas and/or Rochell outside who are seemingly playing a littler better than some of the interior guys.  Maybe JOK more on some designed run blitzes.  Or you have safeties that are out of place pointing fingers maybe they are better attacking in those circumstances 

This is a time to shake things up. 

We’ve drafted some pretty decent man coverage type guys.  We probably need to park ourselves in that coverage most of the time or at least when it’s nut cutting time and we need a play.   And then of course pray when we play a QB like Lamar who will exploit that type of coverage.

@sdbacker80 said:

There are too many issues with this team and where we are talented we aren’t performing well in those spots.  

I could spend 90% of the time harping on Jordan Elliot’s non development.  Tommy T just being Tommy T. Taven being out.  Winfrey playing like an inconsistent rookie but then I gotta think about our 100M corner that has played well once this year.  Our franchise defensive end that didn’t appear because on an off the field issue.  Our LBs in bad shape we had to bring one in that will play right away, our prized free agent safety that gets hit with stupid penalties and loses WRs with regularity.  The other safety who blew one game for us.  The list goes on.

Time to pull the plug on 2022

Well done!  The good news for the secondary is opponents are finding running on our front 7 is a bigger gimme than throwing on us. Unfortunately the LBers and guys in the secondary are tackling way too high way too frequently so there's a pad height issue with them as well.

Having said all that, we do need some respite from the pad height talk. 

It's been very disappointing on the defensive side if the ball.  We'll just have to see what happens in the last 12 games... 

@flugel said:

It's a biggest reason the Browns lost 2 consecutive games to teams with their season high rushing performances.  When you can impose your will that easily, "thy will be done and so are the Browns."  It's so bad the Falcons didn't even waste time throwing the ball.  They ran 14 plays in a row and were rewarded with 174 yards rushing.  This week, Austin Ekeler had his season high of 173 yards rushing with 10.8 yard per carry 1 TD rushing and 1 TD receiving.  

We gotta wake that horse above back-up to defend himself just like the Browns gotta do. 

There are too many issues with this team and where we are talented we aren’t performing well in those spots.  

I could spend 90% of the time harping on Jordan Elliot’s non development.  Tommy T just being Tommy T. Taven being out.  Winfrey playing like an inconsistent rookie but then I gotta think about our 100M corner that has played well once this year.  Our franchise defensive end that didn’t appear because on an off the field issue.  Our LBs in bad shape we had to bring one in that will play right away, our prized free agent safety that gets hit with stupid penalties and loses WRs with regularity.  The other safety who blew one game for us.  The list goes on.

Time to pull the plug on 2022

@sdbacker80 said:

IDL talk.

It's a biggest reason the Browns lost 2 consecutive games to teams with their season high rushing performances.  When you can impose your will that easily, "thy will be done and so are the Browns."  It's so bad the Falcons didn't even waste time throwing the ball.  They ran 14 plays in a row and were rewarded with 174 yards rushing.  This week, Austin Ekeler had his season high of 173 yards rushing with 10.8 yard per carry 1 TD rushing and 1 TD receiving.  

We gotta wake that horse above back-up to defend himself just like the Browns gotta do. 

@tiamat63 said:

Re: Jones - fly's around and is a pretty steady tackler.  Still a bit undersized - 6'1 225lbs.    But at this point I think we have Gene Chizik making the calls on our LB room.

Funny you say that, giving the LAC game another go over before the coaches film drops.

Aside from Perrion being so-so at times (expected) the rest of the pad level from the IDL wasn't all that bad.   They just uhh... pretty much flat out suck.  

? for the part in bold!  I appreciate that.  I still see enough of the high pad heights to bring it up. EDIT: I know you like to show pictures to back your statements (which I appreciate) and you probably even have good examples early on in the Chargers game when the Browns went up 14-3.  It just needs to be way more consistent as the game unfolds.  The high pad heights aren't just exclusive to coming out of stances up front, when the NFL Channel and other networks showed highlights of Atlanta and the Chargers running all over the Browns - the Browns had a lot of guys in all different position groups showing up on those videos tackling way too high.  I can't even tell you how often I see Delpit trying to tackle people around the shoulder pads.  

I remember being at a football camp next to a lake in Upstate NY way back when I was heading into my freshman year in high school.  We stayed there a week.  Anyway, one of the coaches (Coach Lacona) brought film of a game his team won after erasing an early deficit.  What happened was in the beginning they got behind an opponent with an early adrenaline rush and a bigger line on both sides of the ball.  As the game went on, you could see Coach Lacona's team maintained the better fundamentals and the pad heights as his team started to consistently move the sticks.  He stopped the film and asked "what are you seeing at this point?"  Someone said "hands on the hips after the play."  Another said "the big boys are sucking gas."  Then he asked "anything else?"  Finally he answered himself saying, "the better conditioned team had the better pad height throughout the game.  That's what we do in our program.  We stress fundamentals and and we condition ourselves so that everyone knows they're not going to let down their teammates.  When you work hard like that you've earned the mindset there's no way your opponent will outwork you; and we keep the gas pedal to the floor."  By the end of the 4th quarter of that game, his team ended up beating the opponent something like 31-14.  

I'm a tough critic on our IDL because this level should be their dream.  There's no better opportunity than this team has for a position like DT for someone to come out of nowhere and WIN this job!   The young vets should be getting better than they are IMO. You also have to play defense with your eyes at all positions beginning with the formations you're looking at pre-snap in tandem with the down and distance.  Aside from that, opponents' tendencies on film should equip these guys with some freakin sense of awareness as to what's coming.  Football is a sport where you get out of it what you put into it especially in the trenches.  It ultimately boils down to - do you want want to be an ass kicker or an ass kickee.    When I watch our defense forfeit against the run, it's very disappointing!

@flugel said:

.  Pad heights. 

Funny you say that, giving the LAC game another go over before the coaches film drops.

Aside from Perrion being so-so at times (expected) the rest of the pad level from the IDL wasn't all that bad.   They just uhh... pretty much flat out suck.  

@neo said:

So why haven't they shored up the DL? Isn't Sue still out there?

Have Mary K ask him.

The Browns acquired Jones and a 2024 seventh-round pick in exchange for a 2024 sixth-round pick. A second-round pick out of LSU by the Falcons in 2016, Jones has been one of the most efficient tacklers in the league since his arrival and has eclipsed 100 tackles in five of the last six seasons. He's played in 85 career games with 83 starts and has amassed 652 tackles, 8.5 sacks, four forced fumbles and 11 interceptions. Jones has also scored five touchdowns in his career, including two in his rookie season, and was a Pro Bowler in 2017.

...we certainly didn't give up much for this guy.  Sure hope he helps stop the flood.

@orion said:

This is Berry showing that he's aware of the problem.

So why haven't they shored up the DL? Isn't Sue still out there?

@orion said:

This is Berry showing that he's aware of the problem.

It’s about time.

@mddawg said:

Joe Woods still won't use him properly on our path to 3-8 before DeSean starts.

We have to solve the squids upfront getting bulldozed backwards.  Some of that is talent but persistent bad habit like pad heights being too high turn an ant hill into a mountain at warped speed on us.  

Deion Jones can definitely help us especially if we can make at least some doable improvements in the IDL.  Pad heights. 

@blitzz2 said:

Nice move. Not costing us much. 

Andrew Berry "our defense is so bad it's scary". Help wanted.

Per Twitter from Pelissero, Falcons take a 12.14 dead hit this season and nobody has any charge after 2022. About 1.39 for rest of season onto Browns books.

If he's fully healed from the shoulder, looks like a good move