@jax said:

Our AI friend took offense to copping out, I think we may just have a dumbass on our hands, not AI.

Society has no business in determining whether a mom or dad get to kill their baby.

The main reason the mom gets the decision is because it's her body, that's it.

However, if you can follow along, we're talking that being pro life is about raising the baby, in which case the dad wanting to keep the baby instead of killing it has nothing to do with loyalty to the mom but loyalty to the life he created.

I'm shortening this up because I don't want to waste too much time on a dumbass, AI or not.

robert may be a grad student. that would explain a lot.....maybe dei...

but is sounding like a dumbass, true.

@robert333 said:

to support my proposition that selfishness seems to lie at the basis of both sides. 

What a moronic proposition.

@robert333 said:

Its no "cop-out" to point out that the man does have persuasion on the issue if he shows loyalty to his woman.

Its also no "cop-out" to point out that it's the woman who has the baby not the man, so that society naturally grants the woman the decision.
Another way of looking at this is that the bias is within nature to be pro-reproduction!

Our AI friend took offense to copping out, I think we may just have a dumbass on our hands, not AI.

Society has no business in determining whether a mom or dad get to kill their baby.

The main reason the mom gets the decision is because it's her body, that's it.

However, if you can follow along, we're talking that being pro life is about raising the baby, in which case the dad wanting to keep the baby instead of killing it has nothing to do with loyalty to the mom but loyalty to the life he created.

I'm shortening this up because I don't want to waste too much time on a dumbass, AI or not.

@fy56 said:

Well it’s not a miracle either, reproduction is a natural occurrence in nature.

 I was not using the terms “miracle” and “mistake” in the literal sense.

I appreciate you pointing out other typical words that people tend to use on each side of the "proChoiceproLife" debate, which tends to support my proposition that selfishness seems to lie at the basis of both sides. 

Another interesting common phase I've noticed (it may be more common in the U.K.), is:
"falling pregnant", 
which implies an "accident", or indeed a "mistake".

@robert333 said:

Consensual sexual intercourse without protection or without sufficient protection, is not (at least in biology) any "mistake"!
Or put another way, we do not have any argument to partake in the pleasure, while claiming to forget the biological purpose of the act of reproduction !

Well it’s not a miracle either, reproduction is a natural occurrence in nature.

 I was not using the terms “miracle” and “mistake” in the literal sense.

@fy56 said:

Or if they want the baby..."it's a miracle"

And if they don't ..."it's a mistake".

Choice takes on a sort of different meaning.

Consensual sexual intercourse without protection or without sufficient protection, is not (at least in biology) any "mistake"!
Or put another way, we do not have any argument to partake in the pleasure, while claiming to forget the biological purpose of the act of reproduction !

@jax said:

Error, it's not so clear.

That is what I'm questioning, why is it only the woman that gets to "decide"?

You're apparently forgetting the life of the baby. The baby is the main reason people are pro life, without the baby there is no decision.

If you were to poll people alive today, that are mentally stable and not abused, what do you think the percentage of people wish that their parents aborted them?

On the topic of the father, why doesn't he have any rights at all in making the decision to keep the baby if it wasn't rape, incest and no life threatening condition.

I'm aware of the way it's been, but if we're talking about ending a life, why is the father helpless in protecting the life he also created?

Give a good answer without copping out again, as you brought this question into play by asking for woman posters.

Then rephrase your original question/thought.

Its no "cop-out" to point out that the man does have persuasion on the issue if he shows loyalty to his woman.

Its also no "cop-out" to point out that it's the woman who has the baby not the man, so that society naturally grants the woman the decision.
Another way of looking at this is that the bias is within nature to be pro-reproduction!

@robert333 said:

Well this Topic is from last year 2024, yet the "proChoiceproLife" debate never gets old, does it! 

[By the way: Are there woman members on this Forum? I ask because on this subject, the female perspective rather tends to be relevant!]

The following are characteristics I have observed from both sides of this debate. 
Consider this:

When a woman wants her pregnancy, she refers to her pregnancy as: 
"My child / my baby".

When a woman does not want her pregnancy, she refers to her pregnancy as:
"The fetus / my body".

My conclusion, while sincerely not seeking to upset anyone on either side of the debate:
While recognizing that a proportion of pregnancies are due to incest / rape:
Otherwise, the debate boils down to female-selfishness!

 

Or if they want the baby..."it's a miracle"

And if they don't ..."it's a mistake".

Choice takes on a sort of different meaning.

@diehardbrownsfan1 said:

Yep, I'm sure Woody is an expert on why women get abortions with all the women he has knocked up.?

That is what I'm questioning, why is it only the woman that gets to "decide"?

You're apparently forgetting the life of the baby. The baby is the main reason people are pro life, without the baby there is no decision.

If you were to poll people alive today, that are mentally stable and not abused, what do you think the percentage of people wish that their parents aborted them?

On the topic of the father, why doesn't he have any rights at all in making the decision to keep the baby if it wasn't rape, incest and no life threatening condition.

I'm aware of the way it's been, but if we're talking about ending a life, why is the father helpless in protecting the life he also created?

Give a good answer without copping out again, as you brought this question into play by asking for woman posters.

Then rephrase your original question/thought.

@jax said:

Not referring to rape or incest, but does the man ever get a say? The pregnant woman didn't become pregnant on her own, they both share in the responsibility for contributing in an act that could have a baby as an outcome. If the man wanted the baby, why should only the woman have the decision to abort or not? Especially if it's not life threatening.

There is a difference between "deciding" and "persuading".
It should be clear why it is typically the woman's "decision", yet my impression is that the man is able to "persuade" (for whatever is his view), where he is showing loyalty and support to his woman. 

However, what I asked about in my first post on this thread (which is on this page) is about the "proChoiceproLife" issue as a whole.

@hoorta said:

disagree... I expect it to pass, rather easily. I couldn't find the number, but I'm sure it was in the 100s of thousands of signatures to get Issue 1 on the ballot in the first place. The number of Ohioans who are totally fed up with the repeated bullshit of Republicans drawing up gerrymandered districts- only to have them repeatedly get shot down by the Ohio Supreme Court is legion. The howling from the State GOP officeholders tells me everything I need to know. As Woody posted...  It's written confusingly on purpose by Republicans trying to preserve their power grab. IIRC, the final wording of the ballot language wound up being contested in court- more than once.  

Ohio's Issue 1 was rejected by voters with a tally of 57% against and 43% in favor. This outcome reflects the majority's decision to maintain the current process for constitutional amendments.?

@robert333 said:

Are there any women members of this Board who can be invited to discuss this (unemotionally?) (referring of course to the first post I put on this thread)?

Not referring to rape or incest, but does the man ever get a say? The pregnant woman didn't become pregnant on her own, they both share in the responsibility for contributing in an act that could have a baby as an outcome. If the man wanted the baby, why should only the woman have the decision to abort or not? Especially if it's not life threatening.

@axe said:

So do tell, why and when did you have your first one?

Yep, I'm sure Woody is an expert on why women get abortions with all the women he has knocked up.?

@hammertime said:

In all these cases what is the percentage of times where’s its the baby’s fault?

Contributor "hammertime" knows the answer to their own question, and so I invite them to say why they pose it while also giving if they can, a substantive answer to the first post I put on this thread (which is on this page).

Are there any women members of this Board who can be invited to discuss this (unemotionally?) (referring of course to the first post I put on this thread)?

@robert333 said:

I searched for a percentage for rape / incest related pregnancies,  but bear in mind that the term "rape" could include: 
incest, and 
non-reproductive penetration. 

The reader can view relevant statistics here:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/!

The possibility of any female-selfishness, to which I referred in my post above, cannot apply in the case of rape.

In all these cases what is the percentage of times where’s its the baby’s fault?

@hammertime said:

Define proportion of pregnancies.

I searched for a percentage for rape / incest related pregnancies,  but bear in mind that the term "rape" could include: 
incest, and 
non-reproductive penetration. 

The reader can view relevant statistics here:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/!

The possibility of any female-selfishness, to which I referred in my post above, cannot apply in the case of rape.

@robert333 said:

Otherwise, the debate boils down to female-selfishness!

Doesn't it always my friend?

@robert333 said:

While recognizing that a proportion of pregnancies are due to incest / rape:

< 2%

@robert333 said:

Well this Topic is from last year 2024, yet the "proChoiceproLife" debate never gets old, does it! 

[By the way: Are there woman members on this Forum? I ask because on this subject, the female perspective rather tends to be relevant!]

The following are characteristics I have observed from both sides of this debate. 
Consider this:

When a woman wants her pregnancy, she refers to her pregnancy as: 
"My child / my baby".

When a woman does not want her pregnancy, she refers to her pregnancy as:
"The fetus / my body".

My conclusion, while sincerely not seeking to upset anyone on either side of the debate:
While recognizing that a proportion of pregnancies are due to incest / rape:
Otherwise, the debate boils down to female-selfishness!

 

Define proportion of pregnancies.

[By the way: Are there woman members on this Forum? I ask because on this subject, the female perspective rather tends to be relevant!]

The following are characteristics I have observed from both sides of this debate. 
Consider this:

When a woman wants her pregnancy, she refers to her pregnancy as: 
"My child / my baby".

When a woman does not want her pregnancy, she refers to her pregnancy as:
"The fetus / my body".

My conclusion, while sincerely not seeking to upset anyone on either side of the debate:
While recognizing that a proportion of pregnancies are due to incest / rape:
Otherwise, the debate boils down to female-selfishness!

 

"defund police", "no arrests for non-violent crime", "assisted illegal drug use for illegal drug users" "abortion on demand at any length of pregnanacy", "releasing violent criminals/illegals" from custody, harboring illegals in "sanctuary cities"...."dei" emphasis on hiring in gov and the private sector, required dei in the military, teaching young children about perverted subjects........

it was a major vote getter for the left.

The American people have gotten sick of it, and voted to fix America.

under zero circumstances is it alright to kill a baby.

what the hell is wrong with people?

shrinking down the viability date is a start but for crying out loud doesn’t any actually think about how God is gonna feel about us snuffing out the most precious thing he gives us?

keep in mind that the baby didn’t do anything wrong.

no matter what happened, life was created and to end it is murder.