@texasag1969 said:

Revisiting this thread EA Sports produces Madden Football and has this to say about that same Aggie I identified as an excellent pick to go with Myles, "On the defensive side, I would use Nic Scourton (90 overall player rating). The Purdue defensive end transfer led the Big Ten in sacks last season, and I think he will be a top 10 pick in the 2025 NFL Draft."

Nothing like that Friday Night Lights feeling down in Texas.  Hold on a second, I STAND CORRECTED.  We have a whole heap of hope from the Saturday Night Lights coming out of College Station.  If Keith Jackson was still around he'd say "Folks if that 1st 11 can't tackle you - the Aggies have a 12th man that can lay the lick'n that will stop the heart from tick'n.  Let's just say the visitors better bring their smelling salts..."  

@texasag1969 said:

Remember that Agggie edge rusher I said would be a high draft choice next year for consideration to go with Myles. Apparently someone else thinks he will be a top edge rusher along with OSUs Jack Sawyer. I'd be happy with either one of 'em on the other end from Myles.

Top EDGE Defenders 2024

(Photo: Bryan Lynn/Icon Sportswire, Getty)

1. JAMES PEARCE JR., TENNESSEE VOLUNTEERS

2. NIC SCOURTON, TEXAS A&M AGGIES *

3. JACK SAWYER, OHIO STATE BUCKEYES

4. KAIMON RUCKER, NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS

5. ASHTON GILLOTTE, LOUISVILLE CARDINALS

Pearce is poised to be the Volunteers' first top-five pick since Eric Berry in 2010 after racking up 10.0 sacks and 14.5 tackles for loss as a sophomore last season. He rated as the No. 173 prospect and No. 18 edge in the class of 2022. Scourton was the second-highest-rated defensive lineman to enroll at Purdue since 2000, trailing only George Karlaftis. He racked up 10.0 sacks and 15.0 tackles for loss as a sophomore last season and packed his bags for Texas A&M this offseason. Sawyer and fellow 2021 five-star JT Tuimoloau are the highest-rated defensive linemen to commit to Ohio State in the modern recruiting era. Sawyer was the only FBS edge to earn 85.0+ grades as a pass rusher and run defender last season and got the nod over Tuimoloau. 

Revisiting this thread EA Sports produces Madden Football and has this to say about that same Aggie I identified as an excellent pick to go with Myles, "On the defensive side, I would use Nic Scourton (90 overall player rating). The Purdue defensive end transfer led the Big Ten in sacks last season, and I think he will be a top 10 pick in the 2025 NFL Draft."

@ballpeen said:

I like Watson as well.  Miss St wasn't very good, but he did lead the SEC in tackles.  At least he seems to find the ball.

which i believe is why we drafted him and hall for passing situations 

@dutch-oven said:

A guy that is built for the game a generation ago? 

The SEC DPOTY has had a nice run of success in the NFL the last few seasons. 

But the track record before this last run wasn't so hot.  Watson, at the moment, looks like he falls more towards that former string of winners category. 

@flugel said:

I'm not sure this was the year to draft a LBe; so I guess I could say I liked where we got him in round 6.  Believe it or not, he was the AP SEC Defensive Player of the Year and a 3rd Team All American for whatever that's worth. In 2022, he finished 2nd in the SEC with 113 tackles. In 2023, he had 137 tackles with 13 of those for a loss and 10 sacks.  I'm curious if the majority of those were at the point of attack/at the line of scrimmage.  Lindy's said range will be a concern so that agrees with your assessment above. 

Remember when we watched Jaylon Ford get smoked on a simple backer replace check down?  Saw the similar weakness in Watson's game.

When you're getting roasted like that in college on simple stuff, it doesn't just magically get easier at the pro level. 

@tiamat63 said:

His film is VERY rough.  He's going to struggle in space and likely in the passing game.  Tackling isn't his issue when the play comes his way, but beyond that?  He's got athletic limitations I question his mind will overcome.

I'm not sure this was the year to draft a LBe; so I guess I could say I liked where we got him in round 6.  Believe it or not, he was the AP SEC Defensive Player of the Year and a 3rd Team All American for whatever that's worth. In 2022, he finished 2nd in the SEC with 113 tackles. In 2023, he had 137 tackles with 13 of those for a loss and 10 sacks.  I'm curious if the majority of those were at the point of attack/at the line of scrimmage.  Lindy's said range will be a concern so that agrees with your assessment above. 

@tiamat63 said:

His film is VERY rough.  He's going to struggle in space and likely in the passing game.  Tackling isn't his issue when the play comes his way, but beyond that?  He's got athletic limitations I question his mind will overcome.

A guy that is built for the game a generation ago? 

@dutch-oven said:

I don't know why, but I really kind of like that Watson kid. I think at worst he is going to help out with special teams. 

His film is VERY rough.  He's going to struggle in space and likely in the passing game.  Tackling isn't his issue when the play comes his way, but beyond that?  He's got athletic limitations I question his mind will overcome.

@gumby73 said:

Attendees at Browns 3 day rookie camp 2024

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/cleveland-browns--231670589/#2418743

Tryout players https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2024/5/10/24153592/cleveland-browns-roster-7-tryout-players-rookie-minicamp-tyrese-chambers-landon-honeycutt

Good to see Zinter on the field... someone should ask him if he could get hold of Connor Stalions to do some scouting for the Browns. 

I don't know why, but I really kind of like that Watson kid. I think at worst he is going to help out with special teams. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/cleveland-browns--231670589/#2418743

Tryout players https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2024/5/10/24153592/cleveland-browns-roster-7-tryout-players-rookie-minicamp-tyrese-chambers-landon-honeycutt

@dutch-oven said:

It's hard to believe how long Myles, Bitonio, Chubb and Njoku have been here.

We went so long drafting players that weren't worth contract extensions. 

I know.  Those guys have been a good nucleus for younger guys to learn from. It'll be interesting to see how our next few drafts go...

@flugel said:

It would be awesome; but we better giddy-up and get after it. This is going to be Myles' 8th season already.  Can you believe it? 

It's hard to believe how long Myles, Bitonio, Chubb and Njoku have been here.

We went so long drafting players that weren't worth contract extensions. 

@dutch-oven said:

I'd be so happy if we could finally get a stud DE opposite of Myles for the long-term. 

Well, as long as Myles wants to keep playing. 

It would be awesome; but we better giddy-up and get after it. This is going to be Myles' 8th season already.  Can you believe it? 

Well, as long as Myles wants to keep playing. 

Top EDGE Defenders 2024

(Photo: Bryan Lynn/Icon Sportswire, Getty)

1. JAMES PEARCE JR., TENNESSEE VOLUNTEERS

2. NIC SCOURTON, TEXAS A&M AGGIES *

3. JACK SAWYER, OHIO STATE BUCKEYES

4. KAIMON RUCKER, NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS

5. ASHTON GILLOTTE, LOUISVILLE CARDINALS

Pearce is poised to be the Volunteers' first top-five pick since Eric Berry in 2010 after racking up 10.0 sacks and 14.5 tackles for loss as a sophomore last season. He rated as the No. 173 prospect and No. 18 edge in the class of 2022. Scourton was the second-highest-rated defensive lineman to enroll at Purdue since 2000, trailing only George Karlaftis. He racked up 10.0 sacks and 15.0 tackles for loss as a sophomore last season and packed his bags for Texas A&M this offseason. Sawyer and fellow 2021 five-star JT Tuimoloau are the highest-rated defensive linemen to commit to Ohio State in the modern recruiting era. Sawyer was the only FBS edge to earn 85.0+ grades as a pass rusher and run defender last season and got the nod over Tuimoloau. 

@orion said:

Sure, we can come up with lots of exceptions.  Brian Sipe was drafted in round 13.  That would make him an undrafted free agent in today's draft.  And there's Brock Purdy and Don Nottingham.  But exceptions do not make up 'the rule'.  I would wager that the vast majority of players drafted in the 6th & 7th rounds do not go on to help their team very much.  I'd guess that most of them don't last in the NFL for more than a year or two.  I've said before that 7th round players are basically UFA's that you don't have to coax to come to your team for training camp.  

We're gonna agree to disagree about how unhelpful rounds 6 and 7 CAN be for the Browns. Here's some starters drafted and undrafted on our 80s playoff teams that weren't picked before round 5, if at all: 

WR Reggie Langhorne 7th round Elizabeth City State 1986, Safety Thane Gash 7th round East Tennessee State 1988, Right Tackle Cody Risien Texas A&M 7th round, LT Paul Farren 12th round Boston University 1983, C Mike Babb 5th round Texas 1982, RB Earnest Byner 10th round East Carolina 1984, LT Tony T-Bone Jones Undrafted West Carolina 1988, LT Doug Dieken 6th round Illinois 1971, QB Brian Sipe 13th round San Diego State 1972 (The ONLY League MVP on the Browns I've had the pleasure of watching)

Now, try to think of how many bad 1st round picks the Browns made during the same span.  QB Mike Phipps 1970, WR Steve Holden 1973, OG Pete Adams 1973, Willis Adams 1979, LB Robert Stonewall Jackson 1977, LB Clifford Charlton 1988, LB Mike Junkin 1987. RB Charles White 1980

There's been some disappointing 1st round picks since the 90s: FB Touchdown-Free Tommy Vardell, LB Craig Powell,  DE Courtney Brown, QB Tim Couch (Donovan McNabb went to the team with the worst record in 1998 and didn't need all the excuses), RB Trent Richardson, DE Bark Mingo, QB Johnny Manziel, QB Brandon Weedon, CB Justin Gilbert, WR Corey Coleman, RB William Green. 

Bottom line:  There's a lot of good football players in this country.  I'm guessing the Browns have enough money to hire a guy or 2 to research guys projecting from rounds 5 thru undrafted.  Finding these kinds of guys in the past has benefitted this franchise; especially during my glory years as a fan in the 80s (meaning many were drafted in the 70s and 80s).

@flugel said:

What's with all the negativity all of a sudden? 

(I saw your Just Kidding comment)  -  Being pessimistic means you won't be disappointed. 

But I think that I'm being a realist.  

@orion said:

Sure, we can come up with lots of exceptions.  Brian Sipe was drafted in round 13.  That would make him an undrafted free agent in today's draft.  And there's Brock Purdy and Don Nottingham.  But exceptions do not make up 'the rule'.  I would wager that the vast majority of players drafted in the 6th & 7th rounds do not go on to help their team very much.  I'd guess that most of them don't last in the NFL for more than a year or two.  I've said before that 7th round players are basically UFA's that you don't have to coax to come to your team for training camp.  

Donavan Peoples-Jones was a 6th round pick.  And he turned out to be a cornerbacks dream receiver.  He was a 2 receptions per game guy...in today's pass-happy NFL.  (forgive me DPJ as I did like your effort and the contested catches that you did make)

And YES, ideally you would like to find gems in the last 2 rounds.  But realistically that doesn't happen all that often.  And to have 6 picks in those rounds.....I think I'd try and trade some of those picks for a couple of veterans where you know what you're getting and they can man a position that you really needed help at.  And even if those veterans are stop-gap players, it buys you time until the next draft.  

All that said, we don't turn down compensatory picks...even if they're just 7th round picks.  And if ya don't trade any picks, you draft the best guys you can and hope you found a gem.

What's with all the negativity all of a sudden?  Sure, you retired and now you have all this time on your hands and..... ? ?  Just kidding!!!! 

I was just saying SOME teams are really good at the back end of the draft and Seattle in particular has a 3-4 year span where they weren't thinking ahead to Undrafted FAs - they were focused for finish the job on day 3 and made it happen.  

I

@texasag1969 said:

And dominant 2013 Superbowl Champ DE Michael Bennett was originally a 2009 UDFA for Seattle from Texas A&M. Eventually 3 time Pro Bowler with Seattle.

Sure, we can come up with lots of exceptions.  Brian Sipe was drafted in round 13.  That would make him an undrafted free agent in today's draft.  And there's Brock Purdy and Don Nottingham.  But exceptions do not make up 'the rule'.  I would wager that the vast majority of players drafted in the 6th & 7th rounds do not go on to help their team very much.  I'd guess that most of them don't last in the NFL for more than a year or two.  I've said before that 7th round players are basically UFA's that you don't have to coax to come to your team for training camp.  

Donavan Peoples-Jones was a 6th round pick.  And he turned out to be a cornerbacks dream receiver.  He was a 2 receptions per game guy...in today's pass-happy NFL.  (forgive me DPJ as I did like your effort and the contested catches that you did make)

And YES, ideally you would like to find gems in the last 2 rounds.  But realistically that doesn't happen all that often.  And to have 6 picks in those rounds.....I think I'd try and trade some of those picks for a couple of veterans where you know what you're getting and they can man a position that you really needed help at.  And even if those veterans are stop-gap players, it buys you time until the next draft.  

All that said, we don't turn down compensatory picks...even if they're just 7th round picks.  And if ya don't trade any picks, you draft the best guys you can and hope you found a gem.

@flugel said:

Understandable.  However, some teams are really good in the last 2-3 rounds. Back when Seattle won a Super Bowl, they were drafting starters and situational subs for their secondary in rounds 5-7.  Hard hitting Safety Kam Chancellor was a 5th round pick; Richard Sherman was a 5th round pick; Byron Maxwell was drafted in the 6th round; Malcolm Smith was drafted in the 7th round; Brandon Browner wasn't even drafted.  That was a lot of the essential ingredients of their Legion of Boom.  On the other hand, they did draft Earl Thomas in round 1.  At 1 point, Maxwell, Chancellor and Sherman were all only 25 years old playing on their rookie contracts (at 5th-7th round values) while Earl Thomas was the youngest guy at 24 years old.  That made for a very healthy salary cap for a while.  They even found a very productive LBer K.J. Wright in round 4.

On offense, Seattle landed undrafted Free Agent WR Doug Baldwin out of Stanford. He was a very productive starter that had an 8 year career inclusive of 2 Pro Bowls for Seattle. They also added Russell Wilson in round 3, which doesn't sound late - but up against the supply and demand it was.  These were the QBs drafted ahead of Wilson:  Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden (round 1) and Brock Osweiler (round 2). Now, these were the QBs drafted after Russell Wilson - Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins.  

I think all those finds by Seattle above (from the scouting dept and FO) led to a very healthy salary and a strong nucleus of players that made life for HC Pete Carroll a lot of fun. That said, drafting like that also required great coaching to develop a lot of those guys on time and ahead of schedule.  It probably wasn't easy; but I'm guessing rising to the challenge made it a lot of fun.  

And dominant 2013 Superbowl Champ DE Michael Bennett was originally a 2009 UDFA for Seattle from Texas A&M. Eventually 3 time Pro Bowler with Seattle.

@orion said:

According to draft value charts, 6th round picks don't carry much value.  Certainly more than the lousy ONE draft value point that is the majority of the 7th round...but not substantial draft value points.  Even in your scenario, you'd have to be using a pretty high 4th round pick to be getting yourself above the bottom of the 3rd round.  Of course, the reality is, draft day trades are not governed by some sites' draft value chart.  So, if you can find a sucker, er, I mean a trade partner, well, you're golden.  And that does happen at every draft.  Just not very often.

But I do see veteran players being traded for 6th round draft picks.  That's why I say we'll probably do something like that with one or more of those low value draft picks.

Understandable.  However, some teams are really good in the last 2-3 rounds. Back when Seattle won a Super Bowl, they were drafting starters and situational subs for their secondary in rounds 5-7.  Hard hitting Safety Kam Chancellor was a 5th round pick; Richard Sherman was a 5th round pick; Byron Maxwell was drafted in the 6th round; Malcolm Smith was drafted in the 7th round; Brandon Browner wasn't even drafted.  That was a lot of the essential ingredients of their Legion of Boom.  On the other hand, they did draft Earl Thomas in round 1.  At 1 point, Maxwell, Chancellor and Sherman were all only 25 years old playing on their rookie contracts (at 5th-7th round values) while Earl Thomas was the youngest guy at 24 years old.  That made for a very healthy salary cap for a while.  They even found a very productive LBer K.J. Wright in round 4.

On offense, Seattle landed undrafted Free Agent WR Doug Baldwin out of Stanford. He was a very productive starter that had an 8 year career inclusive of 2 Pro Bowls for Seattle. They also added Russell Wilson in round 3, which doesn't sound late - but up against the supply and demand it was.  These were the QBs drafted ahead of Wilson:  Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden (round 1) and Brock Osweiler (round 2). Now, these were the QBs drafted after Russell Wilson - Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins.  

I think all those finds by Seattle above (from the scouting dept and FO) led to a very healthy salary and a strong nucleus of players that made life for HC Pete Carroll a lot of fun. That said, drafting like that also required great coaching to develop a lot of those guys on time and ahead of schedule.  It probably wasn't easy; but I'm guessing rising to the challenge made it a lot of fun.  

@dutch-oven said:

Which makes me hesitant to sing the praises of one Dawand Jones, yet. Don't want to jinx him. 

Another good point.  Knock it off!

There's no doubt he's talented. The thing that makes me somewhat reluctant was the fact that he showed up to training camp very out of shape and overweight.  Some will say "so what - did you see him?"  Yeah, I was impressed; but did he get anywhere close to the finish line?  Now that there's a knee injury or possibly 2 in his football background - he might want to show up in shape.  When Conklin went down in week 1, it would have been nice to have had Jones give us more than just 9 starts over the next 16 games. The quality of remaining depth after your 1st 2 right tackles go down decreases.  

@dutch-oven said:

The funny thing is, I don't remember anyone having a problem with the selection of Wills during and after the end of his rookie season. Problem was, it seems like he peaked then.

Which makes me hesitant to sing the praises of one Dawand Jones, yet. Don't want to jinx him. 

Very good points!  I not only thought he had a very promising rookie year in 2020; but I remember posting it as it happened and leading up to his 2nd year.  We even had a healthy Jack Conklin that year playing 15 of the 16 regular season games.  Unfortunately, Wills had a sophomore slump compounded by a mid-season ankle sprain he milked the rest of the 2021 season.  I think a lot of us cut him slack for it thinking we'd get the same guy back the next year that we saw as a rookie.  Like you said, we never saw the same player again. 

This is what Google informed me: An average play in the NFL lasts just four seconds. In 2022 and 2023, I frequently complained about seeing Wills make his initial hit then quit when we ran the ball.  It only takes about 1 of those 4 seconds to collide and quit.  That happened too much for comfort with him  in the running game  In the passing game, he's very inconsistent starting with his pre-snap stance.  When he occasionally gets into a good stance it sets him up for good leverage from pad height and good base below (making sure his feet aren't too close together causing over extension) - he does a nice job.  Here's the thing, how is getting into a helpful stance a problem for anyone that puts in the work all year long?  It isn't.  You get out of it what you put into it (ie; Joe Thomas).  If that's not enough, the Browns had 2 awesome OL Coaches: Bill Callahan and Scott Peters.  Film can also give a player a lot of the inconvenient truth he needs to work at.