@orion said:

Yeah, I guess I didn't word that too well.  How 'bout, Hopefully we WON'T look like asses because Watson played well  (...and not poorly).

That is better.  If the rest of the team plays poorly, we are sunk.

I was thinking you might have meant us looking like asse if Watson doesn't play well.  The underlying point being Houston holds our 1st pick.  The worse we finish, the higher the pick they receive.

I hope they get the last or even the next to last pick.

@ballpeen said:

I don't understand that comment?   How is Watson playing well going to make us look like asses?

Yeah, I guess I didn't word that too well.  How 'bout, Hopefully we WON'T look like asses because Watson played well  (...and not poorly).

@orion said:

And hopefully we don't look like asses because Watson played well.    

I don't understand that comment?   How is Watson playing well going to make us look like asses?

@gumby73 said:

Brief timeline from a Texans pay article, during Watson trade...

The Texans owner Bob McNair passes away. Son, now owner Cal McNair takes his place..

a.) Fires A fairly good Coach..

b.) Rick Smith the Texans former GM, was fired soon after...

c.) Than in comes a honest ?  Patriots savor from New England, named as Houston's GM ..Nick Caserio.. who than took out the rest of the witnessing Texans front office staff...

Not a small matter.. The Texans should have forfeited draft picks & got fined in most opinions ..   - Only if the son murdered the father.

Ultimately the owner is allowed to fire whomever he/she/they want...( we have Trigguh Finguh Jimmuh ).  And it's not uncommon for both the HC & GM to be fired....which can snowball into the new HC & GM changing many of the people around them.  And in this case, with a new owner, he'll probably make a personnel change or two....so it's a full blown cleaning of the house.  (we've been there)

And so now they just had 2 first round picks (#'s 2 & 3 overall)...and they picked the QB for their new era.  Next year they'll have our 1st rounder...so then their Watson trade assets will have all been transformed into asses.  And hopefully we don't look like asses because Watson played well.    

@westside-steve said:

You can add to that the dishonesty of the Houston Texans* and a poorly researched decision by Jimmy Haslam.

* who he couldn't get along with and who possibly set this whole massage parlor racket up to punish him. Not sure that I buy that excuse but if so how the hell does the league not come down on them with both feet?

WSS 

Brief timeline from a Texans pay article, during Watson trade...

The Texans owner Bob McNair passes away. Son, now owner Cal McNair takes his place..

a.) Fires A fairly good Coach..

b.) Rick Smith the Texans former GM, was fired soon after...

c.) Than in comes a honest ?  Patriots savor from New England, named as Houston's GM ..Nick Caserio.. who than took out the rest of the witnessing Texans front office staff...

Not a small matter.. The Texans should have forfeited draft picks & got fined in most opinions ..   

@flugel said:

True.    FWIW, he took the Houston Texans to the playoffs 2 of the 3 years he suited up for them right after winning a National Championship.  I don't see where this guy does anything but win for organizations that are committed to that.  The fallout in Houston was when he sensed that organization's decreased commitment after a very promising start.

The Browns did have high expectations heading into 2021; but they let go of a DT (Sheldon Richardson) they paid big FA $ to in 2019 and 2020.  He had a veteran leadership presence this defense lacked and sorely missed in his absence.  In that playoff win, you could see him getting DL/teammates to get their hands up and deflect those passes (that ended up as INTs for our defense).  They also brought heat.  It seemed like right at the time it looked like the Browns were ready for bigger expectations in 2021 they began to de-prioritize the DT position.  This hasn't kept our LBers healthy; and the soft middle really hurt us against the run.  In fairness to the FO, FA DT Andrew Billings who took off the playoff season due to COVID fear - returned in 2021 way overweight and way under committed.  And then in 2022, we saw just how much the Interior DL/DT position prevented us from winning with a backup QB during the 4-7 start.  The sad thing was the Offense averaged something like 24 points a game that the defense just couldn't support and win with.  

In 1995, many were predicting the Browns to make it to the AFC Championship; before the bottom fell out and we lost the franchise for the next 3 years.  In my history of following this team - the Browns never live up to high expectations. I've learned I'd rather have them hungry instead feeling entitled via expectations.  I don't mind Cincy or Baltimore getting all the hype - that makes a bigger animal for the hunters with insatiable appetites to giddy-up and get after.   

Right now I just want to see this team with a lot of newcomers and new coaches - preparing to do what they're brought here to do.  Reports like Watson and the passing game looking sharp gives me/us the sense and comfort this is happening.

Which in a roundabout way brings us back to my point. We've got one season now to wait and see. But reading over your very well written recap which covered a lot of situations that could be put in the shit happens category, most of those other problems could pretty easily be assigned to mistakes made by the general manager front office ownership etc. And I think Watson's own off the field actions have a lot to do with the fact that he couldn't stay on the field in cleveland. You can add to that the dishonesty of the Houston Texans* and a poorly researched decision by Jimmy Haslam. And of course whichever team you root for will make the difference between that laundry list would be titled excuses or reasons.

Then again this time of year Sports writers have to fill space.

WSS 

* who he couldn't get along with and who possibly set this whole massage parlor racket up to punish him. Not sure that I buy that excuse but if so how the hell does the league not come down on them with both feet?

@westside-steve said:

If and when he does it here I think at least some of the negative feelings may dissipate. And mostly by that I mean Jimmy Haslam's decision making as well as Andrew Berry and Kevin stefanski. Watson is what he is. Unlike the Houston Texans the Cleveland Browns were on almost everybody shortlist to win the division and advance to the AFC title game.

And it's good that he doesn't suck in the ota's.

WSS 

True.    FWIW, he took the Houston Texans to the playoffs 2 of the 3 years he suited up for them right after winning a National Championship.  I don't see where this guy does anything but win for organizations that are committed to that.  The fallout in Houston was when he sensed that organization's decreased commitment after a very promising start.

The Browns did have high expectations heading into 2021; but they let go of a DT (Sheldon Richardson) they paid big FA $ to in 2019 and 2020.  He had a veteran leadership presence this defense lacked and sorely missed in his absence.  In that playoff win, you could see him getting DL/teammates to get their hands up and deflect those passes (that ended up as INTs for our defense).  They also brought heat.  It seemed like right at the time it looked like the Browns were ready for bigger expectations in 2021 they began to de-prioritize the DT position.  This hasn't kept our LBers healthy; and the soft middle really hurt us against the run.  In fairness to the FO, FA DT Andrew Billings who took off the playoff season due to COVID fear - returned in 2021 way overweight and way under committed.  And then in 2022, we saw just how much the Interior DL/DT position prevented us from winning with a backup QB during the 4-7 start.  The sad thing was the Offense averaged something like 24 points a game that the defense just couldn't support and win with.  

In 1995, many were predicting the Browns to make it to the AFC Championship; before the bottom fell out and we lost the franchise for the next 3 years.  In my history of following this team - the Browns never live up to high expectations. I've learned I'd rather have them hungry instead feeling entitled via expectations.  I don't mind Cincy or Baltimore getting all the hype - that makes a bigger animal for the hunters with insatiable appetites to giddy-up and get after.   

Right now I just want to see this team with a lot of newcomers and new coaches - preparing to do what they're brought here to do.  Reports like Watson and the passing game looking sharp gives me/us the sense and comfort this is happening.

@flugel said:

Then you need to study more than a 6 game extract of the guy.  He wasn't 7-10 here. He only played in 6 games.  He took over a 4-7 team and won 3 of the last 6 games.  Not great but isn't 4-7 projecting a lot worse?   

The year Houston was 4-12, his completion % was 70.2 passing for 4823 yds 33 TDs 7 INTs with 112.4 rating. Whenever Cleveland had bad records like that - the Browns never had QBs capable of those kinds of numbers.  He also led Houston to 2 post seasons and beat Buffalo QB'd by Josh Allen in the 1st round of the playoffs on 1/4/2020: so it's not like he hasn't proven himself at the NFL level.  Let me clarify here, Watson led Houston to the playoffs in 2 of the 3 seasons he suited up at QB there while making the Pro Bowl twice.

If and when he does it here I think at least some of the negative feelings may dissipate. And mostly by that I mean Jimmy Haslam's decision making as well as Andrew Berry and Kevin stefanski. Watson is what he is. Unlike the Houston Texans the Cleveland Browns were on almost everybody shortlist to win the division and advance to the AFC title game.

And it's good that he doesn't suck in the ota's.

WSS 

@orion said:

Watson went 3-3 with us in what was an incredibly tumultuous year for him on many levels.  ( and really, his record should be 4-2 because he had 3td's dropped resulting in a loss to a pathetic Saints team that was reduced to running wild-cat formations )  I think it's really good news to hear that he looked quite good at the OTA...no matter what they were wearing.

Supposedly Elijah Moore stood out making nice catches...and he was moved all around...both slots, both WR spots including working out of the backfield.  

Also WR  Jaelon Darden did good things with Watson at QB.   ( 5'8" smurf)  - can also return punts.  

.......now let's hope they can all keep their noses clean and make it to TC safely.

To your points bolded above - I think so too!

Supposedly Elijah Moore stood out making nice catches...and he was moved all around...both slots, both WR spots including working out of the backfield.  

Also WR  Jaelon Darden did good things with Watson at QB.   ( 5'8" smurf)  - can also return punts.  

.......now let's hope they can all keep their noses clean and make it to TC safely.

@flugel said:

Then you need to study more than a 6 game extract of the guy.  He wasn't 7-10 here. He only played in 6 games.  He took over a 4-7 team and won 3 of the last 6 games.  Not great but isn't 4-7 projecting a lot worse?   

The year Houston was 4-12, his completion % was 70.2 passing for 4823 yds 33 TDs 7 INTs with 112.4 rating. Whenever Cleveland had bad records like that - the Browns never had QBs capable of those kinds of numbers.  He also led Houston to 2 post seasons and beat Buffalo QB'd by Josh Allen in the 1st round of the playoffs on 1/4/2020: so it's not like he hasn't proven himself at the NFL level.  Let me clarify here, Watson led Houston to the playoffs in 2 of the 3 seasons he suited up at QB there while making the Pro Bowl twice.

The Texans went 4-12 that season because they decided to start tanking. 

That was the reason why Watson wanted traded from Houston. They literally were trading anyone of value. 

@nickers said:

Again Tom.. I want to see it in real time in pads with defenders chasing him.. That is really a true measuring stick... Guys practicing in tees and shorts tells us nothing at this point...  So far hes produced seasons of 4-12 ans 7-10 and sat out almost 2 years... Again.. Talk is cheap... They paid him big money... Now start playing like it..

Then you need to study more than a 6 game extract of the guy.  He wasn't 7-10 here. He only played in 6 games.  He took over a 4-7 team and won 3 of the last 6 games.  Not great but isn't 4-7 projecting a lot worse?   

The year Houston was 4-12, his completion % was 70.2 passing for 4823 yds 33 TDs 7 INTs with 112.4 rating. Whenever Cleveland had bad records like that - the Browns never had QBs capable of those kinds of numbers.  He also led Houston to 2 post seasons and beat Buffalo QB'd by Josh Allen in the 1st round of the playoffs on 1/4/2020: so it's not like he hasn't proven himself at the NFL level.  Let me clarify here, Watson led Houston to the playoffs in 2 of the 3 seasons he suited up at QB there while making the Pro Bowl twice.

"I feel really good," Watson said after Cleveland's second minicamp practice, which featured him completing several impressive passes against the team's defense. "The biggest thing is the confidence level, knowing who I am, trusting what I do, trusting the work that I put in these past couple years to get back to this position I'm in. ... So, I'm enjoying myself. I'm having fun."

Watson was suspended 11 games last year for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy by committing sexual assault, as defined by the league, against massage therapists. Watson has settled 23 of the civil cases filed against him but still faces two lawsuits that remain active.

EDITOR'S PICKS

• 

  RB Chubb 'playing for' late Jim Brown this season

  4dJake Trotter
• 

  Police: Two Browns players robbed at gunpoint

  5dJake Trotter
• 

  'He's holding us to that standard': Browns DC Jim Schwartz making his presence felt

  7dJake Trotter

In six games after the suspension, Watson ranked just 26th in the league in QBR (38.3), as the Browns went 3-3 and finished with a record of 7-10. Watson also sat out the entire 2021 season after requesting a trade from the Houston Texans.

"If you stopped doing something for so long, you just naturally lose that confidence because you haven't been playing at that level," Watson said. "So, you forget, your body and your muscle memory, forget how fast and how to do things. ... Whenever I got back on the field last year, I was building that confidence up. ... Having this offseason and being full throttle, [the confidence has] definitely have caught back up with me."

The Browns traded for Watson last March. They sent Houston three first-round draft picks in the trade, then signed Watson to a five-year deal worth $230 million guaranteed, which remains the most in NFL history.

@nickers said:

Guys practicing in tees and shorts tells us nothing at this point

you are a fucking idiot if you believe what you said

D. Watson..

Footballs were being thrown in the correct location where WR's are suppose to be & making catches.. that's a plus when learning a new offense, with tweaks to what's coming back already in the former playbooks

Unofficially, Watson threw nine touchdown passes on 10 red zone plays during the 7-on-7 period near the end of practice. The lone play that was not a touchdown was a pass to Moore, who was marked at the one-yard line. 

Stef...

"Former defensive back speaking now," he said.

"Seven on seven is geared to the offense. You should complete balls at seven on seven. So I'm the head coach, not the offensive (coordinator)."

on the other hand...

Jim Schwartz.. 

"I mean, I won't keep any secrets," he said.

"You'll probably see five guys in pass rush a lot of times. We probably have five of them out there. We'll drop a guy occasionally, but we'll place them down five stuff,

and that all goes back to the corners that we have. And it's hard to play five down if your corners aren't any good.

We got good corners, and we're going to rely on those guys, too. it's going to take all parts of this defense"

lots still to be determined in pads  ^^ ?️

Training Camp is earlier this summer because of the Hall of Fame Game.

#Browns will start camp at the Greenbrier 7/22-30, then come back to Berea to get ready for the Hall of Fame Game. Team will head to Philly for joint practices with #Eagles preseason game on 8/17.

@tiamat63 said:

While good news beats the alternative, I'd caution against anyone using the Browns mouthpiece(s) as their anchor point.

I'm not sure how much of it they edited out, but do remember that you could hear my (muffled, but bold) laugh when I was 20ft from Nathan Zagura recording a training camp report on how "RG3 LOOKS FANTASTIC".     That was..... 2016?

No doubt.  That is why I said you have to keep it in perspective.  Also, the reports seem to be wide ranging, so I don't think it is all through the team mouthpiece.

No matter.  The reports are good.  Now we will see how all of that transitions to training camp next month.

@syd said:

since are return I have never scene a qb look so good in ota's.... balls were either in the dirt or over their heads

ESPN Cleveland@ESPNCleveland

"He looks like the Deshaun Watson that we talked about from the years that he led the NFL in passing," - @JRCherry3 on what he saw at Browns mini-camp this week.

Jun 7, 2023 141 5View on X

@dutch-oven said:

nickers is correct, it is only them in shorts running around in non-contact passing drills. I'm glad he looks good, but I doubt it really means much.

You are correct Sid, though, that if Watson looked bad, nickers would be doing cartwheels telling everyone how he told them he's overrated.  

since are return I have never scene a qb look so good in ota's.... balls were either in the dirt or over their heads

I'm not sure how much of it they edited out, but do remember that you could hear my (muffled, but bold) laugh when I was 20ft from Nathan Zagura recording a training camp report on how "RG3 LOOKS FANTASTIC".     That was..... 2016?

@nickers said:

Again Tom.. I want to see it in real time in pads with defenders chasing him.. That is really a true measuring stick... Guys practicing in tees and shorts tells us nothing at this point...  So far hes produced seasons of 4-12 ans 7-10 and sat out almost 2 years... Again.. Talk is cheap... They paid him big money... Now start playing like it..

It does tell you something.  Like I said before, you have to keep it in the perspective of what it is and what it is for.

Being good at the end is the result of being good along the way.  Camp is a step by step process just as the season is a 17 step process.

@flugel said:

Nicks, ANY QB that shows up for a 1st start in week 12 on a brand new team (after missing all of the previous season)- will be rusty aside from starting from square 1 with chemistry.  That was the only season he struggled; so it's important to keep the why (it was so) in mind.  There are no distractions this year.  It's okay to hope a QB of our favorite team succeeds here.  

When adversity strikes, good leaders shine - bad ones point fingers everywhere but thyself...  Watson won a National Championship against a defense loaded with high round draft picks.  

Again Tom.. I want to see it in real time in pads with defenders chasing him.. That is really a true measuring stick... Guys practicing in tees and shorts tells us nothing at this point...  So far hes produced seasons of 4-12 ans 7-10 and sat out almost 2 years... Again.. Talk is cheap... They paid him big money... Now start playing like it..