@ballpeen said:

I don't see us in disagreement in the big picture.  I just don't think head coaches are as involved in the off speciality as much and many think.  I don't think he is as isolated as depicted. 

I also don't think Stephanski is clueless about defense or special teams.  I just think the job of NFL head coach has changed from the days of Paul Brown and George Halas in so far as hands on in all phases.

What hasn't changed is the HC sets the tone.  If Stefanski lacks, he lacks in that.  As fans, we only get snippets, but Ski seems a little slack in that area.

Agreed.  Setting the tone starts with the week of preparation.  If you fail to prepare; then preoare to fail. If you blow off emphasis and focus on STs, you're gonna see 12 men on the field, blocked kicks/punts or holding on kickoff returns that shouldn't even be taken out of the end zone. That'll deflate things in a hurry and steam roll in a sport where momentum is important.

I agree that Stefanski isn't clueless about Defense and STs, which is why I brought up he was an All Conference DB at Penn.  The reason for doing that is because a Head Coach should offer input when any of the 3 phases aren't performing.  I'm not saying they have to be overwhelmingly invasive or totally hands-on - but "setting/re-setting the tone" can be a Bill Parcels in the ear of a Bill Belichick or a Sean Payton (his former Coordinators) about something on their unit that better change at warped speed.  It can be specific advice or he can leave that up to Coordinators to convey to their unit. I'm sure they knew what needed changing.  If you CAN'T do this - why would you even want to be a Head Coach instead of staying in your Coordinator comfort zone?

Setting the tone can also mean benching an important/popular player when actions warrant that during the week of preparation.  Stef has benched Garrett (for part of a game) and Clowney which I applaud.  

Just remember how many drafted rookies that started/contributed for Seattle and KC show us how important a draft can be for FOs that that know what they're doing.

At least we've had something to talk about before the Combines.

@flugel said:

Peens, it's okay if Stefanski gives the Offense a lot of attention especially considering the situations the last 2 years at the QB position.

Having said that, he's the Head Coach that should also know what's going on with the other 2 phases of the game each week they game plan for an opponent.  That means sitting in on the meetings Coordinators and Coaches in each phase have with their position groups. Or,  just meeting with the Coordinators about the game plans if the 1st option isn't doable.  Parcels did this when he had Coaches like Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin and Sean Payton.  However, I'm sure the 85 Bears didn't work that traditional way when they had 2 alphas in 1 litter with Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka.  That could also be why such a talented defense and team overall only won 1 Super Bowl in spite of such a collection of talent. 

Stefanski was an All Conference DB at Penn (in the Ivy League) so I doubt he's clueless about defenses - especially if he's been an OC that looked for defensive vulnerabilities/tendencies to exploit. Now that he's a Head Coach, when our STs were penalized multiple times for having 12 men on the field or other repeatedly having other avoidable breakdowns - that all needed a Head Coach's attention/input that looked like it never received.  Meanwhile, the defense had assignment and communication breakdowns as well as key defensive players complaining.  

All that said, if those in charge of bringing in/upgrading the personnel don't get it done this off-season - they should be fired before Stefanski (or at least with him) if the Browns end up in last place again.  

I don't see us in disagreement in the big picture.  I just don't think head coaches are as involved in the off speciality as much and many think.  I don't think he is as isolated as depicted. 

I also don't think Stephanski is clueless about defense or special teams.  I just think the job of NFL head coach has changed from the days of Paul Brown and George Halas in so far as hands on in all phases.

What hasn't changed is the HC sets the tone.  If Stefanski lacks, he lacks in that.  As fans, we only get snippets, but Ski seems a little slack in that area.

@canton-dawg said:

I agree Flugs, whether you’re a fan of Dorsey or not he’s the GM that’s put more talent on this team since ‘99.

Now let’s look at things from Jimmah’s perspective. He’s got his analytics guru in Depud, he’s got his salary cap/drafting guy in AB, and he’s sunk a ton of cash in certain players (DW, Ward, Garrett, Bitonio) and for some reason this team is accumulating more losses each year. The Browns have gotten rid of the DC, and ST coach so now we have Kevin painted into a corner. I don’t think it takes a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that Stefanski is on the hot seat in ‘23. It’s not that I don’t think Kev is that bad of a HC, but I don’t think he’s that good either. He’s mediocre, and if he was a QB he would be at Baker Mayfield level. 
 

The bad thing about how I can see this playing out this upcoming season, is Stefanski gets axed and they name a “interim Head Coach”. We all know how that interim HC thing works out. Unfortunately, we will end up with a new HC but keep the same people in the FO. 

Nice job with that CD.  Eggsactly! 

Stefanski hasn't been the one needing scapegoats.  The FO needs the scapegoats.  

@ballpeen said:

I think most head coaches...for a good while now are more or less over 1 side of the ball, defer to the coordinator on the other side of the ball, then do the game management stuff and administrative things.

How long has having coordinators been a thing?  It's been since then that all new head coaches come up as a specialist on one side of the ball or the other.  I don't think anybody has been an offensive and defensive coordinator.

That said, I doubt Stefanski could even call the defense.  I doubt he is all that fluent in the language spoken on that side of the ball, and that isn't just our coach.

Now, a head coach might go to the coordinator and say we need to get more pressure, or now is the time to play safe, but I don't think they call what biltz or coverage to run.

Peens, it's okay if Stefanski gives the Offense a lot of attention especially considering the situations the last 2 years at the QB position.

Having said that, he's the Head Coach that should also know what's going on with the other 2 phases of the game each week they game plan for an opponent.  That means sitting in on the meetings Coordinators and Coaches in each phase have with their position groups. Or,  just meeting with the Coordinators about the game plans if the 1st option isn't doable.  Parcels did this when he had Coaches like Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin and Sean Payton.  However, I'm sure the 85 Bears didn't work that traditional way when they had 2 alphas in 1 litter with Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka.  That could also be why such a talented defense and team overall only won 1 Super Bowl in spite of such a collection of talent. 

Stefanski was an All Conference DB at Penn (in the Ivy League) so I doubt he's clueless about defenses - especially if he's been an OC that looked for defensive vulnerabilities/tendencies to exploit. Now that he's a Head Coach, when our STs were penalized multiple times for having 12 men on the field or other repeatedly having other avoidable breakdowns - that all needed a Head Coach's attention/input that looked like it never received.  Meanwhile, the defense had assignment and communication breakdowns as well as key defensive players complaining.  

All that said, if those in charge of bringing in/upgrading the personnel don't get it done this off-season - they should be fired before Stefanski (or at least with him) if the Browns end up in last place again.  

@flugel said:

Probably true CD.  When Kev arrived, a lot of the roster was from Dorsey's regime and he went 11-5 right?  Coach of the Year material.   He was put into a very crappy situation last year.  The 1 thing the Browns SHOULD look at is did they hire him to be more of an OC than he is a HC?  We don't know what they want from him; but his entire NFL background being only with 1 team assures us he's not exactly Andy Reid.  In 1 respect, Stef coached up the most efficient season Jacoby Brissett had as an NFL fill-in starter.  In other respects, Stefanski had zero clue that wind chills piercing 15 degrees below zero off the Lake was a bad enough day to throw that 3 passes were dropped in the end zone. 

As this roster became more and more Andrew Berry's team - the record decreased to 9-8 and then 7-10.  Now it's time to do what the Browns do every 2-3 years of bad personnel management - fire the coaches and 66% of the Coordinators with more of the fanbase wanting Stefanski gone too.  As much as Schwartz excites me - he's gonna need better gridiron chess pieces at DT or he's gonna have losing teams like Atlanta running the ball down the Browns' esophagus while the top 4 LBers on our depth chart are on IR because of the bad personnel choices starting on the IDL. 

Why is everyone giving Andrew Berry a free pass?  He's drafted 2 offensive starters (Wills & DPJ) and only 1 of them plays like a keeper (and it's not the 10th overall pick). I think we're focusing more on the symptoms than the disease.  We're not setting a gridiron chess table that allows us to be better than 7-10.  This is a very big draft.  A team like Seattle nailed the draft last year.  They made the playoffs because of how much the drafted helped their running game; which made life a lot easier for Geno Smith and the passing game.  Keep in mind, that was a team many (including me) thought would be playing the 2022 season for a shot at the 1st overall draft pick in 2023. That's how powerful the draft can be for teams that know what they're doing.  Some of their previous post season/Super Bowl teams had a lot of mid-late round picks become very productive starters/Pro Bowl players.  Because of that, they had a very healthy cap that enabled them to make the playoffs for more than just a season or 2.

If they screw up this draft, I don't think Stefanski should be the next guy fired regardless of how unpopular that statement is.  

I agree Flugs, whether you’re a fan of Dorsey or not he’s the GM that’s put more talent on this team since ‘99.

Now let’s look at things from Jimmah’s perspective. He’s got his analytics guru in Depud, he’s got his salary cap/drafting guy in AB, and he’s sunk a ton of cash in certain players (DW, Ward, Garrett, Bitonio) and for some reason this team is accumulating more losses each year. The Browns have gotten rid of the DC, and ST coach so now we have Kevin painted into a corner. I don’t think it takes a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that Stefanski is on the hot seat in ‘23. It’s not that I don’t think Kev is that bad of a HC, but I don’t think he’s that good either. He’s mediocre, and if he was a QB he would be at Baker Mayfield level. 
 

The bad thing about how I can see this playing out this upcoming season, is Stefanski gets axed and they name a “interim Head Coach”. We all know how that interim HC thing works out. Unfortunately, we will end up with a new HC but keep the same people in the FO. 

@flugel said:

Probably true CD.  When Kev arrived, a lot of the roster was from Dorsey's regime and he went 11-5 right?  Coach of the Year material.   He was put into a very crappy situation last year.  The 1 thing the Browns SHOULD look at is did they hire him to be more of an OC than he is a HC?  We don't know what they want from him; but his entire NFL background being only with 1 team assures us he's not exactly Andy Reid.  In 1 respect, Stef coached up the most efficient season Jacoby Brissett had as an NFL fill-in starter.  In other respects, Stefanski had zero clue that wind chills piercing 15 degrees below zero off the Lake was a bad enough day to throw that 3 passes were dropped in the end zone. 

As this roster became more and more Andrew Berry's team - the record decreased to 9-8 and then 7-10.  Now it's time to do what the Browns do every 2-3 years of bad personnel management - fire the coaches and 66% of the Coordinators with more of the fanbase wanting Stefanski gone too.  As much as Schwartz excites me - he's gonna need better gridiron chess pieces at DT or he's gonna have losing teams like Atlanta running the ball down the Browns' esophagus while the top 4 LBers on our depth chart are on IR because of the bad personnel choices starting on the IDL. 

Why is everyone giving Andrew Berry a free pass?  He's drafted 2 offensive starters (Wills & DPJ) and only 1 of them plays like a keeper (and it's not the 10th overall pick). I think we're focusing more on the symptoms than the disease.  We're not setting a gridiron chess table that allows us to be better than 7-10.  This is a very big draft.  A team like Seattle nailed the draft last year.  They made the playoffs because of how much the drafted helped their running game; which made life a lot easier for Geno Smith and the passing game.  Keep in mind, that was a team many (including me) thought would be playing the 2022 season for a shot at the 1st overall draft pick in 2023. That's how powerful the draft can be for teams that know what they're doing.  Some of their previous post season/Super Bowl teams had a lot of mid-late round picks become very productive starters/Pro Bowl players.  Because of that, they had a very healthy cap that enabled them to make the playoffs for more than just a season or 2.

If they screw up this draft, I don't think Stefanski should be the next guy fired regardless of how unpopular that statement is.  

I think most head coaches...for a good while now are more or less over 1 side of the ball, defer to the coordinator on the other side of the ball, then do the game management stuff and administrative things.

How long has having coordinators been a thing?  It's been since then that all new head coaches come up as a specialist on one side of the ball or the other.  I don't think anybody has been an offensive and defensive coordinator.

That said, I doubt Stefanski could even call the defense.  I doubt he is all that fluent in the language spoken on that side of the ball, and that isn't just our coach.

Now, a head coach might go to the coordinator and say we need to get more pressure, or now is the time to play safe, but I don't think they call what biltz or coverage to run.

@canton-dawg said:

I’ll simplify this for you….Kev needs to win or he’s gone.

Probably true CD.  When Kev arrived, a lot of the roster was from Dorsey's regime and he went 11-5 right?  Coach of the Year material.   He was put into a very crappy situation last year.  The 1 thing the Browns SHOULD look at is did they hire him to be more of an OC than he is a HC?  We don't know what they want from him; but his entire NFL background being only with 1 team assures us he's not exactly Andy Reid.  In 1 respect, Stef coached up the most efficient season Jacoby Brissett had as an NFL fill-in starter.  In other respects, Stefanski had zero clue that wind chills piercing 15 degrees below zero off the Lake was a bad enough day to throw that 3 passes were dropped in the end zone. 

As this roster became more and more Andrew Berry's team - the record decreased to 9-8 and then 7-10.  Now it's time to do what the Browns do every 2-3 years of bad personnel management - fire the coaches and 66% of the Coordinators with more of the fanbase wanting Stefanski gone too.  As much as Schwartz excites me - he's gonna need better gridiron chess pieces at DT or he's gonna have losing teams like Atlanta running the ball down the Browns' esophagus while the top 4 LBers on our depth chart are on IR because of the bad personnel choices starting on the IDL. 

Why is everyone giving Andrew Berry a free pass?  He's drafted 2 offensive starters (Wills & DPJ) and only 1 of them plays like a keeper (and it's not the 10th overall pick). I think we're focusing more on the symptoms than the disease.  We're not setting a gridiron chess table that allows us to be better than 7-10.  This is a very big draft.  A team like Seattle nailed the draft last year.  They made the playoffs because of how much the drafted helped their running game; which made life a lot easier for Geno Smith and the passing game.  Keep in mind, that was a team many (including me) thought would be playing the 2022 season for a shot at the 1st overall draft pick in 2023. That's how powerful the draft can be for teams that know what they're doing.  Some of their previous post season/Super Bowl teams had a lot of mid-late round picks become very productive starters/Pro Bowl players.  Because of that, they had a very healthy cap that enabled them to make the playoffs for more than just a season or 2.

If they screw up this draft, I don't think Stefanski should be the next guy fired regardless of how unpopular that statement is.  

@orion said:

Run-game coordinator to DL coach.  That was Schwartz's idea we assume?

...and here we 'asume' again that the title assistant HC is because without it, it would've been a lateral move?

I remember when he played for us.  And I remember that because of injuries, he had to play a couple/few times on the regular defense.  And I think I recall thinking that he was slow.  He recognized what was happening ok, but couldn't get there in time.  -  Villanova was his school.......I was skeptical about this at first......but he was a pretty good ST player......and he's been a ST coordinator for a handful of years now.   Perhaps he knows a thing or two and can get us on track.   I'm pullin' for him.

Calling it a lateral move is being kind. He had a great run with the Colts, which was noticed around the league, and even interviewed for their HC position a month ago. He is clearly on an upward trajectory. Without the Assistant HC label, the rest of the league would have probably seen more as a demotion. 

We are both rooting for him. With The Browns seemingly making all the right moves so far, part of me is getting very excited for next season. With my years supporting the Browns increasing, and the seemingly inevitable heartbreak that comes along with that, that part of me is going: "Danger, Will Robinson!"

@ballpeen said:

He is the defensive run game coordinator.  DL coach has been added to his duties.

Right because Stump Mitchel is the RB coach..

@nickers said:

Well that kind of makes sense no?... I guy who has exp preparing runners and the running game should at least have some idea how to attack it... Just surmizing...

He is the defensive run game coordinator.  DL coach has been added to his duties.

@orion said:

Run-game coordinator to DL coach.  That was Schwartz's idea we assume?

.

Well that kind of makes sense no?... I guy who has exp preparing runners and the running game should at least have some idea how to attack it... Just surmizing...

I also don't think the title asst head coach would be a indicator that Ray would take the head coach job if Stefanski is removed during the season.  It might, but I don't think it is automatic.

@vambo said:

Run-game coordinator to DL coach.  That was Schwartz's idea we assume?

@korsou-dawg said:

Apparently Bubba deal is done, and he is also getting the title of assistant HC.

...and here we 'asume' again that the title assistant HC is because without it, it would've been a lateral move?

I remember when he played for us.  And I remember that because of injuries, he had to play a couple/few times on the regular defense.  And I think I recall thinking that he was slow.  He recognized what was happening ok, but couldn't get there in time.  -  Villanova was his school.......I was skeptical about this at first......but he was a pretty good ST player......and he's been a ST coordinator for a handful of years now.   Perhaps he knows a thing or two and can get us on track.   I'm pullin' for him.

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1628910798482419712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1628910798482419712%7Ctwgr%5E937846a98e851c615b171322dd2e072692e02e56%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-to-name-ben-bloom-dline-coach

@vambo said:

Official: Browns name Bubba Ventrone special teams coordinator and assistant head coach

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/23/browns-bubba-ventrone-official/

It also say the browns are looking at James Urban as OC coach... Interesting.. I thought that was AVP's responsibility.. Kevvy better give up play calling duties as well.. He sucks...

@nickers said:

I though Callie Brownson held that title.. But then I thought I heard the other day shes coaching Receivers?...  I haven't seen anything yet that says the Bubba deal is done beside a lot of interweb chatter......

Official: Browns name Bubba Ventrone special teams coordinator and assistant head coach

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/23/browns-bubba-ventrone-official/

@nickers said:

Won't say I'm happy but ever so "slightly' encouraged.. But... It's about Dubya's man..

Yeah I should have said in corporate speak “guarded optimism”

@korsou-dawg said:

Regardless, count your blessings. Similarly to Schwartz, we got the best candidate available. How often do we get to say that? Let alone twice in the same off-season. 

So your telling me ? Our beloved Browns..

Didn't wait until the last minute to take who's ever leftover.. While interviewing 3 each, early in a coaching process

Didn't have to piss off the world paying guaranteed money up front to a somewhat pervert..and

Didn't have to use words of.. "We need a Adult in the room" 

Excuse me... while I go run naked thru some Florida bushes  ?  I'll log back in Friday to see if any of this is still real

WELCOME BACK BUBBA ! ?   LFG !

@sdbacker80 said:

Schwartz is probably that guy.

Or Van Pelt.  Certainly not the new ST guy I should think.

@sdbacker80 said:

Schwartz is probably that guy.  And I don’t think we need a deep playoff run, but I think we need to make the playoffs.  

8-9 and 7-10 respectively were unacceptable given the roster we had.  
 

It seems like the organization knew the DC had to go, Likely felt Preifer needed to go and he ultimately did, had to do what it needed to do to keep Callahan…and I think Stefanski probably got a put up or get the hell out speech.  
 

I have to say I’m happy.    
 

Won't say I'm happy but ever so "slightly' encouraged.. But... It's about Dubya's man..

@canton-dawg said:

Kev’s mid season replacement? ?

Schwartz is probably that guy.  And I don’t think we need a deep playoff run, but I think we need to make the playoffs.  

8-9 and 7-10 respectively were unacceptable given the roster we had.  
 

It seems like the organization knew the DC had to go, Likely felt Preifer needed to go and he ultimately did, had to do what it needed to do to keep Callahan…and I think Stefanski probably got a put up or get the hell out speech.  
 

I have to say I’m happy.  Of course    See me again October 

@korsou-dawg said:

Apparently Bubba deal is done, and he is also getting the title of assistant HC.

I though Callie Brownson held that title.. But then I thought I heard the other day shes coaching Receivers?...  I haven't seen anything yet that says the Bubba deal is done beside a lot of interweb chatter......

@canton-dawg said:

Kev’s mid season replacement? ?

Something to that extent must have been dangled in front of him. As much as I love my Browns, I do not see how a successful and highly sought after ST Coordinator just makes a sideways move to us, without being 'incentivized.' 

Regardless, count your blessings. Similarly to Schwartz, we got the best candidate available. How often do we get to say that? Let alone twice in the same off-season.