@orion said:

Imagine if he was fleet afoot.  I mean, he had everything else you need.  He was tall, smart (never fooled by a defense), a strong enough arm, accurate enough...and a real 'team' guy.  He'd do anything for his team mates.  He'd be in the HOF.

Agreed!

@nickers said:

I always called Bernie "Pizza Feet"

Imagine if he was fleet afoot.  I mean, he had everything else you need.  He was tall, smart (never fooled by a defense), a strong enough arm, accurate enough...and a real 'team' guy.  He'd do anything for his team mates.  He'd be in the HOF.

@orion said:

Truth.  Perhaps we were the first team to put the guarantee in writing because we have Trigguh-Finguh-Jimmuh.  (although he does that only to HC's & GM's)

....and don't ever call Bernie a Clod again.     Big Bird, ok.  Clod, no.  

I always called Bernie "Pizza Feet"

@ballpeen said:

Watson is maybe the 6th highest paid QB.  As for the guarantee, all those contracts are guaranteed. Teams don't release those QB's. 

Truth.  Perhaps we were the first team to put the guarantee in writing because we have Trigguh-Finguh-Jimmuh.  (although he does that only to HC's & GM's)

....and don't ever call Bernie a Clod again.     Big Bird, ok.  Clod, no.  

@texasag1969 said:

Ah, ballpeen we already have cal to give us multiple explanations in a row. One is enough. LOL!?

haha...well, when someone doesn't seem to understand, I feel the need to clarify.  If you don't need the clarification, just move on.  That is what I do.  It saves time.

@nickers said:

For what we gave up to get him... And the money were paying him... No excuses... I'm tired of if comes and but what ifs and all the other BS... We gave this asshole a kings ransom.. I expect a Kings ransom worth of results... You can't cheat your way to a championship... I'm not saying Watson has to do it all by himself.. Yes I know its a team fucking game... If he proves me wrong.. Great then we all win... Until that happens.. Or not... It's all talk to me... Yeah.. I make no bones about it.. I don't like Haslam.. And I don't like Watson.. But as my father always said... Assholes will eventually find each other...

LOL....I have always said that assholes always release a lot of gas....

As for what we are paying...just look around the league.  Watson is maybe the 6th highest paid QB.  As for the guarantee, all those contracts are guaranteed. Teams don't release those QB's.  All of them play out the full term.  Even if they get hurt the team stick with them for a few years.  I think you are getting fluffed up over a word and not looking at the reality of the matter.

As for not liking him or Haslam, I can respect that.

@ballpeen said:

My reply said I don't disagree.

My point is if we are going to hold individual players as complete failures as Nickers suggests, in this case Watson, then we need to do that with everybody.  Not just single out one player we may not like.  I like all the players I previously mentioned, but if winning the Superbowl is the standard of measure, none measure up and were complete failures, again, if winning the Superbowl is the measure of success.

Hopefully that makes it clear.

To make it clearer, I don't think you can hold any one individual accountable for a Superbowl win.  Teams are who win a Superbowl.  Same with losing.  You win as a team, you lose as a team.  End of story.

Ah, ballpeen we already have cal to give us multiple explanations in a row. One is enough. LOL!?

@ballpeen said:

My reply said I don't disagree.

My point is if we are going to hold individual players as complete failures as Nickers suggests, in this case Watson, then we need to do that with everybody.  Not just single out one player we may not like.  I like all the players I previously mentioned, but if winning the Superbowl is the standard of measure, none measure up and were complete failures, again, if winning the Superbowl is the measure of success.

Hopefully that makes it clear.

To make it clearer, I don't think you can hold any one individual accountable for a Superbowl win.  Teams are who win a Superbowl.  Same with losing.  You win as a team, you lose as a team.  End of story.

For what we gave up to get him... And the money were paying him... No excuses... I'm tired of if comes and but what ifs and all the other BS... We gave this asshole a kings ransom.. I expect a Kings ransom worth of results... You can't cheat your way to a championship... I'm not saying Watson has to do it all by himself.. Yes I know its a team fucking game... If he proves me wrong.. Great then we all win... Until that happens.. Or not... It's all talk to me... Yeah.. I make no bones about it.. I don't like Haslam.. And I don't like Watson.. But as my father always said... Assholes will eventually find each other...

@orion said:

Which of course, is not true.  Else we have a complete failure currently being enshrined in the HOF.

My reply said I don't disagree.

My point is if we are going to hold individual players as complete failures as Nickers suggests, in this case Watson, then we need to do that with everybody.  Not just single out one player we may not like.  I like all the players I previously mentioned, but if winning the Superbowl is the standard of measure, none measure up and were complete failures, again, if winning the Superbowl is the measure of success.

Hopefully that makes it clear.

To make it clearer, I don't think you can hold any one individual accountable for a Superbowl win.  Teams are who win a Superbowl.  Same with losing.  You win as a team, you lose as a team.  End of story.

@orion said:

Which of course, is not true.  Else we have a complete failure currently being enshrined in the HOF.

My reply said I don't disagree.

My point is if we are going to hold individual players as complete failures as Nickers suggests, in this case Watson, then we need to do that with everybody.  Not just single out one player we may not like.  I like all the players I previously mentioned, but if winning the Superbowl is the standard of measure, none measure up and were complete failures.

Hopefully that makes it clear.

To make it clearer, I don't think you can hold any one individual accountable for a Superbowl win.  Teams are who win a Superbowl.  Same with losing.  You win as a team, you lose as a team.  End of story.

@orion said:

Which of course, is not true.  Else we have a complete failure currently being enshrined in the HOF.

My reply said I don't disagree.

My point is if we are going to hold individual players as complete failures as Nickers suggests, in this case Watson, then we need to do that with everybody.  Not just single out one player we may not like.  I like all the players I previously mentioned, but if winning the Superbowl is the standard of measure, none measure up and were complete failures.

Hopefully that makes it clear.

To make it clearer, I don't think you can hold any one individual accountable for a Superbowl win.  Teams are who win a Superbowl.  Same with losing.

@orion said:

Which of course, is not true.  Else we have a complete failure currently being enshrined in the HOF.

My reply said I don't disagree.

My point is if we are going to hold individual players as complete failures as Nickers suggests, in this case Watson, then we need to do that with everybody.  Not just single out one player we may not like.  I like all the players I previously mentioned, but if winning the Superbowl is the standard of measure, none measure up and were complete failures.

Hopefully that makes it clear.

@orion said:

Geezuz that's harsh.  Bernie gave his heart and soul for our team.  He took us to multiple AFC Championship games.  

Only one team can win the super bowl.  So, I guess, every other team should cut everyone on the team and start from scratch.

ballpeen is making the same exact point you are.

Re-read what he said. 

@orion said:

Geezuz that's harsh.  Bernie gave his heart and soul for our team.  He took us to multiple AFC Championship games.  

Only one team can win the super bowl.  So, I guess, every other team should cut everyone on the team and start from scratch.

Cowboys haven't won one in 28 years. You can hear desperation in Jerry Jones these days. Never should have run off his former Arky roommate.

@ballpeen said:

What did Sipe do...he didn't win a Superbowl, he's a schmuck.

Bernie, he didn't win, he is just a clod.

Geezuz that's harsh.  Bernie gave his heart and soul for our team.  He took us to multiple AFC Championship games.  

Only one team can win the super bowl.  So, I guess, every other team should cut everyone on the team and start from scratch.

@ballpeen said:

I have often said that anything but a Superbowl win is a failed season. So if we are going to stick it on individual players, all of our players since the 1964 championship team have been complete failures.

Exactly.

People trying to make the next few years out to be a special kind of fuck up, even worse than the usual non-Super Bowl winning Browns seasons all tend to be guys who were solidly on the Baker Bandwagon. 

Now, that doesn't mean we can't look at the trade as a bad one, don't get that twisted. But this team wasn't winning poop with Baker or some middling rookie QB the Browns would have had without the Watson trade either. 

@orion said:

Which of course, is not true.  Else we have a complete failure currently being enshrined in the HOF.

I don't disagree, but if we apply Nicks criteria for Watson, it sure is.  Joe Thomas didn't win us a Superbowl, or even come close for that matter.  He was a player on some of the worst teams in NFL history.  

What did Sipe do...he didn't win a Superbowl, he's a schmuck.

Bernie, he didn't win, he is just a clod.

Clay Matthews, no wonder he isn't in the HOF, he didn't win anything. They should just remove his name from the HOF ballot.

Those guys didn't do anything more to help us win.  They are all pretty much the same as Jim Bundren or Zukaskis.

@ballpeen said:

all of our players since the 1964 championship team have been complete failures.

Which of course, is not true.  Else we have a complete failure currently being enshrined in the HOF.

@nickers said:

If he doesn't bring us a SB its a complete failure to me.. Period!

I have often said that anything but a Superbowl win is a failed season. So if we are going to stick it on individual players, all of our players since the 1964 championship team have been complete failures.

@dutch-oven said:

because of the draft picks used

Just imagine: We could have kept the picks and taken Malik Willis or Desmond Ridder 2 rounds too early and paired him with Cole Strange, who's doing just fine.

@nickers said:

We always win it on paper... Or win the off season

I used to say, We're extremely entertaining in the offseason.  But then, the regular season starts....and we're not entertaining at all.

That, of course, changed when Stefanski was hired.  

Last year, Roger GoToHell screwed us over by not adhering to the new sentence administrator who said 6 weeks and instead took our QB away for 11 weeks.  Hopefully we screw Roger to the tune of a SB victory.

As compared to what? The first 50+ Super Bowl seasons pre-Watson that the Browns didn't win either? 

@nickers said:

We always win it on paper... Or win the off season... I'm sick of visits to the playoffs.. Saw a bunch in the 80's I want the whole monty... or it's just another wasted season for me...

To me it is very situational, I felt like we pissed away a great opportunity with the Chiefs divisional game.  I said it then too the opportunity was there.   But Looking back, appearing in or winning a Super Bowl with Baker was probably out of the question unless you had a perfect storm.  
 

The 80s no question, 88 team I believe that was a missed opportunity.  The 87 Browns team may have had problems with the Giants Defense. 
 

I will be disappointed if this core Browns team- Chubb, Watson, Garrett do not get to a Super Bowl. 

@texasag1969 said:

I don't know about that, but according to Fans (as in fanatic) every August the Browns win the SB and the Aggies win the N.C.?

We always win it on paper... Or win the off season... I'm sick of visits to the playoffs.. Saw a bunch in the 80's I want the whole monty... or it's just another wasted season for me...