@atenears said:

My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.

Thanks for reminding me about our last QB capable of beating Pittsburgh. 2003 seems like SUCH a long time ago.

- Tom F.

@jason-j said:

There are five players highlighted in the photo. Both corners, the two safeties and the Mike linebacker. Their paths are showing you a base cover 3 (weak) shell. The strong safety is on the near hash at the 38 yard line. At the snap, he immediately drops out of the picture into his zone (15-20 yards off the ball in the middle of the field) Actually, he vacates before that -- just before the snap.

When Quinn comes back to his left, Cedric Griffin is over the top of Braylon Edwards.

Even if the fade was still on, it's off now. Edwards, being experienced, does the right thing. Reads the deep coverage and gives his quarterback an inside target. He actually presses him to the outside then turns to show Quinn his numbers. It's really well done.

Regardless of the call or the adjustments, if the corner is on top of the receiver the fade is off. Quinn's got to use his eyes. He's got to throw the ball on a line or back shoulder the throw. And that's a simple adjustment. If he sees the cornerback's name (facing away from the QB), he throws the fade stop (back shoulder). If he sees his face (facing the QB), he throws the ball on a line right between 1 and 7. Especially considering that the Free Safety has completely taken himself out of the play prowling and empty zone, and Quinn's look to the right flat held the strong safety short and in the middle of the field.

And don't overthink the safety being so shallow. That's a bit of a gimmick look, playing the SS in centerfield like that and the FS up. It might be just a reaction to the formation isolating the #1 receiver on the weak side. So when you have the strong safety back there, 1.) he's not that comfortable there, and 2.) no one entered his zone. There's no reason for him to come off his 15-20 yard drop. The next time we see him he enters the frame at about the 25 yard line, presumably after he re-directed when Quinn rotated back to the left. Regardless of what everyone else is doing, he's playing the middle 3rd. If he was single-high in man, he'd likely be over the top of the deepest receiver. In cover 3, he's only responsible for his 3rd of the field - the deep middle. And no one was there so he stayed closer to the line of scrimmage. That should lead you to conclude zone cover 3 vs. anything else.

-jj

That is some serious shit right there...Is JJ code for Ron Jaworski?

Very impressive. One thing that I like in the post game analysis and statements is that both Quinn and Edwards took the blame for the int. I'm more inclined to believe that Quinn made the mistake and the hope is that he learns from it and doesn't make that mistake again. If we expected a guy making his 4th NFL start to not make mistakes you were kidding yourself. Hopefully, he won't make that mistake again.

@cmac12 said:

You're right, and I think people just consider the Giants game a testimony to the "good Derek" and are frustrated he cannot produce even 3/4 of that for most games. Because the following week he took a rather large dump on the field vs. Washington. Well that, and he is 1-13 in games against playoff teams, and 3-9 in the AFCN. We as fans think we have DA figured out because it appears DC's have him figured out. With Quinn we just want to know WTF we have/don't have. Pulling for DA at this point seems like a practice in futility, and some of us are perplexed why DA is a better optiion at this point in time when you consider 2 years down the line. A year from now we could be having the same conversation about Quinn, but at least we'd know.

@shepwrite said:

What's the beef with Quinn, given that DA sucks that bad? Too good looking? I actually think that's an issue for some.

Get tired of reading about the last 18 starts of DAs career. Here is the last 18 starts of DAs career

Derek Anderson CLE 29 48 364 0 1 VS Seattle Win November 4, 2007

Derek Anderson CLE 16 35 123 3 0 VS Pittsburgh Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 24 38 274 0 1 VS Baltimore Win

Derek Anderson CLE 24 35 253 2 1 VS Houston Win

Derek Anderson CLE 21 41 304 2 2 VS Arizona Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 16 29 185 2 1 VS NY Jets Win

Derek Anderson CLE 9 24 137 0 0 VS Buffalo Win

Derek Anderson CLE 29 48 251 2 4 VS Cincinnati Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 11 20 152 1 1 VS SanFransico Win

Derek Anderson CLE 11 24 114 1 0 VS Dallas Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 18 32 166 0 2 VS Pittsburgh Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 14 37 125 1 3 VS Baltimore Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 15 24 138 1 1 VS Cincinannti Win

Derek Anderson CLE 18 29 310 2 0 VS NY Giants Win

Derek Anderson CLE 14 37 136 1 0 VS Washington Loss

Derek Anderson CLE 14 27 246 1 0 VS Jacksonville Win

Derek Anderson CLE 17 33 219 2 1 VS Baltimore Loss November 2, 2008

Derek Anderson CLE 16 26 110 0 0 VS Indy Loss November 30, 2008

Total Won Loss - 9 - 9

Those are not all bad games except the Giants game. Especially if you are not putting this last game as a poor performance by BQ.

Over the last 18 starts DA is 9 wins and 9 losses with a few very good games, a few average games and a few very bad games.

Has nothing to to with BQ but I get really tired of people making it seem like DA has not played a good game other than the Giants game in his last 18 starts. Overall over the last 18 games I would agree that DA has not been a great QB. But he has had more than 1 good game and the Browns record over his last 18 starts is 9 wins and 9 losses.

@jason-j said:

-jj

Dude WTF. Fix your shit. LOL... .

@jason-j said:

-jj

I was about to ask what happened to them...lol

Masters said:

Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.

-jj

And after watching this video, Quinn had the TE in motion open for the first down in the right flat.

lol....just saying.

@bronx-cheer said:

My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.

Ok, guys, look.

There are five players highlighted in the photo. Both corners, the two safeties and the Mike linebacker. Their paths are showing you a base cover 3 (weak) shell. The strong safety is on the near hash at the 38 yard line. At the snap, he immediately drops out of the picture into his zone (15-20 yards off the ball in the middle of the field) Actually, he vacates before that -- just before the snap.

When Quinn comes back to his left, Cedric Griffin is over the top of Braylon Edwards.

Even if the fade was still on, it's off now. Edwards, being experienced, does the right thing. Reads the deep coverage and gives his quarterback an inside target. He actually presses him to the outside then turns to show Quinn his numbers. It's really well done.

Regardless of the call or the adjustments, if the corner is on top of the receiver the fade is off. Quinn's got to use his eyes. He's got to throw the ball on a line or back shoulder the throw. And that's a simple adjustment. If he sees the cornerback's name (facing away from the QB), he throws the fade stop (back shoulder). If he sees his face (facing the QB), he throws the ball on a line right between 1 and 7. Especially considering that the Free Safety has completely taken himself out of the play prowling and empty zone, and Quinn's look to the right flat held the strong safety short and in the middle of the field.

And don't overthink the safety being so shallow. That's a bit of a gimmick look, playing the SS in centerfield like that and the FS up. It might be just a reaction to the formation isolating the #1 receiver on the weak side. So when you have the strong safety back there, 1.) he's not that comfortable there, and 2.) no one entered his zone. There's no reason for him to come off his 15-20 yard drop. The next time we see him he enters the frame at about the 25 yard line, presumably after he re-directed when Quinn rotated back to the left. Regardless of what everyone else is doing, he's playing the middle 3rd. If he was single-high in man, he'd likely be over the top of the deepest receiver. In cover 3, he's only responsible for his 3rd of the field - the deep middle. And no one was there so he stayed closer to the line of scrimmage. That should lead you to conclude zone cover 3 vs. anything else.

-jj

@dave said:

He wasn't through with his route. He moved in and out to sell his route, his final move back in. The same route Quinn threw to BE for a TD against Detroit this preseason. In, out, in, TD.

@bronx-cheer said:

If I'm not mistaken, Cover 3 in this case meant the CB gave BE the inside because he had deep 3rd responsibility (the opposite CB have that 3rd) and the Safety deep middle. The reason you don't see that Safety until late is because, as JJ said, Quinn looked right and that look brought the deep Safety over to that side. So if this is all correct, than the play BE had was inside on the CB. Thus Quinn mis-read the coverage. Not sure what he thought he saw on the right in terms of coverage, but it didn't translate to the left, that's for sure.

If it were man than Brady hits the fade and lets BE jump it. BE ran a pretty good route to sell it like it was man, and he had position - perfect position. In fact that looked like 6.

Cover 3 is 3 deep 3rds. It might look like man, but the corner giving him the inside, coupled with the other S coming up pre-snap covering the flat, gives an indication of Cover 3.

Masters said:

But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.

I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.

My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.

I just wish this was the old stadium, then I could have shut those 4 idiots up, dawg pound style.

@dave said:

I saw most of the Browns drives from the view of the umpire because the team was always going toward the west end zone. The lone exception was the Quinn interception. You wouldn't have been able to tell from watching on TV but the pass was thrown before Edwards was even 5 yards into his route. It was touch pass/lob that the receiver has to run under in the right spot to catch. Edwards never turned to look for the ball until he had pass the cornerback, as the cornerback broke outside to intercept the ball. There's no way Quinn could have been responsible, outside of physically walking over to Edwards and confirming the route he was going to run. At least from my angle, that's how I saw it.

One of the articles about covering Mangini's post game/Monday presser noted the parts on Mack. While not specifically saying high snaps, he seemed to allude to Mack having some struggles with the snaps and snap count.

On the INT, Jason covered it in another thread. It seems the read error was still on Quinn, in that he thought the coverage was man, but it was some sort of cover 3 (at least for the CB and safties). So BE going inside should have been the right "sight adjustment". Seems to me the kind of thing that a QB is only going to read correctly w/ time and experience under center.

****EDIT**** It's actually this thread Jason covered it in

I saw most of the Browns drives from the view of the umpire because the team was always going toward the west end zone. The lone exception was the Quinn interception. You wouldn't have been able to tell from watching on TV but the pass was thrown before Edwards was even 5 yards into his route. It was touch pass/lob that the receiver has to run under in the right spot to catch. Edwards never turned to look for the ball until he had pass the cornerback, as the cornerback broke outside to intercept the ball. There's no way Quinn could have been responsible, outside of physically walking over to Edwards and confirming the route he was going to run. At least from my angle, that's how I saw it.

@atenears said:

There aren't many to be made for him. He could not elevate his play against good teams, and didn't show promise of improvement in any of his deficiences. We made an awful lot of excuses for DA in 2007. Many of us were all over the defense, and there were plenty of people stoked about DA. He just could not improve. He didn't improve.

AdaM said:

Which brings us to #144:

#144.) Brady Quinn’s slow first half could be contributed to him eating a whole cake after his pre-game meal, and before his teammates could tell him there was a male-stripper in it.

@atenears said:

Of course your story involves male nudity, lol.

@atenears said:

Well who could blame him...if it was a beer from NASA, then it would be the most technologically advanced, bestest beer in the history of forever....assuming the bottle doesn't explode in your hand.

@inspecta said:

#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.