@nickers said:

That sounds about right and for the reasons you stated.

@nickers said:

That is exactly where I stand... On a side note..  Are you playing PIB this summer?.. We might have my nieces 21st Birthday celebration there in the beginning of august.. Would love to bring the gang to see ya sing...

I have two trips. June 19th 20 and 21 and like the second full weekend of september. Less than usual but c'est la vie

If I lived where you do it would make things much easier.  After a loss, thinking about the 10 hours or so drive home on Monday...that sucks.  Add in I spend as much or more on travel expences....hell, I am talking myself out of them the more I type. lol

It is what it is.  Heck, maybe the Browns make it easy for me, win a bunch of games and make the experience fun.

@ballpeen said:

I don't see how them sucking is a hollow victory for anybody.  Well, maybe it would be for me. I have had my season tickets for 17 seasons now.  I have been flirting with the idea of giving them up.  The travel just isn't as easy as it once was.  If they suck, it would make that decision a whole lot easier. Not to mention the $4400 I spend on the tickets plus the 3 days of travel cost.

As for what it will take?  Hard to say, or put a number on things.  I guess I'll know it when I see it. I could see things work out where a team with 11 wins might not make a wildcard with the way the AFC is this year.  It would be hard for me to call that a bad season.

I finally caved in and renewed again. Season tickets since 1979.....after that Saints game I was totally pissed off, called my ticket rep.

I'm giving it one more year. I think I wrote this back in January, maybe December.....the thing I can't stand is they want you to ante up the season ticket money before free agency & the draft, which I think is ass-backwards. You have to trust they will make good decisions (they've struggled there lol).

We don't know how this will pan out but the AFC North will be brutal. I don't see any team winning more than 11 games. Protect the home turf, steal a few road games, then the Browns win the North. Sounds simple, yet nothing is ever simple with Cle.

@westside-steve said:

Oh don't misunderstand the hollow Victory is if I claim that Jimmy Haslam is a shit owner and the team continues to suck. That means I'm right about that but it's not fun to be right about. And assuming that ownership has at least something to do with the success of a team or lack thereof how many teams have been worse than the Browns during the time that Jimmy has owned this team? I don't enjoy being negative but since even the worst teams in the NFL are highly profitable it looks like we're stuck with this asshole.

But when's losses and scoreboard are just about the only thing we have. So just for myself I think anything less than an actual playoff win is going to be a disappointment. And if the other three teams in the AFC North are better than the Browns there's got to be a reason for that.

I mean I'm not going to start rooting for this shit eating Steelers but I have every right to be pissed about a permanent spot in the bilge of the Good Ship AFC north.

WSS 

That is exactly where I stand... On a side note..  Are you playing PIB this summer?.. We might have my nieces 21st Birthday celebration there in the beginning of august.. Would love to bring the gang to see ya sing...

@ballpeen said:

I don't see how them sucking is a hollow victory for anybody.  Well, maybe it would be for me. I have had my season tickets for 17 seasons now.  I have been flirting with the idea of giving them up.  The travel just isn't as easy as it once was.  If they suck, it would make that decision a whole lot easier. Not to mention the $4400 I spend on the tickets plus the 3 days of travel cost.

As for what it will take?  Hard to say, or put a number on things.  I guess I'll know it when I see it. I could see things work out where a team with 11 wins might not make a wildcard with the way the AFC is this year.  It would be hard for me to call that a bad season.

Oh don't misunderstand the hollow Victory is if I claim that Jimmy Haslam is a shit owner and the team continues to suck. That means I'm right about that but it's not fun to be right about. And assuming that ownership has at least something to do with the success of a team or lack thereof how many teams have been worse than the Browns during the time that Jimmy has owned this team? I don't enjoy being negative but since even the worst teams in the NFL are highly profitable it looks like we're stuck with this asshole.

But when's losses and scoreboard are just about the only thing we have. So just for myself I think anything less than an actual playoff win is going to be a disappointment. And if the other three teams in the AFC North are better than the Browns there's got to be a reason for that.

I mean I'm not going to start rooting for this shit eating Steelers but I have every right to be pissed about a permanent spot in the bilge of the Good Ship AFC north.

WSS 

@westside-steve said:

What do you need to happen for you to say you were right by the end of the season? Wild card appearance? Wild card win? More?

I have more to gain if I'm wrong because that means the Browns will be kicking some ass. If they still suck at the end of this season that's a hollow victory for me.

WSS

I don't see how them sucking is a hollow victory for anybody.  Well, maybe it would be for me. I have had my season tickets for 17 seasons now.  I have been flirting with the idea of giving them up.  The travel just isn't as easy as it once was.  If they suck, it would make that decision a whole lot easier. Not to mention the $4400 I spend on the tickets plus the 3 days of travel cost.

As for what it will take?  Hard to say, or put a number on things.  I guess I'll know it when I see it. I could see things work out where a team with 11 wins might not make a wildcard with the way the AFC is this year.  It would be hard for me to call that a bad season.

@nickers said:

For me it was a collective failure...

Well said!  

@ballpeen said:

I don't know my friend.  You may be confusing the Haslam from his first few years as owner v the owner he has become.

I think he is a pretty darn good owner.  I am not so sure if he ever meddled, but I am sure he doesn't today.  I think he has assembled a solid front office, and a coach still to be determined, but Stefanski has done some good things.  You even said something about Stefanski being a scapegoat, which indicated you don't think he is all that bad.

The last thing that is big for an owner is he isn't skimpy in the pockets.  He opens the bank when his GM thinks we need to get a player.  I am not sure what some people expect out of an owner.  They don't play or coach.  All they do is provide facilities, which seem to be solid, and spend money when necessary, which he has.

Stefanski picked his coaches.  Not the owner.  Stefanski and the veterans on the team set the culture, not the owner.  

Maybe. One of the points you make has to do with the hierarchy of command which I don't think we really know. Is it stefansky de podesta Berry the homeless guy Dee somebody else? Everybody in the building?

And yes he spends money. Ready Learner spent money. It's a lot easier in modern NFL because there's not much chance of losing money. That even benefits traditional skin flints Like Mike Browns of the league. Hey bro you can still turn out to be correct and I would have to eat a big plate of crow.

What do you need to happen for you to say you were right by the end of the season? Wild card appearance? Wild card win? More?

I have more to gain if I'm wrong because that means the Browns will be kicking some ass. If they still suck at the end of this season that's a hollow victory for me.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Jimmy Haslam still own the team?

WSS

I don't know my friend.  You may be confusing the Haslam from his first few years as owner v the owner he has become.

I think he is a pretty darn good owner.  I am not so sure if he ever meddled, but I am sure he doesn't today.  I think he has assembled a solid front office, and a coach still to be determined, but Stefanski has done some good things.  You even said something about Stefanski being a scapegoat, which indicated you don't think he is all that bad.

The last thing that is big for an owner is he isn't skimpy in the pockets.  He opens the bank when his GM thinks we need to get a player.  I am not sure what some people expect out of an owner.  They don't play or coach.  All they do is provide facilities, which seem to be solid, and spend money when necessary, which he has.

Stefanski picked his coaches.  Not the owner.  Stefanski and the veterans on the team set the culture, not the owner.  

@nickers said:

For me it was a collective failure...

Agree. Culmination of trying to throw too much, and many dropped passes. I think the players mailed that one in, for me it was worse than the Jets game.

@bob806 said:

Jets & Saints games were squarely on the players IMHO. 

For me it was a collective failure...

@bob806 said:

Jets & Saints games were squarely on the players IMHO. 

agreed !

but what may have gotten the interest of Jimmy Haslam to re-construct his stadium was that Saints game ?

Go back to a holiday game in Green Bay on a non frozen tundra.. that game the Browns competed their butts off... cold/snow but not a frozen field

?These Browns, have no edge playing on Cleveland's frozen turf. Next to a frozen Lake w/high winds. Haslam might have this idea in his new reconstruction plans?

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/sports/football/tenderizing-the-packers-tundra-with-light-and-heat.html

@gumby73 said:

NFL Head Coaching Rankings: Which Team’s Coach Reigns Supreme?    

 #23. Kevin Stefanski, Cleveland Browns

Seasons With Team: 3 | Head Coaching Record: *26-24

Analysis: This feels like a big year for Stefanski after he won a playoff game and had the Cleveland Browns on the precipice of an AFC Championship game in Year 1. They’ve gone in the wrong direction the last two years. With Deshaun Watson eligible to play the whole year, Stefanski better make sure Browns owner Jimmy Haslam starts to get a return on that absurd investment, or Haslam will try to find someone else who can.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/nfl-head-coaching-rankings-which-teams-coach-reigns-supreme/ debatable list

Will mention Stef has not had the best of roster luck since year 1 neither..

Malek McDowell flips out..Garrett flips his car..Watson suspended 10* games.. Defensive players disconnect from Joe Woods.. LB'er position down 3 key players to IR.. Pro Bowl returner Jakeem Grant blows a knee untouched at training camp..  ?

Let's hope these kinda un-lucky roster train wrecks our in Stef's past too.. 

2020 the stars all aligned for Stefanski 

2021 was a poor coaching job.

2022 was the doomed from the start and then what could go wrong went wrong complemented by his poor playing calling. 
 

i really like the Schwartz move and I think it will save his job.  Stefanksi is going to continue to poke his head in play calling he needs a “general” on the other side of the ball with HC experience to boot to throw in some 02 cents when it comes to in game stuff. 

 #23. Kevin Stefanski, Cleveland Browns

Seasons With Team: 3 | Head Coaching Record: *26-24

Analysis: This feels like a big year for Stefanski after he won a playoff game and had the Cleveland Browns on the precipice of an AFC Championship game in Year 1. They’ve gone in the wrong direction the last two years. With Deshaun Watson eligible to play the whole year, Stefanski better make sure Browns owner Jimmy Haslam starts to get a return on that absurd investment, or Haslam will try to find someone else who can.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/nfl-head-coaching-rankings-which-teams-coach-reigns-supreme/ debatable list

Will mention Stef has not had the best of roster luck since year 1 neither..

Malek McDowell flips out..Garrett flips his car to Pro toe Bowl..Watson suspended 10* games.. Defensive players disconnect from Joe Woods.. LB'er position down 3 key players to IR.. Pro Bowl returner Jakeem Grant blows a knee untouched at training camp..  ?

Let's hope these kinda un-lucky roster train wrecks are in Stef's past too.. 

Dee still involved in the decision-making process?

Kevin Stefanski is the last scapegoat they've got.

Jim Brown needs to smile upon the team from Heaven.

WSS

@sdbacker80 said:

We had a ton of brain fart type games…Jets, Falcons, Chargers, Saints…we had no business losing those games…give us two there and we are 9-8…three and we are a 10 win team. 

Jets & Saints games were squarely on the players IMHO. 

@dutch-oven said:

On paper, there's a lot of things the Browns did this offseason that point to a turnaround from last season's disappointing finish. 

But man, if I had a gun to my head I'd probably still have them at 7-10 or 8-9, even though an improvement in all three phases looks very likely. Such is the life of being a jaded Browns fan, I guess. I just do not see Stefanski being the head coach come this time next year. 

Stefanski is squarely on the hot seat.  If it doesn’t go well or goes same as usual- he’s gone and then you have 2024 where Berry and Watson will be on that spot.

We had a ton of brain fart type games…Jets, Falcons, Chargers, Saints…we had no business losing those games…give us two there and we are 9-8…three and we are a 10 win team. 

@texasag1969 said:

Are saying the name of the new stadium should be Charlie Brown Stadium rather than Jim Brown Stadium??

They have all the talent and they have a reason to go deep into the postseason.  If they have a losing season this year, you might as well make Charlie Brown the mascot with peppermint Patty pulling the ball away.

@neo said:

The Browns have the roster to win NOW. Some of our stars are starting to age so if not now, WHEN? If winning and being a part of winning a championship for the best player to ever take the field isn't modivation enough, this team is truely fucked. If they come out and lay a goose egg this season, this team will never be a winner and the cultrure hasn't changed.

Are saying the name of the new stadium should be Charlie Brown Stadium rather than Jim Brown Stadium??

@nickers said:

For once we agree on something... I was never a proponent of Stefanski from the start.. While I think he's an admirable person and I respect his commitment to God... I just don't think he is the Alpha leader Depodesta envisions him to be.. I say this having been raised by my Father and a Stepfather who were both Alpha personalities.. Strong willed , etc... I think Kevvy is a "nice" guy.. But I agree w/Ghoolie when he says Shitmypantsky is not calling the shots.. Or better to say he's only calling shots on a limited basis.. If that makes any sense... I thought he managed Mayfield poorly and I'm not excusing Mayfield either... Mayfield should've kept his trap shut..... While that ship has sailed.. There are other instances I saw that he mishandled and that was the locker room in general... My gut feeling is Jim Schwartz might become the next HC... I just think he's a more sturdy guide and doesn't put up with BS... Almost Belichic like.. But in his own business like style.

Oh wow, I'm off ignore?

Please put me back on.

@dutch-oven said:

On paper, there's a lot of things the Browns did this offseason that point to a turnaround from last season's disappointing finish. 

But man, if I had a gun to my head I'd probably still have them at 7-10 or 8-9, even though an improvement in all three phases looks very likely. Such is the life of being a jaded Browns fan, I guess. I just do not see Stefanski being the head coach come this time next year. 

For once we agree on something... I was never a proponent of Stefanski from the start.. While I think he's an admirable person and I respect his commitment to God... I just don't think he is the Alpha leader Depodesta envisions him to be.. I say this having been raised by my Father and a Stepfather who were both Alpha personalities.. Strong willed , etc... I think Kevvy is a "nice" guy.. But I agree w/Ghoolie when he says Shitmypantsky is not calling the shots.. Or better to say he's only calling shots on a limited basis.. If that makes any sense... I thought he managed Mayfield poorly and I'm not excusing Mayfield either... Mayfield should've kept his trap shut..... While that ship has sailed.. There are other instances I saw that he mishandled and that was the locker room in general... My gut feeling is Jim Schwartz might become the next HC... I just think he's a more sturdy guide and doesn't put up with BS... Almost Belichic like.. But in his own business like style.