Why that is, I don't know, but it isn't a rare occurrence.

@orion said:

I dunno.  It's not like they have to learn a playbook.  They don't have to, lets say, work with the receivers to get the timing down.  The goal posts are in the same place wherever you go.  They've gotta kick it betwix the uprights.  Like they've been trying to do for what, practically their whole lives?  I don't mean to say that it's an easy thing to do.  But the mechanics of kicking a FG is no different in the NFL than in college.  Presumedly, they've kicked game deciding FG's in front of large crowds before.  

Nice Job!  Kicker!   

Well said!  This an interesting conversation you guys have going here because you both bring up great points. Kickers are sort of like a closer in baseball.  They have 1 job to do.  If this guy comes in with the bases loaded and 2 outs - he either gets the batter out; or he's the last and biggest memory viewers have of why his team lost.   

@ballpeen said:

I think they went back because he has the leg talent.  Even with some of our past kickers you can find guys who needed some time who went on to be good kickers in the league.  It probably shows that way across the league.  Kickers aren't any different than other position player.  Sometimes they don't just step in and be perfect.

Yeah, I can think of 1 really good example that I'll share at the bottom. There's variables that come into play that we as fans don't always consider. For example, sometimes guys come to Cleveland's Great Lake Climate (windy, cold, wet, slippery ground) from somewhere warm and dry like the Lou Groza Award Winner Zane Gonzalez at Arizona State.  Could the difference in climates be any more extreme? Here's a cut and paste of how he did in the good climate: ASU's Zane Gonzalez sets FBS record for career field goals made. Arizona State kicker Zane Gonzalez now holds the NCAA record for field goals in a career. He made his 89th field goal Saturday in the Sun Devils' 23-20 win over UCLA.

On the other hand, Phil Dawson played his college ball in the warm weather of Texas but performed very well in Cleveland.  That said, Phil Dawson's leg looked like it got a lot stronger in Cleveland with access to the NFL Strength and Conditioning program. All that to say, some kickers can kick in all weather while others cannot. Here's some stats that show it took more than 1 year to get where Phil was going with the Browns.  They also show even a great kicker can vary with accuracy some from year to year. 

@ballpeen said:

Kickers aren't any different than other position player.  Sometimes they don't just step in and be perfect.

I dunno.  It's not like they have to learn a playbook.  They don't have to, lets say, work with the receivers to get the timing down.  The goal posts are in the same place wherever you go.  They've gotta kick it betwix the uprights.  Like they've been trying to do for what, practically their whole lives?  I don't mean to say that it's an easy thing to do.  But the mechanics of kicking a FG is no different in the NFL than in college.  Presumedly, they've kicked game deciding FG's in front of large crowds before.  

Nice Job!  Kicker!   

@flugel said:

Come to think of it - it might have been the plan in 2023 until the Tennessee Titans decided it was their turn to see what he has.

I agree that it is a good idea to have a kicker on the practice squad.  I cut off your last point above about keeping 2 kickers on the active roster. I know you have recalled before that we used to keep 2 kickers on the active roster when we had Matt Bahr and Steve Cox. That worked out well for us.  In fact, Cox kicked a 60 yard field goal in a game during that span.  It looks like they want the practice squad route, which I'm fine with.  I just wondered why they'd go back to a guy that was never able to correct what he began to do wrong too frequently for comfort.  Maybe all he needed was a position coach to catch the mechanical flaw and assist him with correcting it.  Or, possibly bring in Phil Dawson as a consultant?  

I think they went back because he has the leg talent.  Even with some of our past kickers you can find guys who needed some time who went on to be good kickers in the league.  It probably shows that way across the league.  Kickers aren't any different than other position player.  Sometimes they don't just step in and be perfect.

@flugel said:

he won the opener against Carolina with a 58 yard FG as a rookie. What wasn't there to like

Yup.  He broke our opening day losing streak...and beat Mayfield at the same time.  But what?  Did he have his eyes closed on that one?  Because after that he went on to be 3rd worst in the league for FG%.  Then, he came back to TC the following year and was such a mess that they had to replace him.  I certainly don't blame Berry.  Who knew that York's brain would devolve into mush while standing in the backfield awaiting the snap of an NFL style pressure FG attempt?  Anyway, Berry made a good guess bringing in Hopkins.

@ballpeen said:

That probably is the plan.

Even if it isn't York, the team should always have a kicker on the PC. 

Come to think of it - it might have been the plan in 2023 until the Tennessee Titans decided it was their turn to see what he has.

I agree that it is a good idea to have a kicker on the practice squad.  I cut off your last point above about keeping 2 kickers on the active roster. I know you have recalled before that we used to keep 2 kickers on the active roster when we had Matt Bahr and Steve Cox. That worked out well for us.  In fact, Cox kicked a 60 yard field goal in a game during that span.  It looks like they want the practice squad route, which I'm fine with.  I just wondered why they'd go back to a guy that was never able to correct what he began to do wrong too frequently for comfort.  Maybe all he needed was a position coach to catch the mechanical flaw and assist him with correcting it.  Or, possibly bring in Phil Dawson as a consultant?  

@orion said:

Use him as a camp leg.  Cut him at CutDowns.  Then try and PS him...or someone else.  With the PS the way it is we should always have a kicker on it...ready to go in and kick the next week. 

That probably is the plan.

Even if it isn't York, the team should always have a kicker on the PC.  Hopkins is a solid kicker, but he also has some injury history over the last several years.  His deal also looks like a 2 year deal to me.  The plan for him is to kick this year and possibly next.  Basically, all of this years 5 or so million will be paid with 3.something million next year guaranteed if we decide to move on after this year.

Also, while not likely, I can see the team keeping 2 kickers on the team.  Again, not likely but not impossible.

@dutch-oven said:

To be fair, he was a very popular mock draft pick for the Browns that season. 

I know I was kind of happy to get him, I thought we got our version of the SEC kicker the Bengals drafted the year before or so (McPherson?)

Believe it or not, I rooted for the guy and wanted him to succeed.  I think we all liked the pick in round 4 at the time. Then he won the opener against Carolina with a 58 yard FG as a rookie. What wasn't there to like about that 1st impression - right? 

After the 2022 season played out - a lot of us lost confidence in him.  When the 2023 preseason was under way, he looked like he lost even more of the art to the extent fans in here posted their concerns that the Browns needed to bring another kicker in to compete for the job. Not only did that happen, but the Browns waived him in August of 2023.  It's a tough gig with a lot of pressure; because Kickers are often remembered for winning or losing games.  We liked Phil Dawson like the New England Patriots and their fans liked Adam Vinatieri. They were accurate and reliable especially when it was time to win games at the end. Neither guy was drafted.

Am I being too critical of York saying he was a bad pick?  We'll find out.  I'm just going by the bottom line that a 4th round pick didn't survive his 2nd training camp. All that said, his rookie stats below aren't that bad.

Player Sort First:       Last:	Team	G	FGM	FGA	FG%	EPM	EPA	FPts	FPts/G
1. Jason Myers	SEA	17	34	37	91.9%	41	42	143.0	8.4
2. Justin Tucker	BAL	17	37	43	86.0%	31	32	142.0	8.4
3. Daniel Carlson	LV	17	34	37	91.9%	35	36	137.0	8.1
4. Brett Maher	DAL	17	29	32	90.6%	50	53	137.0	8.1
5. Robbie Gould	SF	17	27	32	84.4%	50	51	131.0	7.7
6. Tyler Bass	BUF	16	27	31	87.1%	48	50	129.0	8.1
7. Younghoe Koo	ATL	17	32	37	86.5%	33	35	129.0	7.6
8. Eddy Pineiro	CAR	17	33	35	94.3%	30	32	129.0	7.6
9. Nick Folk	NE	17	32	37	86.5%	32	35	128.0	7.5
10. Riley Patterson	JAC	17	30	35	85.7%	36	37	126.0	7.4
11. Graham Gano	NYG	17	29	32	90.6%	32	34	119.0	7.0
12. Jason Sanders	MIA	17	26	32	81.3%	41	44	119.0	7.0
13. Greg Joseph	MIN	17	26	33	78.8%	40	46	118.0	6.9
14. Greg Zuerlein	NYJ	17	30	37	81.1%	28	29	118.0	6.9
15. Ryan Succop	TB	17	31	38	81.6%	24	25	117.0	6.9
16. Matt Gay	LAR	17	28	30	93.3%	31	32	115.0	6.8
17. Mason Crosby	GB	17	25	29	86.2%	37	39	112.0	6.6
18. Evan McPherson	CIN	16	24	29	82.8%	40	44	112.0	7.0
19. Jake Elliott	PHI	16	20	23	87.0%	51	53	111.0	6.9
20. Ka'imi Fairbairn	HOU	17	29	31	93.5%	24	24	111.0	6.5
21. Chase McLaughlin	IND	16	30	36	83.3%	21	21	111.0	6.9
22. Brandon McManus	DEN	17	28	36	77.8%	25	27	109.0	6.4
23. Cade York	CLE	17	24	32	75.0%	35	37	107.0	6.3
24. Mike Badgley	CHI	14	24	28	85.7%	33	33	105.0	7.5
25. Wil Lutz	NO	17	23	31	74.2%	33	33	102.0	6.0
26. Joey Slye	WAS	17	25	30	83.3%	24	28	99.0	5.8
27. Harrison Butker	KC	13	18	24	75.0%	38	41	92.0	7.1
28. Cairo Santos	CHI	16	21	23	91.3%	27	32	90.0	5.6
29. Cameron Dicker	PHI	11	21	22	95.5%	24	24	87.0	7.9
30. Matt Prater	ARI	13	22	25	88.0%	17	18	83.0	6.4
31. Randy Bullock	TEN	15	17	20	85.0%	28	28	79.0	5.3
32. Chris Boswell	PIT	12	20	28	71.4%	18	18	78.0	6.5
33. Matthew Wright	KC	6	15	18	83.3%	15	15	60.0	10.0
34. Dustin Hopkins	LAC	5	9	10	90.0%	12	12	39.0	7.8

@dutch-oven said:

I know I was kind of happy to get him,

As was I.  The position was unstable after Dawson left.  I thought that we'd finally put it to bed.

@flugel said:

I agree; but why Cade?  This loyalty to bad draft picks is kind of strange. 

To be fair, he was a very popular mock draft pick for the Browns that season. 

I know I was kind of happy to get him, I thought we got our version of the SEC kicker the Bengals drafted the year before or so (McPherson?)

@flugel said:

Austin Seibert

Oh yeah.  I remember him.  I looked him up.  He played 16 games for us in 2019.  But he was only 85% on extra points.  He missed 5 XP's.  And the funny part ('kicker' if you will) is that he only played one game for us in 2020.  In that game he attempted one extra point and missed it.     I'm assuming he got the 'boot' after the game.  

@orion said:

I think he was very highly rated coming out of college.  They obviously liked him.  We'll see how this saga turns out.  He's on the roster...for now.    

Per the part in bold, as was Zane Gonzalez (a Lou Groza award winner in 2016).  Another kicker they drafted was Austin Seibert out of Oklahoma; but I heard he was kind of weirdo aside from not being worthy of keeping.  Like you said, we'll see how this turns out.

@ibleedbrown said:

Heck yes. Hopkins is now the 5th highest paid kicker in the league. 

︎  Before seeing or hearing anything  else about the details   -    Just the basics   $15.9 M  ÷  3 years  =  $ 5.3 M/ year..     Sounds like big money for   "THE"   kicker.

It may work out well for both sides   -   only time will tell.   

@flugel said:

I agree; but why Cade?  This loyalty to bad draft picks is kind of strange. 

I think he was very highly rated coming out of college.  They obviously liked him.  We'll see how this saga turns out.  He's on the roster...for now.    

@orion said:

Use him as a camp leg.  Cut him at CutDowns.  Then try and PS him...or someone else.  With the PS the way it is we should always have a kicker on it...ready to go in and kick the next week. 

I agree; but why Cade?  This loyalty to bad draft picks is kind of strange. 

@flugel said:

good news for Cade is that Jimmy is still willing to pay him

Use him as a camp leg.  Cut him at CutDowns.  Then try and PS him...or someone else.  With the PS the way it is we should always have a kicker on it...ready to go in and kick the next week. 

@orion said:

And technically Cade York is still on the roster.  See Cade?  That's how much you make if you can kick the ball between the uprights.  

More specifically Cade, it's about the same odds as winning the lottery.  The good news for Cade is that Jimmy is still willing to pay him for his lost art.  

@vambo said:

Cleveland on Monday signed Hopkins to a three-year, $15.9 million contract with $8.36 million guaranteed.

And technically Cade York is still on the roster.  See Cade?  That's how much you make if you can kick the ball between the uprights.