Browns DBs coach Ephraim Banda announced as DC in Senior Bowl

@texasag1969 said:

You mean kind of like drafting a WR and a DE and not studying a running back who resembled Jim Brown in every way like size, speed, major stiff arm and tackle breaker all day long? Now I don't know how anyone could cough-hen-cough-ry miss like that.?

? I still remember you talking about him before the draft.  Derrick Henry turned out to be quite the 2nd round pick for Tennessee; but the Jim Brown comparison is a little bit of a stretch. 

The RB the Browns drafted in round 2 Nick Chubb might be a better comparison to Jim Brown; since Chubb has actually averaged 5.3 yards per carry to Henry's 4.7 yards per carry in their NFL careers thus far.  

The 1 thing neither guy can compare to Jim Brown with is that Jim Brown never missed a game/start due to injury.

@flugel said:

Well said!  We already drafted a LT with those/similar issues.    The equivalent is like drafting a WR that can't catch or a LBer that can't tackle.  Why do that?  There's nothing worse than drafting a guy like Anthony Schwartz and hoping coaches can teach him how to catch and prozac the performance anxiety out of him.  When you ask your coaches to be miracle workers like that - you're not doing your due diligence in the film room with the draft prospects you're supposed to be evaluating.

When Andy Reid was walking off the field after his young LBer Nick Bolton made a huge play to help the Chiefs win a playoff game he was asked for his thoughts on it all.  His response via paraphrase here was "we drafted him because he was the best tackler the draft."  The depth of the statement wasn't just that he always makes ideal form tackles.  It was they watched enough film to see he could consistently make open field tackles in space; beat the point of attack to limit yards after contact to little to no gain; possess the instincts and preparation to always be on time to be in ideal position to make form tackles with his head up, etc.

My take:  People that are late are in a spastic hustle to get there often depriving themselves the ability to square up for the tackle as opposed to running by the ballcarrier with an arm tackle attempt at best. Anyway, stuff like this is why film study/evaluation is necessary.  It's how a team like KC nails a pick like Nick Bolton in round 2 while other teams just looking at stop watches and fitness tests draft a Bark Mingo in round 1 instead.   

You mean kind of like drafting a WR and a DE and not studying a running back who resembled Jim Brown in every way like size, speed, major stiff arm and tackle breaker all day long? Now I don't know how anyone could cough-hen-cough-ry miss like that.?

@flugel said:

When Andy Reid was walking off the field after his young LBer Nick Bolton made a huge play to help the Chiefs win a playoff game he was asked for his thoughts on it all.  His response via paraphrase here was "we drafted him because he was the best tackler the draft."  The depth of the statement wasn't just that he always makes ideal form tackles.  It was they watched enough film to see he could consistently make open field tackles in space; beat the point of attack to limit yards after contact to little to no gain; possess the instincts and preparation to always be on time to be in ideal position to make form tackles with his head up, etc.

This reminds me of how much I liked Bolton coming into that draft. 

The list is long, but I'd love for the Browns to draft a physical presence to put next to JOK. Time to move on from Walker, and while I like Takitaki as a depth/special teams guy, we need a legit starter. 

@tiamat63 said:

 Trying to, in my limited time, focus on a small handful of position group.   OL, DL, maybe some LB.   

I keep seeing Kingsley's name brought up, and for a man his size, I have to give my early concerns after watching two of his games.   

- His hand work and striking sucks

- Need serious development on a proper kick step

 Without those two things, at the NFL level, he's going to be target practice.   I have more of him to watch, but the initial finders weren't ideal.  6'6 330lb is a lot of mass to move.  If you don't have good hand work to offset the heavy feet, we have problems.  

Well said!  We already drafted a LT with those/similar issues.    The equivalent is like drafting a WR that can't catch or a LBer that can't tackle.  Why do that?  There's nothing worse than drafting a guy like Anthony Schwartz and hoping coaches can teach him how to catch and prozac the performance anxiety out of him.  When you ask your coaches to be miracle workers like that - you're not doing your due diligence in the film room with the draft prospects you're supposed to be evaluating.

When Andy Reid was walking off the field after his young LBer Nick Bolton made a huge play to help the Chiefs win a playoff game he was asked for his thoughts on it all.  His response via paraphrase here was "we drafted him because he was the best tackler the draft."  The depth of the statement wasn't just that he always makes ideal form tackles.  It was they watched enough film to see he could consistently make open field tackles in space; beat the point of attack to limit yards after contact to little to no gain; possess the instincts and preparation to always be on time to be in ideal position to make form tackles with his head up, etc.

My take:  People that are late are in a spastic hustle to get there often depriving themselves the ability to square up for the tackle as opposed to running by the ballcarrier with an arm tackle attempt at best. Anyway, stuff like this is why film study/evaluation is necessary.  It's how a team like KC nails a pick like Nick Bolton in round 2 while other teams just looking at stop watches and fitness tests draft a Bark Mingo in round 1 instead.   

@gumby73 said:

That's King!  Watched 2.5 games.

You'd hope King would have half the punch & hands of his cousin P. Sewell has in pass pro..  Kingsley's game looked better as a run blocking weapon,imo. 

That is also my concern, his blocking is mostly just being the bigger and stronger guy.  His feet can be quick enough, but his technique in both phases is poor. 

@tiamat63 said:

 I keep seeing Kingsley's name brought up, and for a man his size, I have to give my early concerns after watching two of his games.   

- His hand work and striking sucks

- Need serious development on a proper kick step

 Without those two things, at the NFL level, he's going to be target practice.  

That's King!  Watched 2.5 games.

You'd hope King would have half the punch & hands of his cousin P. Sewell has in pass pro..  Kingsley's game looked better as a run blocking weapon,imo. He seems to move fast for a big man.  into 2nd game of Arizona-- T Jordan Morgan . Easy to see why waltersfootball put Morgan just ahead of Kingsley. Morgan won't get to 50

Finding this T class has more experience at playing RT.

Looking at Pff--ND Alt// Penn St--Fashanu// Arizona--Morgan// Houston --Paul// Duke- Barton// Ore.St--Fautanu.. All played LT, 3 seasons in college 

@gumby73 said:

BYU LT Kingsley Suamataia    

 Trying to, in my limited time, focus on a small handful of position group.   OL, DL, maybe some LB.   

I keep seeing Kingsley's name brought up, and for a man his size, I have to give my early concerns after watching two of his games.   

- His hand work and striking sucks

- Need serious development on a proper kick step

 Without those two things, at the NFL level, he's going to be target practice.   I have more of him to watch, but the initial finders weren't ideal.  6'6 330lb is a lot of mass to move.  If you don't have good hand work to offset the heavy feet, we have problems.  

@orion said:

But isn't Callahan leaving?

 Reports say yes  and

this Junkie saves & pastes, cap minds/thoughts from Oct. 2023 long articles.. 

Full every position opinion here  https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/predicting-the-cleveland-browns-2024-roster-216938648/#2253737

@gumby73 said:

With Callahan as a position coach, successful team and quality offensive line players will want to come to Cleveland to increase their value.

But isn't Callahan leaving?

@gumby73 said:

  nfl network anal' list Brian Baldinger .. We = Browns fans

no finger jokes.. cause I don't know how this is possible w/great health care systems

5 o'clock..  rum & coke time  ?

That, or he's trying to reach Mr Spock.   I'll never forget Baldinger's Smashing Pumpkins segment after the Browns ran Peyton Hillis down New England's esophagus.  It was all about the hat on the hat blocking he captured on film to show what made the smash-mouth from Hillis possible.  I like seeing football from the lens of an OL.

@tiamat63 said:

 Entirely possible.   He's a FA that was on a 1 year deal and couldn't finish the season healthy.  He had a very solid year, but being on the lookout for rotational pieces who can meaningfully contribute in certain roles comes with extra focus on cost.    

To be fair, I'm assuming he recovered well. If he did, seems like an easy choice to resign

@mld-woody said:

We're replacing Mo?

 Entirely possible.   He's a FA that was on a 1 year deal and couldn't finish the season healthy.  He had a very solid year, but being on the lookout for rotational pieces who can meaningfully contribute in certain roles comes with extra focus on cost.    

@dutch-oven said:

He's a free agent, isn't he? 

Yeah but I mean I figured we resign him after a good year

@ap1 said:

They've got ti find a way to keep Wyatt Teller. 

Don't disagree.. Here's the thoughts from the writer

Bitonio is going to be a Cleveland Brown until he retires but when that will be no one knows. As an offensive lineman that needs to go every snap your career can quickly come to an end with one injury. So while the team won't put too much resources into preparing for the end they need to be aware it could happen at any time. Luckily Callahan has managed to produce above-average play out of numerous guards when injuries have hit so they should be able to stash someone on the practice squad or a phone call that can come in and be serviceable.

Teller seems destined for free agency this upcoming offseason. I don't expect anyone to trade for his nonguaranteed salary of $14m. They will need to make an early decision as he is due $2m on the 20th of March. Since he was linked in trade discussions around the free agency period last year they aren't sure he provides the value to match his contract. Plus they can't realistically go into next season with all five offensive linemen on significant deals, he is the easiest to move on from financially alongside Bitonio.

With Teller gone I would expect them to make a move in free agency, someone in the $3-5m range would likely be the plan on a one to two-year deal so that they aren't going to drop a significant level of talent. With Callahan as a position coach, successful team and quality offensive line players will want to come to Cleveland to increase their value.

They have Forbes and Deaton as bodies but I don't expect either of them to be an answer to the issue, most likely people are kept around during camp so that they have three solid lines as they try and develop younger players that they add. Dunn will be another player who will explore free agency and if no one wants him then he is likely to return as injury depth, either on the practice squad or bottom of the roster.

The smart move would be to add a guard on day three of the draft, it isn't a position that tends to be drafted too highly so you add someone to develop. They can either replace the free agent after year one or be the player you groom to fill the shoes of Joel Bitonio one day.

Teller contract details here https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/wyatt-teller-25267/

@gumby73 said:

Here's where we ended..

Here's a idea ..

They've got to find a way to keep Wyatt Teller. 

@gumby73 said:

  nfl network anal' list Brian Baldinger .. We = Browns fans

no finger jokes.. cause I don't know how this is possible w/great health care systems

5 o'clock..  rum & coke time  ?

aaaaahhh Baldy I all ways liked his breakdowns.

@syd said:

whose baldy ? who is we ?

  nfl network anal' list Brian Baldinger .. We = Browns fans

no finger jokes.. cause I don't know how this is possible w/great health care systems

5 o'clock..  rum & coke time  ?

@gumby73 said:

Baldy, We too like high motor DT's like FSU's Braden Fiske & squatty Dt's of McKinley Jackson..

BUTT,

We also saw Berry get Taven Bryan & Marvin Wilson for the same reasons.. Careful what you ask for  ?

whose baldy ? who is we ?

@orion said:

We've got plenty of 3rd day picks.  Should be able to hit just about every position group.

WR/DL/OT/LB Top Tier BPA, any order 

TE/RB/S bottom BPA 

but it just turned February

BUTT,

We also saw Berry get Taven Bryan & Marvin Wilson for the same reasons.. Careful what you ask for  ?

Here's a idea ..

@gumby73 said:

I'd move on from Hudson & draft another 

We've got plenty of 3rd day picks.  Should be able to hit just about every position group.

@gumby73 said:

Wills paid/trade/play 5th year option will cost 14.5M   Conklin's cap number is 12M.. berry's got work to do   https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns

Wills & D.Jones feels safe.. Conklin might re-do contract again? I'd move on from Hudson & draft another   

First thanks cause i had no idea. I guess it would depend on dead money but i would move on from wills and as mentioned above play Conklin at left untill the rook is ready to take over, then cut him also

@syd said:

We also need to protect are biggest investment DeShaun Watson. I would move Conklin to left tackle and Groom Guyton as his replacement. As for Wills ? I dunno ? is he rostered for past next year ? how much do we owe him ? 

Wills paid/trade/play 5th year option will cost 14.5M   Conklin's cap number is 12M.. berry's got work to do   https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns

Wills & D.Jones feels safe.. Conklin might re-do contract again? I'd move on from Hudson & draft another