@dutch-oven said:

We have some good pizza for sure... but I'm going to New Jersey the first weekend of November, maybe I can talk my cousin into making the trip to Brooklyn to get some of the NYC pizza! Mmmmmmmmmm.... 

Yeah, why not?  

@flugel said:

Meatball on Spaghetti, getting one of those REAL pizzas you and others have written about...

We have some good pizza for sure... but I'm going to New Jersey the first weekend of November, maybe I can talk my cousin into making the trip to Brooklyn to get some of the NYC pizza! Mmmmmmmmmm.... 

@dutch-oven said:

Yep... Massillon game Friday night, Saturday at the Hall of Fame, Sunday up in Cleveland. Not a bad way to spend a weekend! 

I and the rest of the NE Ohio guys are spoiled. Its a fantastic region for football. I've seriously thought of going to a different HS game in NE Ohio every week for a season - hitting up games from Youngstown to Steubenville to Massillon to Cleveland and making a blog about it. 

Meatball on Spaghetti, getting one of those REAL pizzas you and others have written about...

@flugel said:

Wow!  That sounds like a great idea for the bucket list in the near future...

Yep... Massillon game Friday night, Saturday at the Hall of Fame, Sunday up in Cleveland. Not a bad way to spend a weekend! 

I and the rest of the NE Ohio guys are spoiled. Its a fantastic region for football. I've seriously thought of going to a different HS game in NE Ohio every week for a season - hitting up games from Youngstown to Steubenville to Massillon to Cleveland and making a blog about it. 

@dutch-oven said:

In a thread about Paul Browns, I'd be amiss if I didn't say to the out-of-town guys on here that if you ever find yourself in NE Ohio (maybe for a Browns home game road trip) you need to not only hit up the Hall of Fame in Canton (duh) but you need to go next door to Massillon on a Friday night and catch a game at Paul Brown Stadium.

You won't believe you are at a high school game. What a great old stadium, hell, they have a helluva indoor practice facility. As far as I know, the Cincinnati Bengals still don't have one, but this high school does. ?

Wow!  That sounds like a great idea for the bucket list in the near future...

You won't believe you are at a high school game. What a great old stadium, hell, they have a helluva indoor practice facility. As far as I know, the Cincinnati Bengals still don't have one, but this high school does. ? (Edit: Apparently the cheapest team in the NFL finally burst into the 20th century and got themselves a temporary indoor practice facility this season, and are building a permanent one soon. Not sure if it will have indoor plumbing, but baby steps...) 

@packernation said:

Forrest was a great player for the Pack. He was head coach in Green Bay for 4 years about 10 years after you guys had him. The only good thing about Forrest as a coach was his extreme hate for Ditka and the Bears. Forrest and Ditka had an actual fight in the tunnel going in for halftime of a preseason game.?

Dave Mays never started any games for the Browns? I think he played in Buffalo after the Browns.

? To the part in bold above.  Love him or hate him, Ditka was hilarious!  As for Mays, I don't remember too much about him before or after that game in Cleveland. 

@dutch-oven said:

It was always funny when Forrest Gregg got brought up to Doug Dieken on his and Jimmy Donovan's Browns recap show. (Which sadly isn't on now)

He hated Gregg something fierce. Safe to say he wasn't a big fan of his coaching style. ?

I heard that was pretty consistent among the players at the time. He wasn't here long from 75-77.  

He hated Gregg something fierce. Safe to say he wasn't a big fan of his coaching style. ?

@flugel said:

Believe it or not, I went to the game where Joe Turkey Jones slammed Terry Bradshaw and the Browns won.  Having said that, back-up QB David Mays filled in for Sipe that day and got the win.  He was a black QB (who was also a Dentist before or after his short stint with the Browns). Their Head Coach that year was a former GB Packer - Forrest Gregg.  The Browns finished with a 9-5 record and did NOT make the playoffs that year.  That was kind of like the 2007 Browns that had a 10-6 record and didn't make the Playoffs.

Forrest was a great player for the Pack. He was head coach in Green Bay for 4 years about 10 years after you guys had him. The only good thing about Forrest as a coach was his extreme hate for Ditka and the Bears. Forrest and Ditka had an actual fight in the tunnel going in for halftime of a preseason game.?

Dave Mays never started any games for the Browns? I think he played in Buffalo after the Browns.

@packernation said:

"Paul Brown played a role in breaking the color barrier." True, and he for sure should be lauded for that. But there were black players in the NFL since the 20s. There was some bans on black players after the 20s until 1946.

"Teams in the North rejected black players." More so in the south.

I realize the Browns had their first black player in 1946. But they did not have a black QB until 1977.

By comparison, the Packers had the first black QB ever in the NFL in 1955. 

Believe it or not, I went to the game where Joe Turkey Jones slammed Terry Bradshaw and the Browns won.  Having said that, back-up QB David Mays filled in for Sipe that day and got the win.  He was a black QB (who was also a Dentist before or after his short stint with the Browns). Their Head Coach that year was a former GB Packer - Forrest Gregg.  The Browns finished with a 9-5 record and did NOT make the playoffs that year.  That was kind of like the 2007 Browns that had a 10-6 record and didn't make the Playoffs.

@packernation said:

I would say Paul Brown and Tom Landry are the two most memorable NFL head coaches to be fired.

How true.

A  quote from  the late,  great  Coach  "Bum" Phillips  former  Houston Oilers coach :

" There's only  TWO  kinds of coaches. ....  those that have  been  fired  -and-  those that  are going to be. "

"Teams in the North rejected black players." More so in the south.

I realize the Browns had their first black player in 1946. But they did not have a black QB until 1977.

By comparison, the Packers had the first black QB ever in the NFL in 1955. 

@fairhooker11 said:

there is serendipity between Paul Brown and a young Naval recruit and player Bud Grant for then coach Paul Browns Great Lakes Naval Training Station Illinois team (1945) 

then later on as the Mn Vikings HC, Bud Grant was usually quoted saying "when you score a TD ACT as if youve been there "  

not knocking having fun and exuberance for the moment, he Im sure wanted to tamp down the individual glory over the team play 

(have times changed)

 I cant help but wonder that he got that while playing for coach PB.  

Bud Grant passed away March 11 2023  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Grant

Yeah, it looked like he took a lot of important parts of winning he learned under Paul Brown with him into his coaching experience. Bud Grant was a great HC!

@flugel said:

I'm going to share some quotes I like from a legendary football coach that won State Championships in Ohio and Maryland before winning a National Championship at Ohio State. After that, he led the Cleveland Browns to 10 consecutive Pro Football Championship Games and remarkably won 7 of those.  If that's not enough, it was their 1st 10 years as a franchise from 1946-1955.  Here's a cut and paste of my favorite quotes I found from Paul Brown that are applicable to a lot more than just football via Google:

there is serendipity between Paul Brown and a young Naval recruit and player Bud Grant for then coach Paul Browns Great Lakes Naval Training Station Illinois team (1945) 

then later on as the Mn Vikings HC, Bud Grant was usually quoted saying "when you score a TD ACT as if youve been there "  

not knocking having fun and exuberance for the moment, he Im sure wanted to tamp down the individual glory over the team play 

(have times changed)

 I cant help but wonder that he got that while playing for coach PB.  

Bud Grant passed away March 11 2023  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Grant

@flugel said:

Thanks for sharing that MJP!  The only very slight nit-pick is it doesn't show how many High School Football State Championships he won.  I say that because doing this in 2 different states is very impressive.  In 1930, it was his 1st year as the Head Football Coach at Severn High School in Maryland where they went undefeated and won the State HS Football Championship. The next year they went 5-2-1 before he jumped at the chance to coach Massillon Washington High School in Ohio in 1932 in the same town he was raised in. There his team won 5 State HS Football Championships between 1935 and 1940 under his tutelage as well as 4 HS Football National Championships (listed above). Very important to that area - his teams beat the Canton McKinley Bulldogs the last 6 seasons they squared off with Brown on the sidelines.  

I have    always    paid some attention to a very    important part   of  NE OHIO  -and-  OHIO  FOOTBALL  in general  whether it is  Cleveland   -or-  Akron  -or-   Massillion / Canton    -or-   the other fine  other  towns   -and-  cities  like  Toleto,   COLUMBUS  -or-   CINCINNATI    -around-   this fine.   ★  HIGH  SCHOOL  FOOTBALL  RICH  STATE  OF   ● OH-IO  ●   .   

Whether  it Is   NORTH  -  SOUTH  -  EAST  -  or  WEST   of this glorious      - STATE  of  OHIO  -    we love our   HIGH SCHOOL,  COLLEGE   -and   professionaal  football  -at-  ALL  LEVELS !     No doubt about that.

︎. As a product of the  1960s  NILES McKinley  Football system  specifically in the years of 1965 to 1967 in  HIGH SCHOOL  ( See the HIGH SCHOOL Forums here on TBB. )

AND  the  NILES  1961  &  1963  OHIO CHAMPIONSHIPS  also  on  the  TBB here.       ︎-->   To be         Thanks,  from  mjp    ...  ︎ ...     continued here.     ︎-->

@mjp28 said:

Paul Brown  ( from his career  Highlights ).   Greatest coach of all time ?    You decide.

Thanks for sharing that MJP!  The only very slight nit-pick is it doesn't show how many High School Football State Championships he won.  I say that because doing this in 2 different states is very impressive.  In 1930, it was his 1st year as the Head Football Coach at Severn High School in Maryland where they went undefeated and won the State HS Football Championship. The next year they went 5-2-1 before he jumped at the chance to coach Massillon Washington High School in Ohio in 1932 in the same town he was raised in. There his team won 5 State HS Football Championships between 1935 and 1940 under his tutelage as well as 4 HS Football National Championships (listed above). Very important to that area - his teams beat the Canton McKinley Bulldogs the last 6 seasons they squared off with Brown on the sidelines.  

□---●---♤-->    ?   <--♤---●---□

 <-- Brown convinced Massillon Washington officials to build a new, bigger football stadium. Completed in 1939, the -->

-->  facility is named Paul Brown Tiger Stadium.   We thank those responsible for your work on this. -->

-->  In his first season at Massillon, Brown's team posted a   5-4-1  record, better than the previous year but far from Brown's exacting standards  -->  AND  -->  The Tigers improved again in 1933, ending with an 8-2  record but losing to their chief rivals, the Canton McKinley High School Bulldogs. -->  IN  1934, Massillon won ALL OF IT'S  games until a 21–6 defeat to Canton in the final game of the season.     As the pressure on Brown grew to turn the tables on Canton, Massillon finally accomplished the feat the following year in an undefeated season, the first of  many   with Brown at the helm.  

-->  By then  ....  Brown had put his system into place: a strict, systematic approach to coaching combined with a well-organized recruitment network that drew promising young players from Massillon's junior high school football program.   

( Also from above,  why he won BIG ! )   He paid no attention to race, and brought several African-American players onto the team at a time when many northern schools excluded them.

Paul Brown  was one of the greatest coaches at all levels of football.  HIGH SCHOOL, COLLEGE AND PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL. ?   

Brown began his coaching career at Severn School in 1931 before becoming the head football coach at Massillon Washington High School in Massillon, Ohio, where he grew up. His high school teams lost only 10 games in 11 seasons. He was then hired at Ohio State University and coached the school to its first national football championship in 1942. After World War II, he became head coach of the Browns, who won all four AAFC championships before joining the NFL in 1950. Brown coached the Browns to three NFL championships — in 1950, 1954 and 1955 — but was fired in January 1963 amid a power struggle with team owner Art Modell. In 1968, Brown co-founded and was the first coach of the Bengals. He retired from coaching in 1975 but remained the Bengals' team president until his death in 1991. The Bengals named their home stadium Paul Brown Stadium in his honor. He was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1967.

Brown is credited with a number of American football innovations. He was the first coach to use game film to scout opponents, hire a full-time staff of assistants, and test players on their knowledge of a playbook.     He invented the modern face mask, the practice squad and the draw play. He also played a role in breaking professional football's color barrier, bringing the first African-Americans to play pro football in the modern era onto  Despite these accomplishments, Brown was not universally liked.   He was strict and controlling, which often brought him into conflict with players who wanted a greater say in play-calling. These disputes, combined with Brown's failure to consult Modell on major personnel decisions, led to his firing as the Browns' coach in 1963.

Paul Brown on his player card with the  CLEVELAND BROWNS  ( in 1952 ).

@flugel said:

I'm going to share some quotes I like from a legendary football coach that won State Championships in Ohio and Maryland before winning a National Championship at Ohio State. After that, he led the Cleveland Browns to 10 consecutive Pro Football Championship Games and remarkably won 7 of those.  If that's not enough, it was their 1st 10 years as a franchise from 1946-1955.  Here's a cut and paste of my favorite quotes I found from Paul Brown that are applicable to a lot more than just football via Google:

Which is why it should be The Paul Brown Trophy. Not the lombardi but I do like his one quote "win one for the Gipper"