@bob806 said:

Here's the thing I really don't understand. I had a disagreement on Marino recently with one of my long-time friends.

Miami had a few good/great seasons with Marino, but not really that many. It seemed they under achieved (my opinion). Marino's W/L record in Miami was 147-93

So was it Shula that held them back, or was Marino over rated?

Dolphins page

They were kind of a one-trick pony with Marino.

They could pass the lights out, but I don't remember them being a good running team, or having much of a defense. 

@orion said:

Don Shula.  When he had Bob Griese, he beat you into the ground with Larry Czonka, Jim Kick & Mercury Morris.  When he had Dan Marino, he passed you into the dust with the Super Dupers.  -  An hour ago I told my grandson of how Hue Jackson had first and goal on the Steeler one yard line in OT....and lost the game.   the inept bum

Here's the thing I really don't understand. I had a disagreement on Marino recently with one of my long-time friends.

Miami had a few good/great seasons with Marino, but not really that many. It seemed they under achieved (my opinion). Marino's W/L record in Miami was 147-93

So was it Shula that held them back, or was Marino over rated?

Dolphins page

@dutch-oven said:

Once again, I'll add this:

Paul Brown is the father of modern pro football. 

But if my life depended on the outcome of one football game, I would choose Lombardi to be the head coach over Brown without thinking. 

I don't know if you're right or wrong.  In fairness to Lombardi, I'm sticking with my comfort zone and none of that means I wasn't impressed with Lombardi's dynasty and accomplishments.

That said, the NFL couldn't wait to show Cleveland their 1st 4 consecutive Pro Football Championships on the women's tees didn't mean a thing.  The only question left was - can a Tiger change his stripes?  In this case the Tigers are Paul Brown and Otto Graham (the QB Detroit also drafted but chose Paul Brown).  Anyway, the alleged sissies showed up for their spankings; but there was nobody strong enough to issue them. Consequently, this much bigger challenge in the NFL had to witness Cleveland making it to 6 consecutive NFL Championship Title Games in their 1st 6 seasons playing on the Men's tees. This included winning their very 1st Championship in their 1st NFL season in 1950 and 2 more in 1954 and 1955.  Before all that, Paul Brown won 6 State High School Football Championships in Ohio and 1 in Maryland as well as a National Championship at Ohio State in 1942.

When it was Brown's time - he consistently showed he could beat the best of the best at any level, in any league, on any field, in any weather, at any time.  

@orion said:

Don Shula.  When he had Bob Griese, he beat you into the ground with Larry Czonka, Jim Kick & Mercury Morris.  When he had Dan Marino, he passed you into the dust with the Super Dupers.  -  An hour ago I told my grandson of how Hue Jackson had first and goal on the Steeler one yard line in OT....and lost the game.   the inept bum

? And just when defenses were gearing up to stack the box - the Cleveland Browns traded a future HOF WR with 4.2/4.3 speed to Miami named Paul Warfield. Okay, I realize that's nothing compared to making Carolina invincible with Baker Mayfield.  But, it certainly gave opposing defenses the pick your poison challenge.  I don't know if anyone remembers this but there was a song someone wrote and sang imitating Howard Cosell called "The Game Plan to Beat Miami" using the 12 Days of Christmas format.  Cleveland came closer than anyone to beating that team so you know poppa Flugel wasn't just playing little 45 speed record for laughs in 1972.

Try not to laugh too hard at this; but back in the day Syracuse put together a heck of a RB tradition with Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Jim Nance, Larry Csonka, Floyd Little, Joe Morris, Daryl Moose Johnston, etc.  Some might be thinking wasn't Brown a FB? That's a good question; but remember a big part of that position is blocking which isn't what he was born to do.  Those that actually watched him play know this better than I do - he was a very gifted RB with a lot of power too.  Popeye needed spinach to get energy and strength - Jim Brown just needed carries.  And why?   Because my dad said so!

@dutch-oven said:

if my life depended on the outcome of one football game, I would choose

Don Shula.  When he had Bob Griese, he beat you into the ground with Larry Czonka, Jim Kick & Mercury Morris.  When he had Dan Marino, he passed you into the dust with the Super Dupers.  -  An hour ago I told my grandson of how Hue Jackson had first and goal on the Steeler one yard line in OT....and lost the game.   the inept bum

@dutch-oven said:

This again? ?

LOL Well it is Super Bowl  week

@ap1 said:

In my opinion, it's impossible to compare and each were the best of their era.

Both were great during their respective times.. You couldn't go wrong with either... There's beauty in that....

@dutch-oven said:

Once again, I'll add this:

Paul Brown is the father of modern pro football. 

But if my life depended on the outcome of one football game, I would choose Lombardi to be the head coach over Brown without thinking. 

In my opinion, it's impossible to compare and each were the best of their era.

Paul Brown is the father of modern pro football. 

But if my life depended on the outcome of one football game, I would choose Lombardi to be the head coach over Brown without thinking. 

@syd said:

now let's take a look at the greatest coach in N.F.L history

The Paul Brown coaching tree stands mighty tall

Way to go Syd!!!!  Thanks for the research and sharing it with us!

2 of the most forgotten guys that started so many family traditions of following the Cleveland Browns are Paul Brown and Otto Graham.  Not only that in a broader spectrum, as you touched on in your sequence of posts, is how many Hall of Fame careers for coaches and players got launched from Paul Brown.

Every team in the AFC North has roots to Paul Brown.  Pitt has Noll. Baltimore has our 1st franchise. Cleveland started in 1946 with 10 consecutive appearances in Pro Football Championship Title Games and winning 7 of them before winning another one in 1964. Brown started the 2nd NFL franchise in Ohio over in Cincinnati. 

It would be nice if there was some kind of annual award to honor Brown - maybe for the AFC Conference Champions?  Maybe they can add his name to the Lamar Hunt Trophy or give the NFL Coach of the Year a Paul Brown Award/Trophy.  

@syd said:

1. The West Coast Offense:

   • Bill Walsh’s system, founded on the foundation laid by Paul Brown, emphasized passing over running.
   • It involved precise patterns, timed throws, and extensive situational preparation.
   • Walsh’s approach revolutionized offensive football, leading to the term “West Coast Offense.”
   • While the term has evolved to encompass various pass-oriented offenses, its origins trace back to the collaboration between Brown and Walsh³.

That is nothing that Lombardi did 

Paul Brown’s name should be on the SB trophy

how Paul  Brown changed the game

@syd said:

lombardi came up with what ?

im surprised Lindy Infante was in lombardo / forrest gregg tree

he was here in CLE 86-87 as offensive coordinator. darn good too

i thought lombardi wouldve had a greater coaching tree legacy - but rather it mightve been the coaching tree

from which lombardi came along with Tom Landry -NY Giants HC Jim Howell

@syd said:

lombardi came up with what ?

Grab, grab, grab!