if we knew then what we know now it would change a lot of the posts on page one. he only had 11 carries...and had 57 yards, injured.

Jamal Lewis is underrated.

@flugel said:

I know 5 FGs doesn't sound wonderful vrs Buffalo BUT if he threw 1 INT during any of those drives - we lose a close game and don't finish with 29 points. Jay Cutler had the SAME Buffalo team on their heels in a game he needed to win for his team. He threw an INT on their last drive in the red zone so they lost a heartbreaker, which NOW meant they had to go beat SD the next week to qualify for the playoffs. We know how that went.

- Tom F.

sure it would've hurt more if Quinn threw picks but let's be real: we won that game because Rian Lindell missed a 47 yard field goal.

@cmac12 said:

Brady Quinn CLE 14 36 185 0 0 23 VS Buffalo 2nd start.

Is that the game that you are using as an example of a good game? 5 FGs, a 72 yard run by harrison and a 2 yard run by cribbs after one of Edwards 3 interceptions. The defense and running gamePhil "Big Head" Dawson won this game. I would not use it as an example of what BQ can do.

here's a breakdown of that game i did a few months back. it speaks for itself and i agree, while it's his only win i feel it's a bad example to use to show Quinn in a positive light.

the first possession he benefited from the Wimbley INT, then the offense stalled and they punted.

then the Andra Davis' INT, which thankfully yielded a 40 yarder from Dawson.

the defense held them and they punted, but then we punted too.

next, B-Mac intercepts>>and Dawson hits from 33 yards.

6 points from 2 FG's in 5 possessions after 3 HUGE defensive plays in the form of INTs doesn't get it done in todays NFL.

following that the defense holds them again and they punt>>>Brady finally sustains a nice drive all the way down to the two where Cribbs gets airborne for the TD.

on the next drive Buffalo scores and it's CLE 13--BUF 7.

we punt, Buf kicks field goal. CLE 13--BUF 10.

next we punt, B-Mac forces fumble and Ahtyba Rubin recovers, yields another Dawson 43 yard FG.

Buffalo antes up>>CLE 16--BUF 13.

Harrison scored our last TD to this day, the 72 yarder but it's a wash because McKelvin runs back the kickoff 98 yards CLE 23--BUF 20.

Quinn settles for another Dawson FG from 22, after several overthrown passes nearly kill the drive multiple times. in fact, a penalty kept it alive.

the Browns force the Bills to punt...but then punt again themselves.

Buffalo rallies and T. Edwards sneaks it in himself for the TD>> CLE 26--BUF 27 uh oh!

next series Quinn is consistently inconsistent and after K2 goes out of bounds after a pass at the BUF 39 another series of incomplete passes leaves it 4th down with Dawson kicking a 56 AND HE MAKES IT!! CLE 29--BUF 27.

Lynch rushes the Bills into FG range but they miss their opportunity at a 47 yarder>>CLE wins. or for some around here>>>Quinn wins.

@moonlitknight said:

You're either 10yrs old or an idiot, or both!!

@moonlitknight said:

How many reps did Quinn get with the first string in training camp? There ya go!!!!!!

I can bring them up and leave them with Stan if he agrees and then meet up with him for the Steelers game on Thursday to collect the cash.

If not, we can find a way to work it out..

Zombo... you up for a December trip to Cleveland?

@mark-o said:

Are you going to the Chargers game on December 6th?

No Marko, not making that one. I am going to the Steeler game the following Thursday night...not enough turn around time to drive home on Monday and turn around and head back Wed afternoon...and to be honest..don't feel like holing up in a hotel Sun, Mon, Tue, and Wed in December in Cleveland..I can come back here to Chattanooga and have at least a 50/50 shot of being able to get in a round or two of golf on any of those days as at least 1-2 of those days will probably have a high around 50 or better.

45-50, sun, and low wind is a nice winter golf day, and we get lots of those all winter long.

@ballpeen said:

It is like reading a book. Chapter by chapter your either get hooked or you become disinterested by one uneventful chapter after another.

This is a pretty big game for Brady because any author knows you need to set the hook early if they have hopes of people actually finishing the book. You have to grab them early, chapter after chapter....then add some of the filler stuff.

In football, bad games need to be about 1 out of every 4-5 games to be even a decent player. The really good ones don't have a dud but maybe every 10 games.

Now, I don't think brady can string 10 games...he isn't there yet nor may he ever be to that point, but he isn't a rookie either where you can sometimes expect a lot of flip flopping in how the guy plays. He hasn't had the game experience to this point, but his preparation is much further developed than would be a true rookie.

Add in that many last year were claiming that Brady would have been drafted ahead of Matt Ryan and we have a benchmark of sorts. I don't think it is beyond expectation to see Ryan like performances.

That doesn't mean the numbers have to be the same. It simply means we should see similar performance as it relates to the gameplan and the type of system we run.

We are on the same page here....it's too bad that most of the rest here can't be so rational.

Are you going to the Chargers game on December 6th?

No doubt.

It is like reading a book. Chapter by chapter your either get hooked or you become disinterested by one uneventful chapter after another.

This is a pretty big game for Brady because any author knows you need to set the hook early if they have hopes of people actually finishing the book. You have to grab them early, chapter after chapter....then add some of the filler stuff.

In football, bad games need to be about 1 out of every 4-5 games to be even a decent player. The really good ones don't have a dud but maybe every 10 games.

Now, I don't think brady can string 10 games...he isn't there yet nor may he ever be to that point, but he isn't a rookie either where you can sometimes expect a lot of flip flopping in how the guy plays. He hasn't had the game experience to this point, but his preparation is much further developed than would be a true rookie.

Add in that many last year were claiming that Brady would have been drafted ahead of Matt Ryan and we have a benchmark of sorts. I don't think it is beyond expectation to see Ryan like performances.

That doesn't mean the numbers have to be the same. It simply means we should see similar performance as it relates to the gameplan and the type of system we run.

Mike

If he looks shitty again this week, I'll become a bit more concerned.

@flugel said:

I'm not saying you're doing this Ballpeen but it sure seems like people are gettiogn pissed at the fans that WANT Quinn to justify his draft slot. That's a mega huge pick in terms of importance. It would be nice to see that work out because we've been playing musical QBs since Testaverde led us to the playoffs in the early 90s. That's a LONG time. I just want us to settle the damn position because the rule changes are makign this a QB league so we NEED one.

I agree the QB has to win whatever way he has to do it. It doesn't always have to be pretty as long as we're moving the chains, eating some clock, resting our D and getting points in the process. It all falls into place from there.

- Tom F.

I just want him to play well.

I don't care where he was drafted, or where he went to school, or where he gets his haircut.

As I said....it is way early and Minn is a stout D. He may have taken a few licks in the 1st round, but he is going 8-10 rounds minimum.

The next 2-3 games are against some mageable teams where we should get a few wins.

We will know a bit more 3-4 weeks from now.

Mangini is correct about the things Quinn did well. Am I the only one who noticed Quinn frequently changed plays? A very Bernie'esq move.

It looks as though Mangini is cutting him some slack because he sees potential or "up-side."

@greythan said:

Stan and Ballpeen are friggin classic.

Both spend all off season pining the boards about how folks should support the team and support DA.

Quinn's named the starter and both are fully convinced (and better yet VOCAL) about how he is awful.

Look in the mirror. If you, and those like minded, want balanced fans... start with yourselves. Quinn's the starter and we're going to get a good long look at him. Hell, read Mangini's comments from today's PD. Pretty complimentary on a performance that looked pretty bad from where I sat. Get on board boys.

@ballpeen said:

All along people were saying how NFL ready BQ was, how he had the "it" factor and could lead his team.

I didn't see any of that on display on Sunday.

Just saying

Do we go by his first 2 starts as the rule of thumb or the opener? Since we don't know that in our 1st round draft pick's 3rd season - the alternative was gettign worse with every start as 3-6 would reveal in 08. And btw, I think Mangini was more than fair to the alternative all preseason. And guess how many TD passes DA supported that with?

I'm not saying you're doing this Ballpeen but it sure seems like people are gettiogn pissed at the fans that WANT Quinn to justify his draft slot. That's a mega huge pick in terms of importance. It would be nice to see that work out because we've been playing musical QBs since Testaverde led us to the playoffs in the early 90s. That's a LONG time. I just want us to settle the damn position because the rule changes are makign this a QB league so we NEED one.

I agree the QB has to win whatever way he has to do it. It doesn't always have to be pretty as long as we're moving the chains, eating some clock, resting our D and getting points in the process. It all falls into place from there.

- Tom F.

I know BQ is the QB, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand. If he plays a poor game, it will be noted just as when he plays a good game it will be noted.

The first note is a poor game. In this game he did what Couch did many times in his career...pad up the numbers once the D is playing deep and giving short stuff. Take away the last 2 drives in who cares time and it wasn't pretty.

But..this is one game...far from long enough to establish a final conclusion...though i will say that bad games count like 3 good games because good games are expected and bad games aren't.

You can still have a good game in a losing effort.

All along people were saying how NFL ready BQ was, how he had the "it" factor and could lead his team.

I didn't see any of that on display on Sunday.

Just saying

It sucks, but Mangini didn't like the way the Jets did business. They rushed things along and wanted wins now(as BB warned). Mangini is reminded of his days with BB building up the Patriots, the first year was pretty bad, but it got alot of things accomplished that set the tone for the future and more of that change happened in 2001 which lead to increased benefits.

It sucks for us. Teams are going to run on us. We will get stuffed alot in the run game at times, other times we will run well. Quinn will have better games, some worse. Who knows if he is the future, but it is a year long evaluation.

Deal with it, except it and hope for overachievement.

Both spend all off season pining the boards about how folks should support the team and support DA.

Quinn's named the starter and both are fully convinced (and better yet VOCAL) about how he is awful.

Look in the mirror. If you, and those like minded, want balanced fans... start with yourselves. Quinn's the starter and we're going to get a good long look at him. Hell, read Mangini's comments from today's PD. Pretty complimentary on a performance that looked pretty bad from where I sat. Get on board boys.

@atenears said:

LOL! I just got 2 minute abs laughing at Atenears' new icon. He ain't right!

- Tom F.

Lewis being Lewis, I don't agree with a lot on here about Davis. He had a nice preseason and cold be a solid back in time, but he isn't the game changer either. He's a rookie and it will show in the real games.

Personally, I want to see Harrison more then Davis. Harrison used properly can be a game changer. Swing passes, screens, draw plays, quick pitches and let him get to the corner. But, he isn't a between the tackles type of guy. I'd like to see the Browns use him the way that Minn. used Harvin. Get him in space with the ball and get him in mismatches coming out of the backfield.

@cmac12 said:

Brady Quinn CLE 14 36 185 0 0 23 VS Buffalo 2nd start.

Is that the game that you are using as an example of a good game? 5 FGs, a 72 yard run by harrison and a 2 yard run by cribbs after one of Edwards 3 interceptions. The defense and running game won this game. I would not use it as an example of what BQ can do.

Thanks CMAC!

I know 5 FGs doesn't sound wonderful vrs Buffalo BUT if he threw 1 INT during any of those drives - we lose a close game and don't finish with 29 points. Jay Cutler had the SAME Buffalo team on their heels in a game he needed to win for his team. He threw an INT on their last drive in the red zone so they lost a heartbreaker, which NOW meant they had to go beat SD the next week to qualify for the playoffs. We know how that went.

- Tom F.

Brady Quinn CLE 14 36 185 0 0 23 VS Buffalo 2nd start.

Is that the game that you are using as an example of a good game? 5 FGs, a 72 yard run by harrison and a 2 yard run by cribbs after one of Edwards 3 interceptions. The defense and running game won this game. I would not use it as an example of what BQ can do.

@sez.ej said:

Thanks Sez! Good points.

I think I'm more open to Jamal if I know we're gonna give the other 2 RBs a chance as well. And who says we need a traditional FB in the backfield? I don't see why we don't put one of them (Davis or Harrison) on the field at the same time as Lewis the way we did with Mack and Byner. Mack actually ran 4.5 forties so he wasn't just here to block - and I think James Davis weighs about the same as Byner did (but he's faster). Using all 3 guys can prove to be invaluable because we're bound to find out which back matches up best with the opponent as the game is playing out. If we confine ourselves to just 1 guy that's scouted well, I think we limit our opportunity to attack their D some.

I think the Giants had a neat system for using 3 RBs last year. They used Jacobs as their #1, Derrick Ward was their 3rd down back and they usually saved the 4th quarter for Bradshaw to come in with fresh/quick legs while defenses were tired and worn down from their 1-2 punch. Pretty good rationale on their part IMO.

I think Mangini and BD will get it figured out.

- Tom F.