@orion said:

The truck stops that Jimmuh's Dad and he took over went from dumpy dives to Truck Stop Villa's.  Foxborough is a no place type of place....except now there's Patriot's Place.  It's an attraction on it's own....and ya don't have to fight your way into Boston to go there...people go there just for the sake of going there.  Now, if the Pat's turn into mush...and aren't too good for a bunch of years...I don't know how many will be attracted to Patriot's Place.  

Yep, and there is some decent money on that side of town.  It will draw in people who have some money to spend.

It there was a place downtown to buiod, they probably would have.  The problem was there isn't.  The only places they could go would have been the fringes of the city on the east side and that isn't the target audience.  Money is limited and crime is a problem.

@dutch-oven said:

Driving in Cleveland isn't anything like Boston though. It generally isn't a huge ordeal. 

I'm certain you're right.  I shouldn't be comparing Boston...but then, I don't even like going into Providence...and it's only 4 miles from me.    

@orion said:

The truck stops that Jimmuh's Dad and he took over went from dumpy dives to Truck Stop Villa's.  Foxborough is a no place type of place....except now there's Patriot's Place.  It's an attraction on it's own....and ya don't have to fight your way into Boston to go there...people go there just for the sake of going there.  Now, if the Pat's turn into mush...and aren't too good for a bunch of years...I don't know how many will be attracted to Patriot's Place.  

You've mentioned how tough it is to drive in Boston and why Patriots Place in the suburbs is nice multiple times.

Driving in Cleveland isn't anything like Boston though. It generally isn't a huge ordeal. 

But hey, different strokes, different folks. 

@dutch-oven said:

it will be interesting to see how the area would be built up. I'm guessing you've never been to that area, but it's not exactly "happening". Think a beat-up four lane road with porn shops and fast food places. 

The truck stops that Jimmuh's Dad and he took over went from dumpy dives to Truck Stop Villa's.  Foxborough is a no place type of place....except now there's Patriot's Place.  It's an attraction on it's own....and ya don't have to fight your way into Boston to go there...people go there just for the sake of going there.  Now, if the Pat's turn into mush...and aren't too good for a bunch of years...I don't know how many will be attracted to Patriot's Place.  

@orion said:

Apparently the heat was set to high on that back burner.  

A little bit ago someone here (Dutch?) mentioned that if a new stadium was going to be built (in or out of the city) then it's actually time to be starting the process.  

I saw where there's a train station / stop right at that spot on a map.  Handy.

I think it'll be better for the football team in terms of players' willingness to come to the Browns.  No more playing in cold, wet and/or freezing conditions.  That's what matters to me...since I live far away the other events that could be held there are meaningless.  

In the video I or syd posted (I watched both, can't remember which one) it is mentioned that ground could be broke next year, which I think would put the first season at 2028. 

I think you are right, I think having a dome would help some in getting free agents. Regarding "the other events", it will be interesting to see how the area would be built up. I'm guessing you've never been to that area, but it's not exactly "happening". Think a beat-up four lane road with porn shops and fast food places. 

I'm looking forward to some real honest-to-dog drawings of what this dome and area would look like. I'm also interested in seeing how this affects the other two relatively close NFL teams - the Steelers and Bengals. I have a feeling if the Browns end up with this state-of-the-art new dome surrounded by a "ballpark village", those teams are going to look at their 20+ year old stadiums and start telling everyone how "antiquated" they are too. 

@orion said:

The back-burner stadium saga continues.

Apparently the heat was set to high on that back burner.  

A little bit ago someone here (Dutch?) mentioned that if a new stadium was going to be built (in or out of the city) then it's actually time to be starting the process.  

I saw where there's a train station / stop right at that spot on a map.  Handy.

I think it'll be better for the football team in terms of players' willingness to come to the Browns.  No more playing in cold, wet and/or freezing conditions.  That's what matters to me...since I live far away the other events that could be held there are meaningless.  

Very interesting video, and I've been saying what the guys on here are saying - the Browns were never staying downtown. They'll play the game with the City of Cleveland for leverage, but a Jimmy World 2.0 has always been what the Haslams have wanted, and you can't do that in a landlocked downtown. 

Also, almost in passing, they mentioned the Guardians new minority owner (who eventually could/will end up being the majority owner) who is rumored to have big plans around Progressive Field. There's a chance that the area around the ballpark could look very different in a decade, since he bought up a good portion of it. "Ballpark Villages" are the rage with pro owners. 

@orion said:

I'd 'assume' (since I don't 'know') that larger crowds of Browns games would make for longer exit times.  

...another good thing of The Patriots Train, it pulls away from the stadium 30 min after the game ends.  No train traffic.  

I mentioned going to Browns games.

And we park halfway between Progressive Field and Browns Stadium. It's not that all that horrible to get out of town after the game. 

Honestly, Brookpark is what the Haslams want, and I feel like throwing a billion dollars at a quickly and relatively cheaply built Cleveland Browns Stadium would end up being a really questionable fiscal decision. I'd rather the Browns built a dome in downtown, but that isn't going to happen either.

One way or another, this whole process should be interesting to watch go down. 

I get it- I fondly remember about 15 years ago of going to Carolina Panthers game with my brother and just pregaming out of the car, cooking up hot dogs, etc. But with the cost to do anything nowadays (and of course having two kids), I want to feel like the experience is worth it and get that "bang for your buck". As much as its a mixed bag, I think this whole thing makes a lot of sense. Hell, I will 100x more inclined to travel to a few games as opposed to the current stadium situation.

@orion said:

I'd 'assume' (since I don't 'know') that larger crowds of Browns games would make for longer exit times.  

...another good thing of The Patriots Train, it pulls away from the stadium 30 min after the game ends.  No train traffic.  

It's way easier to leave a Guardians game.

@dutch-oven said:

I go to Guardians and Browns games on a somewhat regular basis

I'd 'assume' (since I don't 'know') that larger crowds of Browns games would make for longer exit times.  

...another good thing of The Patriots Train, it pulls away from the stadium 30 min after the game ends.  No train traffic.  

@dutch-oven said:

I go to Guardians and Browns games on a somewhat regular basis.

It's not really that difficult to get in and out, but then again, I'm not trying to go to the most popular pregame spot before Browns games.

But I'm sure Brookpark will be a breeze. ?

It may not be a breeze, but it will be easier than exiting downtown or getting to the game.  Downtown you almost always have to exit your lot the opposite direction than you want to go unless you want to wait a long time to get a gap to cut across a lane.  You can zig zag you way around, but it takes forever.

As with Bob, I parked in the flats as well.  It worked out fine until the Waterfront line was closed for 3-4 years.  I didn't like the walk up the steep incline.  Even Columbus was hard to get a left on to W25th.  I figured out other ways out of the flats...Scranton Rd somehow got me to a pint I could head to the hotel....I think the cut over was Valentine Rd....half the time i wasn't totally sure and turned where i saw other cars turning..It worked 70% of the time.  The other 30% turned in to a cuss fest.

@bob806 said:

Damn, I've had season tickets since 1979, always tailgate in the Flats near the Flat Iron, & hardly ever have issues with traffic. It's about a 1 mile walk back to the truck from the stadium, so by the time I get back there, rarely do I have to wait to get out (right up the Columbus Rd. hill). Just my opinion, West siders going to the Muni Lot make it harder on themselves as you put yourself in the worst parking situation imaginable for Cleveland.

I go to Guardians and Browns games on a somewhat regular basis.

It's not really that difficult to get in and out, but then again, I'm not trying to go to the most popular pregame spot before Browns games.

But I'm sure Brookpark will be a breeze. ?

@ballpeen said:

I stopped driving to the Muni or wherever downtown and take the Rapid from Brookpark station.

For Patriots games my son & I would drive to Attleborough (20 minutes from home) and park for free at the train station and take the train to the stadium.  (called The Patriots Train on game days)  When I was young and handsome ( lol ) a bunch of us would drive up there for 9:00 and wait on Route 1 for the lots to open at 9:30.  We'd park along the perimeter (woods behind us) and party, cook, drink (and such), toss the pigskin, listen to music, etc.  Ahh, those were the good ol' days.  Now, even though the stadium is in Foxborough and not in Boston it still took time for the lots to empty onto Route 1 (which was coned off to make 3 lanes exiting in each direction) but it's NOTHING like having to head home from Fenway Park after a Red Sox game.  That's pure hell.

@browns149 said:

As someone who had season tickets for 18 years, the downtown location is TERRIBLE. Getting in and out, when we would drive, was HORRIBLE. I stopped driving down and I would take the train from the airport. 
Even when I would go to a tailgate, I still would take the train. Then meet up with friends in the muni lot. 
I don’t live in Cleveland anymore, so it really doesn’t matter to me, but when I did live there, in Fairview Park, the Brookpark stadium would’ve been ideal 

Damn, I've had season tickets since 1979, always tailgate in the Flats near the Flat Iron, & hardly ever have issues with traffic. It's about a 1 mile walk back to the truck from the stadium, so by the time I get back there, rarely do I have to wait to get out (right up the Columbus Rd. hill). Just my opinion, West siders going to the Muni Lot make it harder on themselves as you put yourself in the worst parking situation imaginable for Cleveland.

@flugel said:

I have so many fond memories with family and friends visiting that stadium that I now have a panoramic view 46 yard line view of the stadium in frame hanging up in the man cave.  Having said that, I don't think the players adored playing on green colored infield dirt that hardened like uneven cement on some very cold November and December Sundays.

I WILL say this - if the Buffalo Bills never moved from their dump in the City of Buffalo to Orchard Park in 1973 they probably wouldn't be the only NY football team still playing in NY.  Why did the Jets move away from Shea Stadium (just a couple rock throws from the airport)?  Why did the Giants move away from their stadium?  They're both playing in Jersey because parking and bottle necked traffic in NYC is a nightmare.  If subway trains or paying for taxis was a solution - they would have been right?  Both franchises alleviated a lot of that for their fans while SHARING a stadium at the Meadowlands.  A lot of their fanbases either resided on Long Island or New Jersey anyway.  These sound like a lot of the same reasons I'm reading in this thread.

I'm from Western NY (Rochester/Fairport the town that borders their training camp); and I'll guarantee you if Buffalo just had a brand new stadium built in 1999 - that stuff I bolded from you above would be the ONLY train of thought today. I grew up in an area that was heavily populated with Italians, which means I'm easy to cook for.  FWIW, most of the sports-smart Italians there grew up as Cleveland Browns fans. Before I lost count in the 90s, that were up to 4 different Browns Backers Clubs.  I never knew how much I'd miss pizza and subs until I moved out of state.  Some states don't understand why putting sandwich meats and cheese in a hot dog roll isn't more popular.  Ummm, if you don't understand how important the bread is - you're in the wrong business... It's like giving your customers chicken wings with soggy skin and wondering why they're so much more popular up north.  Hmmm...  And Nashville hot is mostly the type of pepper you put in a shaker with sissy amount of cayenne pepper. 

You're making too much sense lol. 

@dutch-oven said:

Hell, Haslam even said that he is leaning towards Brookpark because it would be the best long-term fix - and here's the kicker - he said it would solve where the Browns play for 20 or so years. $2.4 billion just so we can start doing this nonsense over in two decades. For those keeping track at home, Cleveland Stadium hosted the Indians/Browns for over 60 years. 

I have so many fond memories with family and friends visiting that stadium that I now have a panoramic 46 yard line view of the stadium in frame hanging up in the man cave.  Having said that, I don't think the players adored playing on green colored infield dirt that hardened like uneven cement on some very cold November and December Sundays.

I WILL say this - if the Buffalo Bills never moved from their dump in the City of Buffalo to Orchard Park in 1973 they probably wouldn't be the only NY football team still playing in NY.  Why did the Jets move away from Shea Stadium (just a couple rock throws from the airport)?  Why did the Giants move away from their stadium?  They're both playing in Jersey because parking and bottle necked traffic in NYC is a nightmare.  If subway trains or paying for taxis was a solution - they would have been right?  Both franchises alleviated a lot of that for their fans while SHARING a stadium at the Meadowlands.  A lot of their fanbases either resided on Long Island or New Jersey anyway.  These sound like a lot of the same reasons I'm reading in this thread.

I'm from Western NY (Rochester/Fairport the town that borders the Buffalo Bills training camp today); and I'll guarantee you if Buffalo just had a brand new stadium built in 1999 - that stuff I bolded from you above would be the ONLY train of thought today. I grew up in an area that was heavily populated with Italians, which means I'm easy to cook for.  FWIW, most of the sports-smart Italians there grew up as Cleveland Browns fans. Before I lost count in the 90s, they were up to 4 different Browns Backers Clubs.  I never knew how much I'd miss pizza and subs until I moved out of state.  Some states don't understand why putting sandwich meats and cheese in a hot dog roll isn't more popular.  Ummm, if you don't understand how important the bread is - you're in the wrong business... Never-ever use a hot dog roll.   It's like giving your customers chicken wings with soggy skin and wondering why they're so much more popular up north.  Hmmm...  And Nashville hot is mostly the type of pepper you put in a shaker with a sissy amount of cayenne pepper. 

@orion said:

I've been waiting for someone like you to chime in.  I would've thought it would be a headache.

I echo what Browns149 said and have many times.  I stopped driving to the Muni or wherever downtown and take the Rapid from Brookpark station.  Basically you park for $5, which includes your roundtrip transportation.  I usually stay in Middleburgh Hts. at a Marriott which is maybe a 10 minute drive on the back roads from the train station.  I only stay downtown for night games.  Yes, I do have to pay for valet parking on those days which runs around $40 a day.

@dutch-oven said:

Cleveland Stadium hosted the Indians/Browns for over 60 years. 

They don't build 'em like that anymore. 

In reality though, that was a baseball stadium.  Not a great place for football.  The locker rooms were so small (again, for a baseball roster) that the Browns had to let the visitors use the home locker room because it was a little bigger.  

@dutch-oven said:

The "ballpark village" that allegedly will surround the dome in Brookpark will be a mediocre Crocker Park rip-off

In as much as I don't like the Haslems, the thing they were good at was taking dingy ol' truck stops and turning them into attractions with all kinds of amenities for truckers and travelers to stop, eat, shop, spend, etc.  (that and stealing the rebates from companies that used to by fuel from them)

@browns149 said:

As someone who had season tickets for 18 years, the downtown location is TERRIBLE. Getting in and out, when we would drive, was HORRIBLE. I stopped driving down and I would take the train from the airport. 
Even when I would go to a tailgate, I still would take the train. Then meet up with friends in the muni lot. 
I don’t live in Cleveland anymore, so it really doesn’t matter to me, but when I did live there, in Fairview Park, the Brookpark stadium would’ve been ideal 

Here's my prediction if they do move to Brookpark...

In less than 20 years there will be calls for a return to downtown Cleveland, because going to a domed stadium in the suburbs surrounded by parking lots is a boring, sterile endeavor. The "ballpark village" that allegedly will surround the dome in Brookpark will be a mediocre Crocker Park rip-off, and will struggle to bring people to it consistently. 

Hell, Haslam even said that he is leaning towards Brookpark because it would be the best long-term fix - and here's the kicker - he said it would solve where the Browns play for 20 or so years. 

$2.4 billion just so we can start doing this nonsense over in two decades. For those keeping track at home, Cleveland Stadium hosted the Indians/Browns for over 60 years. 

@browns149 said:

As someone who had season tickets for 18 years, the downtown location is TERRIBLE. Getting in and out,

I've been waiting for someone like you to chime in.  I would've thought it would be a headache.

There’s some people on TV saying their downtown business is counting on the Browns generated revenue.

If that’s the case, they’re basing their business model on 8-10 home games a year? ?