@tiamat63 said:

Going to start a rumor that Jesus Christ is a free agent and the Brownies are in the running.   You know, sources and such. 

Can't afford him either ?

@flugel said:

.  They also drafted a LT early in round 1 from Georgia that I'm hoping is overhyped thanks to some of the research @tiamat63 shared.  The Browns kind 

@fy56 said:

I see you've kept tabs on the Steelers too...better be careful, you and I may be accused of too much "Steeler love" on a Browns board. LOL They just happen to be our main rival and for all intents and purposes our next-door neighbors. Accuse me of being a "nosey neighbor", but NEVER a Steeler lover. I'm also a realist as are you obviously.

Anyway, Pickett concerns me too. I've searched the internetz for negativity on him just to help make me feel better lol,  but I'm not finding much. They hired a new GM Omar something, who apparently did a bang-up job in acquiring some talent.

There were signs that the Steelers were going to get to experience what it's like to suck for years. I don't know about that now. I'm just hoping last year was an anomaly.

History tells me you're smart to keep tabs on them and the Rats. And don't look now, Cincy is only 1 year removed from a Super Bowl.  To beat a hated rival the Browns play twice a year - we have to know who they are and how to beat them.  We learned who they are over the years; but we've had trouble with the how to beat them.  It's pretty much always started with the ownership and a philosophy to build the team around. It all starts at the top where they've consistently hired leadership and drafted personnel compatible with the philosophy the Rooneys built a dynasty around. It felt like that lasted until about a year or 2 after they lost to Green Bay in the Super Bowl.   The irony is Pittsburgh looked to Paul Brown's former messenger guard from the Cleveland Browns (Chuck Noll) to get it all going in the 70s.  The bitter rivalry between Paul Brown and Art Modell was now alive in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.  It didn't end there either.  Then Modell took Ozzie Newsome to Ratville; while all the new ownerships in Cleveland never really found a philosophy to build the team around.  When that happens - the draft is a lot like swinging at a pinata with blind folds on IMO.  

Things feel like they're finally changing for the better in this decade. Today, we're in an era where everything about winning starts and ends with the passing game.  Tom Brady dominated all the attention until Patrick Mahomes became the GOAT in training.  Pittsburgh always used to have the personnel for strong/physical running game to supplement their attacking defense with.  This set-up a good passing game.  It was never a guessing game. I don't think they have the same kind of OL today to do the same stuff.  Having said that, they drafted a TE some scouts hailed as the best run blocking TE in the draft.  He's a dual purpose TE cut out in the mold of Heath Miller that once put Maryland's dominating DE Shawn Merriman on his back.  They also drafted a LT early in round 1 from Georgia that I'm hoping is overhyped thanks to some of the research @tiamat63 shared.  The Browns kind of did it the hard way in the sense they were at 11-5 in 2020 before neglecting some important parts of the defense.  I think a lot of us are excited about how the FO responded this off-season as well as the additions of new Coordinators - Schwartz and Bubba.   

When the Browns frequented the playoffs in the 80s - there were games Sipe didn't look good at all for the first 57 minutes.  3 minutes later, he emerged as the reason they won a game they had no business winning that day.  They became the "Kardiac Kids" because that late 4th quarter CPR on 80,000 fans in the seats came alive to celebrate the thrill of a comeback victory.  Kosar brought a lot of the same goodies back so we kept calling this team the Kardiac Kids.  Nobody even cared or noticed we didn't know how to spell Cardiac.  When the Browns can win games where they've only played their best football for 2-3 minutes or so; we'll know they've arrived but haven't peaked.  That'll keep them driven.  I've been trained to worry most when the Browns play an opponent they're supposed to beat.  I want this team to train me I don't have to keep going back to the 80s to celebrate great football from our favorite team.  

where he’s gone wrong is with the read/react stuff employed by the previous regime..he’s partly to blame for the blown coverages we have had over the past 2/3 years. And I don’t like him in the slot for the simple fact …he’s closer to the LOS and he tries play like he’s 220- he’s missed a 3/4 games per year. 
 

Sounds like Schwartz is going to move guys around…and let these Uber athletic coverage guys we have sit in the WRs back pockets….but if we ever entertain a Donald trade are the Browns better with Aaron Donald or Denzel Ward? 

@texasag1969 said:

Both of your concerns on Pickett are warranted unfortunately. I watched him at Pitt and now again with the Squeelers and he's the real deal IMO. All that said I am expecting Watson to match that ability and our D to put a lot of pressure on him with the newest revisions/additions.

I know you are already aware of this, but being good in college doesn't always translate to the pros, so let's hope for the best....er for the worst I should say depending on how you look at it.lol

@flugel said:

Having said all that, we can all laugh at me later and even now when I say I have a very creepy feeling Pickett is going to be a very good QB for them. They went 5-2 in his last 7 games with 2 comeback wins in the final minute.  During that span, he only threw 1 INT.  I really hope I'm wrong about this feeling.

@fy56 said:

Anyway, Pickett concerns me too. I've searched the internetz for negativity on him just to help make me feel better lol,  but I'm not finding much.

Both of your concerns on Pickett are warranted unfortunately. I watched him at Pitt and now again with the Squeelers and he's the real deal IMO. All that said I am expecting Watson to match that ability and our D to put a lot of pressure on him with the newest revisions/additions.

@flugel said:

Good point about these days!  Aside from your points above - they also haven't had the same type of Offensive Line they used to run the ball extremely well behind or protect the passer with. I was talking/thinking the 70s through about their last Super Bowl appearance vrs GB in 2011.  In that span, they had a Super Bowl record of 6-1 with 2 QBs they drafted. They've always set the tone from the top with a philosophy of who they are; and they drafted accordingly. I think they're on the 3rd generation of Rooney today and the era has changed as well as the size of salary caps.  All of a sudden Cleveland goes to Pittsburgh in the playoffs and wins scoring 48 points and forcing 4 INTs and 5 or 6 turnovers.

Having said all that, we can all laugh at me later and even now when I say I have a very creepy feeling Pickett is going to be a very good QB for them. They went 5-2 in his last 7 games with 2 comeback wins in the final minute.  During that span, he only threw 1 INT.  I really hope I'm wrong about this feeling.  I'm so sick of that franchise.  Then we had to watch a guy we all appreciated as a Cleveland Brown (Ozzie Newsome) direct Baltimore to 2 Super Bowl wins.  Even worse, while he's allegedly retired - guess who was at the combines with a stop watch up in his press box?  I think he's still doing a lot of the same stuff he did for the Rats before he retired.  I think we saw with Phil Savage - it's not that easy to ask someone else to be Ozzie.  

Now that we're talking about how things have changed... If anyone would have told me our FO was going to acquire/sign the volume of players they did this offseason (aside from the draft) to improve weaknesses and depth; I would have said I'll believe it when I see it. 

I see you've kept tabs on the Steelers too...better be careful, you and I may be accused of too much "Steeler love" on a Browns board. LOL They just happen to be our main rival and for all intents and purposes our next-door neighbors. Accuse me of being a "nosey neighbor", but NEVER a Steeler lover. I'm also a realist as are you obviously.

Anyway, Pickett concerns me too. I've searched the internetz for negativity on him just to help make me feel better lol,  but I'm not finding much. They hired a new GM Omar something, who apparently did a bang-up job in acquiring some talent.

There were signs that the Steelers were going to get to experience what it's like to suck for years. I don't know about that now. I'm just hoping last year was an anomaly.

@tiamat63 said:

 You tend to draw larger bodied matchups on the outside where height really makes up for the lack of lateral space in either direction. Which is why your classic 'X' receivers are usually big, physical type of guys - Mike Evans, Devante, Metcalf, etc etc. 

 Slot matchups might present a less physical problem.  Downside - being closer to the box and being involved in the run fit.  Silver lining, the improvements along the Dline and (hopefully in the near future) linebacker helping to soften the blow of that potential issue.  Moving Ward inside on occasion where the matchup would be most favorable makes this secondary stronger as a whole. 

Good point.  Emerson's strength is press coverage; so moving Ward inside to cover the slot allows the Browns to match Emerson up with a WR he can jam at the line of scrimmage.  

Man, I still remember the trio of WRs Minnesota had back when they put Randy Moss in the slot (most of the time) as a rookie with Jake Reed and Cris Carter outside.  They also had Robert Smith as an excellent receiver out of the backfield.  Moss had 69 rec 1313 yards and 17 TDs. All of a sudden, Randall Cunningham was a very accurate passer with 3704 yards, 34 TDs, 10 INTs and a 106 passer rating.  Never underestimate those gigantic wing-spans on tall WRs with great hands.  Moss is a hard matchup for anyone in the slot; but my guess is Ward would have the best footspeed and agility of our top 3 corners to take on such a challenge today.

@syd said:

I love Chubb but i would for a  Herschel Walker kinda trade 

he is a lock down corner  on man to man coverage he can shut down one side of the field so fuck the zone or putting him in the slot(where he can get concussed)

 You tend to draw larger bodied matchups on the outside where height really makes up for the lack of lateral space in either direction. Which is why your classic 'X' receivers are usually big, physical type of guys - Mike Evans, Devante, Metcalf, etc etc. 

 Slot matchups might present a less physical problem.  Downside - being closer to the box and being involved in the run fit.  Silver lining, the improvements along the Dline and (hopefully in the near future) linebacker helping to soften the blow of that potential issue.  Moving Ward inside on occasion where the matchup would be most favorable makes this secondary stronger as a whole. 

@fy56 said:

I'm not sure if thats true these days. I'm no expert on the Steelrs drafts, but I know they have had some early round disappointments and busts in Delvin Bush and Jarvis Jones, both LB's...a position they used to draft well in. Then there's this OG...Kendrick Greene. I think they benched him. Mason Randolf blows.

They did get a gem in TJ Watt though. Fuck them regardless.

Good point about these days!  Aside from your points above - they also haven't had the same type of Offensive Line they used to run the ball extremely well behind or protect the passer with. I was talking/thinking the 70s through about their last Super Bowl appearance vrs GB in 2011.  In that span, they had a Super Bowl record of 6-1 with 2 QBs they drafted. They've always set the tone from the top with a philosophy of who they are; and they drafted accordingly. I think they're on the 3rd generation of Rooney today and the era has changed as well as the size of salary caps.  All of a sudden Cleveland goes to Pittsburgh in the playoffs and wins scoring 48 points and forcing 4 INTs and 5 or 6 turnovers.

Having said all that, we can all laugh at me later and even now when I say I have a very creepy feeling Pickett is going to be a very good QB for them. They went 5-2 in his last 7 games with 2 comeback wins in the final minute.  During that span, he only threw 1 INT.  I really hope I'm wrong about this feeling.  I'm so sick of that franchise.  Then we had to watch a guy we all appreciated as a Cleveland Brown (Ozzie Newsome) direct Baltimore to 2 Super Bowl wins.  Even worse, while he's allegedly retired - guess who was at the combines with a stop watch up in his press box?  I think he's still doing a lot of the same stuff he did for the Rats before he retired.  I think we saw with Phil Savage - it's not that easy to ask someone else to be Ozzie.  

Now that we're talking about how things have changed... If anyone would have told me our FO was going to acquire/sign the volume of players they did this offseason (aside from the draft) to improve weaknesses and depth; I would have said I'll believe it when I see it. 

@fy56 said:

LOL "Hospital Ward".

Speaking of hospital wards...I don't think Clowney ever played a full season in his career. Glad he got the pink slip.

Yup!

@nickers said:

Let me also add.. I wouldn't trade Chubb for all the riches in the universe.. IMHO.. Best back we have had since the great Jimmy Brown.. Now that said... If they want Ward and another throw in a pick?.. I'm all in... If I had a car that ran like Hospital Ward.. I'd deal him.. You don't hang on to Lemons unless your piss poor broke.... Availability is everything...

LOL "Hospital Ward".

Speaking of hospital wards...I don't think Clowney ever played a full season in his career. Glad he got the pink slip.

@flugel said:

Nice job with that Nicks!  Since the 70s, that ownership/ownership family has always had the philosophy that you build through the draft. That's always given them a healthier cap when they were out-drafting everyone in the division before Ozzie Newsome was orchestrating the drafts in Ratville.  

I'm not sure if thats true these days. I'm no expert on the Steelrs drafts, but I know they have had some early round disappointments and busts in Delvin Bush and Jarvis Jones, both LB's...a position they used to draft well in. Then there's this OG...Kendrick Greene. I think they benched him. Mason Randolf blows.

They did get a gem in TJ Watt though. Fuck them regardless.

@syd said:

I love Chubb but i would for a  Herschel Walker kinda trade 

he is a lock down corner  on man to man coverage he can shut down one side of the field so fuck the zone or putting him in the slot(where he can get concussed)

Hes never available when you really need him.. Fuck Ward...

@nickers said:

. I wouldn't trade Chubb for all the riches in the universe

I love Chubb but i would for a  Herschel Walker kinda trade 

@nickers said:

If I had a car that ran like Hospital Ward.

he is a lock down corner  on man to man coverage he can shut down one side of the field so fuck the zone or putting him in the slot(where he can get concussed)

@flugel said:

Nice job with that Nicks!  Since the 70s, that ownership/ownership family has always had the philosophy that you build through the draft. That's always given them a healthier cap when they were out-drafting everyone in the division before Ozzie Newsome was orchestrating the drafts in Ratville.  

Let me also add.. I wouldn't trade Chubb for all the riches in the universe.. IMHO.. Best back we have had since the great Jimmy Brown.. Now that said... If they want Ward and another throw in a pick?.. I'm all in... If I had a car that ran like Hospital Ward.. I'd deal him.. You don't hang on to Lemons unless your piss poor broke.... Availability is everything...

@nickers said:

I don't see him in pisspuke... They're too cheap and they do a great job growing their own...  What would the Browns have to do to acquire him.. Trade Chubb?.. No thanks... I like our team as it is constituted currently..

Nice job with that Nicks!  Since the 70s, that ownership/ownership family has always had the philosophy that you build through the draft. That's always given them a healthier cap when they were out-drafting everyone in the division before Ozzie Newsome was orchestrating the drafts in Ratville.  

@fy56 said:

We're among the top 3 rumors!

Aaron Donald Trade Rumors: Potential Landing Sports (2023) (wisportsheroics.com)

I don't see him in pisspuke... They're too cheap and they do a great job growing their own...  What would the Browns have to do to acquire him.. Trade Chubb?.. No thanks... I like our team as it is constituted currently..

Aaron Donald Trade Rumors: Potential Landing Sports (2023) (wisportsheroics.com)

@calfoxwc said:

don't forget texie - another one of the thread screwer-uppers.

You want to try another cowardly fishing expedition calamine cal? Your old ones are getting boringly bad.??

@dutch-oven said:

His clique is in full force. ?

So on paper, the Browns seem to have done a helluva job addressing the DLine, which all of us were praying for. Schwartz is an upgrade as DC.

But damn it Flugs, I just can't shake the pessimism going into the season. I've been burned so many times. I mean, I'm excited we are two months out, but I just can't bring myself to think this team is winning 10 or more games. I think the Browns have broke me. ?

Our history somewhat reminds us to align our thinking with a "I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed."  BUT, let's face it - we wouldn't watch every game they play if we really thought they weren't capable of winning more than the coin toss.  Reality is, the Browns were 11-5 in 2020 and 9-8 in 2021.  If the Browns didn't neglect the IDL/DT so much last year - they probably wouldn't have lost 3-4 LBers to IR; while they probably would have beaten Atlanta.  They might have also beaten the Jets instead of themselves.  Going into that 2020 season, I was most worried our LBer Corps. 11 wins later plus a playoff W - they never prevented this team from winning.

In short, a bad football team in Cleveland today is no longer the hopeless 1-31 football team it used to be.  It's now a 9-8 or a 7-10 football team that did an impressive job of addressing the weaknesses. Like you,  I wish I knew what it will translate to in terms of wins and losses against a brutal schedule.  We'll have guys coming off the edge like Myles Garrett, Za'Darius Smith, Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Isaiah McGuire and possibly a more experienced version of Alex Wright or Isaiah Thomas. Adding Tomlinson and Ika to DT and other veterans to compete with Winfrey and Elliott for starting jobs and/or reps in the active rotation removes a lot of the free space and forfeiture.  All this up front only helps the LBers.  Meatball on spaghetti, Schwartz is the DC in charge of all the sic em, sock em and sack em.  I think this helps our enthusiasm as fans quite a bit.

@syd said:

fuck cal thought your gonna keep it to football here,guess you just can't help yourself 

Yes, it's just another example of Cal bringing one of his lingering poli board hostilities into the football board.  Aggies only talks football in here. 

Speaking of football, the Hall of Fame Game the Browns will be playing in is less than a month away.   It'll be fun to what some of the newcomers and draftees look like.