@flugel said:

Here's what we'll probably see.  Nick Harris is the 1st back-up Center and Wypler is the 1st back-up Guard

I see it that way too.  At least for now.

Last year's OL was not as efficient as some previous years.

@orion said:

...it says we have 27 defensive players and 23 offensive players.  3 centers and no backup guards.  (and Nick Harris should not backup anywhere but center)  We DO however, have a G on the PS and 1 on Reserve / Non-Football Illness.

? Thank you!   I'm not worried about it and I doubt OL Coach Callahan is either.  Last year at this time there were people worried about Pocic and telling us he had a ho-hum career thus far. I think he did pretty freakin good for us when it all played out.

Here's what we'll probably see.  Nick Harris is the 1st back-up Center and Wypler is the 1st back-up Guard regardless of what the last minute hurry to post a depth chart says. If we need 2 back-up Guards to replace 2 Pro Bowl Guards in 1 game or more?  That's a great big UH-OH! The reasoning for Harris being the Center, is that Centers usually make all of the line calls and he's been in Stefanski's Offense since 2020 (good running game awaiting similar balance from the passing game).  He was the projected starting Center in 2022 before his season ending injury in the preseason.  As a rookie backup Guard, Wypler won't have to be responsible for making all the line calls if he's thrown into a game on top of knowing what he has to do at OG.  

Both guys did play OG in the preseason games; and I saw what I expected to see. Wypler made the adjustment from Center to Guard a little bit easier.  Something like that doesn't necessarily mean he's the better Center though.  Harris establishes immediate leverage and positioning at the snap much better at Center than he does this at Guard at his compact height of 6'1".  I'm not sure who will be a better Center long term between Harris and Wypler; but I understand the comfort of putting Harris in there 1st right now.  The difference between them playing in a regular season game vrs that of the preseason is they will have an experienced guy to the left and right of them.  None of this makes me feel better about the loss of Michael Dunn; but I do feel comfortable with both of these fellers.

My biggest worry on the OL is stuck on pause at the Left Tackle spot.  I'm not gonna say the plan is as bad as Saddam Hussein counting on his 65-70 year old Security Guards as his last line of protection against American Troops.  That said, there's a guaranteed 230 million $ contract leading our passing game that is going to be counting heavily on protection from the blind side Tackle. I hope Wills is up to the challenge.  

@flugel said:

The roster I'm looking at says

...it says we have 27 defensive players and 23 offensive players.  3 centers and no backup guards.  (and Nick Harris should not backup anywhere but center)  We DO however, have a G on the PS and 1 on Reserve / Non-Football Illness.

@nickers said:

Goodwin is old and not as fast as he used to be.. its a wash in my eyes....

Can he get open and catch the ball?  If so, it's not a wash (for Schwartz).  We shall see.

@ballpeen said:

LOL....my bad..I googled Godwin.  Sorry about that.  Thanks for the correction.

LOL!  No worries.  The main thing is the guy still has elite speed that can take the top off a defense.   I'm sure a lot of us remember Washington's corner (Darrell Green) that had elite speed which enabled him to play at a high level for 19 years.  I don't remember very much of a drop-off late in his career either.  Most of this is God-given; but sustaining it for a length like that probably included quite a strength and conditioning program.  

@flugel said:

The roster I'm looking at says he has 9 years of NFL experience. If that's true and he's 27 - that means he was on an NFL roster when he was 18years old?  Flugel gonna Google for our answer.  Okay, it says he's 32 years old.  On November 19th he'll be 33.

He's still fast though...

LOL....my bad..I googled Godwin.  Sorry about that.  Thanks for the correction.

@ballpeen said:

He is older and probably not as fast, but he is still fast.  In checking he is 27.  30 is the normal benchmark teams look at.

The roster I'm looking at says he has 9 years of NFL experience. If that's true and he's 27 - that means he was on an NFL roster when he was 18years old?  Flugel gonna Google for our answer.  Okay, it says he's 32 years old.  On November 19th he'll be 33.

He's still fast though...

@ballpeen said:

That is why we brought in Schwartz.  He just didn't work out.  Goodwin is the speed a team needs.  We have some guys who have decent speed but they have to shake their coverage, they can't just run past them.  Goodwin can.  Unlike Schwartz, he can actually catch the ball so safeties are going have to respect him more than they did Schwartz.

Goodwin is old and not as fast as he used to be.. its a wash in my eyes....

@turkey-jones said:

If he does return hopefully the "bad penny" syndrome won't be in effect.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/report-bengals-add-former-browns-running-back-demetric-felton-to-practice-squad

Sure just in time to give all of our play calls away...

@orion said:

Finally, Felton is gone.  But I bet, like a bad penny, he'll be back.

If he does return hopefully the "bad penny" syndrome won't be in effect.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/report-bengals-add-former-browns-running-back-demetric-felton-to-practice-squad

hopefully we see some of this and the guys throwing to him are probably selling insurance now 

@sdbacker80 said:

Goodwin is a veteran WR (that can hopefully stay healthy) and beat man coverage when he’s in the game.  I can envision  8-10 times during the season - 1st Quarter send him long and make the safeties respect the entire field and think about something over their head during the course of the game.  He’s a decoy with a different skill set than what we have and hopefully we are able to put something on tape so guys like Moore, DPJ and Bell can win underneath. 
 

He was the contingency plan of Schwartz didn’t work out so this was some good planning on the FOs part.  
 

If you go further back in the stat line his time in SF looks good.  Looks like they took some deep play-action shots downfield with him

That is why we brought in Schwartz.  He just didn't work out.  Goodwin is the speed a team needs.  We have some guys who have decent speed but they have to shake their coverage, they can't just run past them.  Goodwin can.  Unlike Schwartz, he can actually catch the ball so safeties are going have to respect him more than they did Schwartz.

@sdbacker80 said:

Goodwin is a veteran WR (that can hopefully stay healthy) and beat man coverage when he’s in the game.  I can envision  8-10 times during the season - 1st Quarter send him long and make the safeties respect the entire field and think about something over their head during the course of the game.  He’s a decoy with a different skill set than what we have and hopefully we are able to put something on tape so guys like Moore, DPJ and Bell can win underneath. 
 

He was the contingency plan of Schwartz didn’t work out so this was some good planning on the FOs part.  
 

If you go further back in the stat line his time in SF looks good.  Looks like they took some deep play-action shots downfield with him

I like your points SdB80.  The elephant in the room wants to remind us SF has a great offensive mind running the show that we're still awaiting in Cleveland.  You can manipulate the Safeties - when you're Lindy Infante running the offense and calling the plays in Cleveland. We've seen it until the time Marty decided to keep Infante's playbook after he became a HC in GB.  Marty's brother became the guy calling the plays without nearly the same understanding of purpose of the design. Next thing we know, the Browns were getting delay of game calls because this wasn't his world.  We would learn the hard way that the reality was a lot worse than a seemingly good idea. Not only that, the Browns were in FG position for an easy 3 points with 1 or 2 timeouts left on MNF vrs Houston; and time expired in the 1st half on them. That expedited the feud between Marty and Modell.  I don't want to get too far off base with that to the extent the discussion takes a different path. We also had Kyle Shanahan doing a nice job of manipulating the safeties even when he had a journeyman QB like Brian Hoyer throwing the ball.

Like most other years in Cleveland, guys we're excited to see - can get hurt and miss significant time.  I'll start this off with I think Peoples-Jones is a fine deep threat.  He's just awaiting the right QB to tap it more frequently.  Having said that, what happens if our best all around WR (Cooper) that can run every route with precision gets hurt?  Are we gonna be comfortable with a guy who's best routes are just deep straight ahead sprints all the time?  Defenses are gonna blitz the crap out of this on the edge we're counting on Wills to protect. 2-3 bad things can happen when a QB needs more pocket time with a shaky blind side tackle: offensive holding or QB sacks or both.  Hopefully, Wills has put in the work this off-season and this is just wasted blow-hard by me.  Wouldn't be the 1st time.  What I like about Watkins was his ability to run some of the different routes extremely well and punctuate that with catches.  This young player seems like he's off to a great start - so I'm glad to see he was retained on our practice squad.  It seems like he made more of an immediate positive impression on us than a guy I was excited we drafted last year - David Bell.  I want to see another Brian Brennan here who we remember more than our deep threat Reggie Langhorne.  Both important, but the beneficiary of stretching the D over the top made w/Langhorne made Brennan's consistency and reliability on 3rd downs an expectation.  That's 1 thing about Goodwin's value over the top that I liked you pointing out above - we'll have some beneficiaries underneath.

Those were some of my worries from following a team that's trained us well to worry.  The good news is I'm wrong with a Ralph Cramden caliber consistency in here...

@flugel said:

Those are some good points you made. I still think the Browns probably had a pre-set volume of WRs they wanted to keep (but alter for the reasons you noted).  I like Goodwin's speed and all; but his usage the last 3 years he played seems a little limited to me per stats copied and pasted below.  2 of the last 3 years he only scored 1 TD and had a longest reception of 38 yards.  I don't know how fast Watkins is; but he impressed a lot of us every time we saw him play.  The job is to get open and catch the ball - or catch the ball when covered well. Watkins looked like he did all that extremely well when given the opportunities. Schwartz often ran himself into coverage when he was open or he dropped the ball when he remained open.  The Browns kept him around for 3 years while nothing about him jumped off the screen that said "THIS GUY IS A FOOTBALL PLAYER."  Please give me a WR like Brian Brennan over someone that can just run fast.  Maybe they're thinking David Bell can develop into something like that. We shall see...

Goodwin is a veteran WR (that can hopefully stay healthy) and beat man coverage when he’s in the game.  I can envision  8-10 times during the season - 1st Quarter send him long and make the safeties respect the entire field and think about something over their head during the course of the game.  He’s a decoy with a different skill set than what we have and hopefully we are able to put something on tape so guys like Moore, DPJ and Bell can win underneath. 
 

He was the contingency plan of Schwartz didn’t work out so this was some good planning on the FOs part.  
 

If you go further back in the stat line his time in SF looks good.  Looks like they took some deep play-action shots downfield with him

@ballpeen said:

I never knew your age, but I know mine and figured that I am at least 25 or more years older than the average poster in here.  I remember events, sports and otherwise from the 50's first hand, not just reading about it in some book or article.  I thought you possibly had seen some Hogans Heros reruns, if not first hand.

Bonanza and Gun Smoke, my good man. Had you cited those we would have been on the exact same page ?

@ballpeen said:

I never knew your age, but I know mine and figured that I am at least 25 or more years older than the average poster in here.  I remember events, sports and otherwise from the 50's first hand, not just reading about it in some book or article.  I thought you possibly had seen some Hogans Heros reruns, if not first hand.

You you can always tell a persons age when they act like a "Know it all".. Then proceed to rub it in your face like some clever smart ass... Wheres a Capt Obvious meme when ya need one

@tiamat63 said:

 Oh no, there is a process to this machine. On its face, football is a simple game that boils down to,  as Lombardi once said - "blocking and tackling".  

But The subtle intricacies and complexity that also co-exist beyond the surface of that comments is what makes this game the greatest of all. 

Had to look up Sgt Shultz. I think you guys forget I'm half your age. 

Edit:  and yes, every front office have methods and chains to their decision making.  Doesn't always mean it's good or right, of course.  But at least there are gears turning. 

I never knew your age, but I know mine and figured that I am at least 25 or more years older than the average poster in here.  I remember events, sports and otherwise from the 50's first hand, not just reading about it in some book or article.  I thought you possibly had seen some Hogans Heros reruns, if not first hand.

@ballpeen said:

I get it.  So would I.

You seem to be more in tune than I on such matters, but even if you were the man in charge, there would be multitudes of people thinking you know nothing..you remember Sgt Schultz don't you?  LOL

In the end I just have to trust that even if the decisions don't work out, they were thought out and talked through.  I like to think there is some sort of reasoning behind decisions and Berry isn't just throwing a dart at a list of names, picking the one he hits dead center.

 Oh no, there is a process to this machine. On its face, football is a simple game that boils down to,  as Lombardi once said - "blocking and tackling".  

But The subtle intricacies and complexity that also co-exist beyond the surface of that comments is what makes this game the greatest of all. 

Had to look up Sgt Shultz. I think you guys forget I'm half your age. 

Edit:  and yes, every front office have methods and chains to their decision making.  Doesn't always mean it's good or right, of course.  But at least there are gears turning. 

@tiamat63 said:

It doesn't, but it's interesting to speculate, though I'm sure it doesn't take much to discern who the 4 are.

I can only speak for myself when I say, I would much prefer they get into contact with me about personnel decisions. ?

I get it.  So would I.

You seem to be more in tune than I on such matters, but even if you were the man in charge, there would be multitudes of people thinking you know nothing..you remember Sgt Schultz don't you?  LOL

In the end I just have to trust that even if the decisions don't work out, they were thought out and talked through.  I like to think there is some sort of reasoning behind decisions and Berry isn't just throwing a dart at a list of names, picking the one he hits dead center.

@ballpeen said:

LOl....and  in the end, does it really matter if we know? 

It doesn't, but it's interesting to speculate, though I'm sure it doesn't take much to discern who the 4 are.

@ballpeen said:

I've never had someone from the FO call to ask me if I agreed or approved.

Just saying...

I can only speak for myself when I say, I would much prefer they get into contact with me about personnel decisions. ?

@flugel said:

Those are some good points you made. I still think the Browns probably had a pre-set volume of WRs they wanted to keep (but alter for the reasons you noted).  I like Goodwin's speed and all; but his usage the last 3 years he played seems a little limited to me per stats copied and pasted below.  2 of the last 3 years he only scored 1 TD and had a longest reception of 38 yards.  I don't know how fast Watkins is; but he impressed a lot of us every time we saw him play.  The job is to get open and catch the ball - or catch the ball when covered well. Watkins looked like he did all that extremely well when given the opportunities. Schwartz often ran himself into coverage when he was open or he dropped the ball when he remained open.  The Browns kept him around for 3 years while nothing about him jumped off the screen that said "THIS GUY IS A FOOTBALL PLAYER."  Please give me a WR like Brian Brennan over someone that can just run fast.  Maybe they're thinking David Bell can develop into something like that. We shall see...

We really only kept Schwartz for 2 seasons.  I don't count camps as seasons.

@tiamat63 said:

Google says to look for the guys with a '!' above their heads.  

.... I think they might be giving me instructions on how to play Zelda? 

LOl....and  in the end, does it really matter if we know?  I've never had someone from the FO call to ask me if I agreed or approved.

Just saying...

NFL practice squad salaries: Minimum salary, eligibility rules & more to know for 2023 (msn.com)