@orion said:

Sounds like discipline issues.

I think we have some, but I am not sure I understand your comment.  Moore?  If so I think it is established he is a problem child.  He left the Jets under a cloud.  Now we have reports he missed the 1st qtr. for punching another player. 

The guy seems hard to please.  Maybe he spends too much time looking at others to blame and not enough time looking at himself?  That is my guess.  His days in Cleveland are numbers.  Given the current status of the team and the number of younger guys we need to look at in game situations, I'd just cut bait now.

The question Berry needs to address is if Moore is going to help us win games down the stretch, not to mention in the future?  If he can't say yes to both of those, it's an easy decision in my book.  I like Berry, but he is too loyal to "his guys" and gives too many chances to players with a checkered history.  It's like he drafts or signs these guys then simply turns the problem children over to the coaches to somehow get them turned around.

@bbedward said:

Definitely not at fault for the terrible throw and decision, just seemed like he gave up on his route too early.

Maybe so.  But maybe he started to slow down to get in a blocking position.

@ballpeen said:

The announcer spelled it out on the Moore route.  His job was to clear out for the underneath who i think was Tillman.  The ball was overthrown to Tillman.  I am no fan of Moore, but I don't think he was at fault on that one.

Definitely not at fault for the terrible throw and decision, just seemed like he gave up on his route too early.

@texasag1969 said:

Fool me once................................??

Working on it you old rascal... 

@bbedward said:

On DTRs second INT, which was obviously completely his fault and a terrible throw, but before the throw Elijah was jogging his route and obviously let up before the ball was even thrown. His role on the play was to keep the safety engaged and deep and he made 0 attempt at all to do it.

The WR room is in shambles big time, Cooper wanted out, Moore quitting routes, Jeudy supposedly bitching and moaning. 
 

Chad O Shea is one guy they should have shit canned over AVP, not nearly enough from the WR room in terms of young talent development or anything else 

The announcer spelled it out on the Moore route.  His job was to clear out for the underneath who i think was Tillman.  The ball was overthrown to Tillman.  I am no fan of Moore, but I don't think he was at fault on that one.

@flugel said:

You didn't hear?  They just announced they're gonna play that game on Tuesday Night instead.  

Fool me once................................??

@dutch-oven said:

Tuesday morning ?

Two in the morning.  

@flugel said:

You didn't hear?  They just announced they're gonna play that game on Tuesday Night instead.  

Tuesday morning ?

@texasag1969 said:

I am going to that Denver game on MNF. Look for the open black leather jacket with #95 Browns jersey underneath and field glasses. I'll have a maroon A&M cap on.?

You didn't hear?  They just announced they're gonna play that game on Tuesday Night instead.  

@ballpeen said:

We can't just abandon the modern NFL offense to revert back to a 70's O.

There's nothing in the laws of physics that says you can't do that.  But if it isn't successful you immediately get fired.  So...analytics...13 yard pass...  

One would start by drafting Carson Beck.  

@tiamat63 said:

 While you're not entirely wrong, there's also the problem this presents by not further building upon and improving his offense by (slowly) integrating RPO designs either from under center or the gun. 

 Like it or not, RPO plays have their effectiveness and merit.  As the saying goes "show them it's in the bag". 

I agree.  'Three yards and a cloud of dust" still left you with 4th down.

We can't just abandon the modern NFL offense to revert back to a 70's O.

@dutch-oven said:

Watson is gone, so they should just scrap this abortion of an attempt to run the RPO and go back to Stefanski’s offense. 

 While you're not entirely wrong, there's also the problem this presents by not further building upon and improving his offense by (slowly) integrating RPO designs either from under center or the gun. 

 Like it or not, RPO plays have their effectiveness and merit.  As the saying goes "show them it's in the bag". 

@dutch-oven said:

I'd walk down Euclid Avenue in a thong after the season ended if they even managed four more wins. 

Oh please, oh please God...don't let them win four games!

8    Oct 27, 2024   vs   Baltimore    
9    Nov 3, 2024    vs  L.A. Chargers        
10    —  BYE   
11    Nov 17, 2024    @   New Orleans
12    Nov 21, 2024    vs  Pittsburgh  8:15 pm
13    Dec 2, 2024    @   Denver   8:15 pm
14    Dec 8, 2024    @  Pittsburgh
15    Dec 15, 2024    vs  Kansas City
16    Dec 19, 2024   @  Cincinnati  8:15 pm
17    Dec 29, 2024   vs   Miami  8:20 pm
18    Jan 5, 2025      @  Baltimore

.........Looks like 3 possible wins.  Chargers, Saints & Dolphins.  Denver is another game they could win.  It's in Denver, at night, in the thin air.  But they've got lots of time to prepare for that game so they could, in theory, travel up to Denver early to get acclimated to the air.

Lastly, it's the season's finale.  So...Here's the scenario...If the Browns lose they're assured of the #1 pick in the draft.  The Ravens have the #2 seed locked up and will not be playing Lamar Jackson and several other starters.   The reality here is that this is a VERY important game for ONE of the teams.  And the importance is for the one team to lose to the other team that's playing backup players and resting starters ahead of a playoff game.   Such a game would have the potential to get morally ugly.  
 

@bbedward said:

On DTRs second INT, which was obviously completely his fault and a terrible throw, but before the throw Elijah was jogging his route and obviously let up before the ball was even thrown. His role on the play was to keep the safety engaged and deep and he made 0 attempt at all to do it.

The WR room is in shambles big time, Cooper wanted out, Moore quitting routes, Jeudy supposedly bitching and moaning. 
 

Chad O Shea is one guy they should have shit canned over AVP, not nearly enough from the WR room in terms of young talent development or anything else 

Watson is gone, so they should just scrap this abortion of an attempt to run the RPO and go back to Stefanski’s offense. 

@dutch-oven said:

Makes sense, especially if DTR hurt his hand during the Bengals game.

Speaking of rumors, supposedly Elijah Moore sat half the game because he punched a teammate? 

On DTRs second INT, which was obviously completely his fault and a terrible throw, but before the throw Elijah was jogging his route and obviously let up before the ball was even thrown. His role on the play was to keep the safety engaged and deep and he made 0 attempt at all to do it.

The WR room is in shambles big time, Cooper wanted out, Moore quitting routes, Jeudy supposedly bitching and moaning. 
 

Chad O Shea is one guy they should have shit canned over AVP, not nearly enough from the WR room in terms of young talent development or anything else 

@ibleedbrown said:

Looks like Winston gets the start next game.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10140524-browns-rumors-jameis-winston-to-start-vs-ravens-over-dtr-amid-deshaun-watson-injury.amp.html

Makes sense, especially if DTR hurt his hand during the Bengals game.

Speaking of rumors, supposedly Elijah Moore sat half the game because he punched a teammate? 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10140524-browns-rumors-jameis-winston-to-start-vs-ravens-over-dtr-amid-deshaun-watson-injury.amp.html

@dutch-oven said:

I'd be somewhat shocked if the Browns drafted outside the top 2

FIFY?

@bbedward said:

I guess I have a theory that with a semi decent QB this team is not as bad as they are on paper. Whether or not that’s true, we will see in the coming weeks. 

Sure our OL sucks, but they graded pretty well this past week outside of Dunn and Wills, our receivers can’t catch (fire Chad o shea already Jesus Christ), but they’ve had separation and a lot of openings that Watson missed (by not throwing their way at all) or misfired (every time he did throw over 10 yards). We kinda said the same thing last year about the crap OL killing Flacco, and receivers being awful - then Flacco came in and spread the field. I think this team isn’t that different.

I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong, but I kinda think the Winston part of the year will have a resurgence in overall team competence. His garbage time drive just reinforced my thoughts on the matter. 
 

But I’m gonna hold you to the thong thing 

You are right, we will see how this plays out.

If Stefanski shifts back to his offense, there's a chance the offense gets more productive.

But this season really, really reminds me of the 1990 Browns season. The 1989 Browns cobbled together an AFC Central division title and made it to the AFC Championship, losing AGAIN to the Denver Broncos. The next season the team absolutely imploded, specifically the OLine fell apart due to age, and the team limped to a 3-13 finish. 

I'd be somewhat shocked if the Browns drafted outside the top 5.