@ap1 said:

There is an element of the 21st Century Football mindset that believes this to be an archaic form of troglodyte football, but it's more of a hybrid of the West Coast and Run 'N Shoot. 

It was fun football to watch. TEs playing with their hands in the dirt. QBs playing under center, having to know how to read and entire defense and true slots that weren't afraid to go over the middle.

Well said AP!  I like the philosophy of spreading the field horizontally to exploit any/all opportunities that opens to beat people vertically.  For example, overtime against Pittsburgh in 1986 - guess who beats Pittsburgh over the top for a walk-off 36 yard TD reception?  Webster Slaughter.  

@ap1 said:

I stand corrected on his age. 

Remember this is the Browns front office we are talking about.  My guess: a 2nd pound pick and a conditional 5th

@flugel said:

Best gridiron chess player I've seen here. He arrived the offseason after Mack & Byner both rushed for over 1000 yards apiece.   He dictated.  There were teams chomping at the bits to blitz a cement shoe'd but highly cerebral and deadly accurate QB (Bernie Kosar).  He exploited the blitz throwing the the vacated hook zones and flats.  Quietly, our killer combo on 3rd downs was Brian Brennan running the slants and 3rd down RB Herman Fontenot running wheel routes/swing passes.  We also has TE Ozzie Newsome.  Bernie spread the ball around.  Fun times.

There is an element of the 21st Century Football mindset that believes this to be an archaic form of troglodyte football, but it's more of a hybrid of the West Coast and Run 'N Shoot. 

It was fun football to watch. TEs playing with their hands in the dirt. QBs playing under center, having to know how to read and entire defense and true slots that weren't afraid to go over the middle.

@sdbacker80 said:

Myles is 29 (just turned 29) with no major knee or back issues that could plague a pass rusher.

I stand corrected on his age. 

@bob806 said:

The slant pass was unstoppable. 

The play fake and toss to the TE under the goalposts, unstoppable.

Why these aren't implemented today, I don't know.

Best gridiron chess player I've seen here. He arrived the offseason after Mack & Byner both rushed for over 1000 yards apiece.   He dictated.  There were teams chomping at the bits to blitz a cement shoe'd but highly cerebral and deadly accurate QB (Bernie Kosar).  He exploited the blitz throwing at the vacated hook zones, flats and all gray areas in between.  Quietly, our killer combo on 3rd downs was Brian Brennan running the slants and 3rd down RB Herman Fontenot running wheel routes/swing passes.  The Browns also had big plays and production from TE Ozzie Newsome; and WRs: Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, and Clarence Weathers. Bernie spread the ball around.  Fun times.

I loved the winning mentality of "You'll blitz our QB when the Browns tell you it's okay to blitz. And good luck with that..."

@flugel said:

My favorite OC here was Lindy Infante.  I'm guessing there were guys just as good/better in the 40s, 50s and 60s though...

The slant pass was unstoppable. 

The play fake and toss to the TE under the goalposts, unstoppable.

Why these aren't implemented today, I don't know.

@ap1 said:

Here's the Kahlil Mack trade in 2018. I can't find or think of a better comparable trade, but Myles is better and on a better trajectory than Kahlil Mack.

Mack was 27, Myles is 30.

The Raiders received a 1st and 6th in 2019 and a 1st and 3rd in 2020.

The Bears received Mack, a 2nd in 2020 and a conditional 5th in 2020.

I know he's 30 but players with his ability don't grow on trees. Plus inflation!

The biggest obstacle is what you've mentioned - 30.  At 27 you've got a full 4 year contract without as much a risk of drop off. 

At 30, heading into his 9th season? Myles.... Not so much.  The clock is at a more accelerated rate.    That said anything is possible and a Superbowl contender might get desperate. 

@tiamat63 said:

Two is steep and likely wouldn't happen. Though it doesn't hurt to ask.  

A 1st along with another mid-rounder, maybe conditional mid-rounder, is the more reasonable value. 

Either way, the Browns are going to field calls for Myles and would be wise to listen. 

Here's the Kahlil Mack trade in 2018. I can't find or think of a better comparable trade, but Myles is better and on a better trajectory than Kahlil Mack.

Mack was 27, Myles is 30.

The Raiders received a 1st and 6th in 2019 and a 1st and 3rd in 2020.

The Bears received Mack, a 2nd in 2020 and a conditional 5th in 2020.

I know he's 30 but players with his ability don't grow on trees. Plus inflation!

Mack was two years younger than Myles when a trade could go down.

Bears gave up a 2nd and 7th along with Mack.

and they received a 1st and 6th and the following year a 1st and a 3rd 

the first round picks ended up being 24 and 19.  the ask would probably be similar.  I tend to think there would be a lot of interest as a guy like Myles could be still be a centerpiece to a defense. 
 

we would obviously need to figure out a way to make our defense better after this and it would likely be a combination of 2/3 really good football players on the front 7 and we need a enough bullets in the chamber to get a QB in 2026.  
 

I don’t do it. 

@ap1 said:

Myles is worth no less than two first round picks.

I'd start at asking for three.

Two is steep and likely wouldn't happen. Though it doesn't hurt to ask.  

A 1st along with another mid-rounder, maybe conditional mid-rounder, is the more reasonable value. 

Either way, the Browns are going to field calls for Myles and would be wise to listen. 

@dutch-oven said:

What do you think we would get for Myles?

I think you and I are probably miles apart on this. I think someone would give us a pretty hefty return, especially a team that feels it is one great defensive player away from a Super Bowl. 

Myles is worth no less than two first round picks.

I'd start at asking for three.

@bob806 said:

I'm wondering if that time machine can find Lindy Infante's offense, and Matthews, Johnson, & Johnson at LB

My favorite OC here was Lindy Infante.  I'm guessing there were guys just as good/better in the 40s, 50s and 60s though...

@usfbrown said:

I'm fine with him coming back too.  I don't like the continually fire coaches however I have my issues with him.   I'm not a fan of how he handled Watson, how long it took him to give up play calling, clock management mistakes, the Browns are continually top in penalties, he's a sub 500 coach.   

Flip what you said around - What has he done to convince you he's such a great coach?  

A team that only made the playoffs in 2002 suddenly made the playoffs in 2020 and 2023.

My take - we haven't drafted well and it's hurting us bad.

Second, there's too many Chiefs in the FO and unfortunately Depodesta has seniority as well as too much trust from Jimmy.  I could be wrong here but I get the impression he interferes with what Stefanski and Andrew Berry are capable of.  In baseball Depodesta doesn't need film to interfere with his numbers/analytics. In football, all matchups vary so film is VERY important.

If the Browns did end up going the route of changing the HC - my recommendation would be Buffalo's OC Joe Brady that upgraded his QB's significantly over that of Ken Dorsey back when Josh Allen threw a lot more INTs than he has since's Dorsey's exit.  All of a sudden, they have a pretty damn good candidate for MVP.  Here's a little something I Googled on his background - and try to remember when LSU won the Natty with a killer good passing game as you observe it. Before that, he was an offensive assistant in Drew Brees' passing game. Here's something I Googled and then I added Wikipedia to further illustrate where Ken Dorsey had them going before Joe Brady.  YES, he did have a brief stop at Carolina before Buffalo and blended in with stink just like Mayfield and Darnold did before they played their best NFL football on other teams.

 On February 4, 2022, Brady was hired by the Buffalo Bills as their quarterbacks coach.^[12] The Bills fired OC Ken Dorsey on November 14, 2023 after a 5–5 start to the 2023 season, and Brady was promoted to interim offensive coordinator.^[13] Under Brady, the Bills offense went from almost entirely focused on passing with quarterback Josh Allen and receiver Stefon Diggs to being more balanced and favoring running backs James Cook and Ty Johnson, also allowing Allen to run more.^[14][15] This new approach helped Buffalo win six of their final seven games to finish with an 11–6 record and their fourth consecutive AFC East title.^[16] The Bills promoted Brady to full-time offensive coordinator following the season.^[17]

@berniesuperbowl2 said:

1) Jimmy takes out an ad in the Plain Dealer and apologizes to the Cleveland Browns fan base. He refers to himelf as "dumbass owner" several times.

2) Jimmy hires a scientist to invent a time machine.

3) Using the time machine, Jimmy travels back in time to 2012 and prevents his younger self from buying the Browns. 

4) Using "Back to The Future" time travel rules, the future has now been altered in 2024. The Browns have a different owner, have won several Super Bowls, and are now a football dynasty in 2024. 

I'm wondering if that time machine can find Lindy Infante's offense, and Matthews, Johnson, & Johnson at LB

@orion said:

This would be my answer to your question USFBrown.  And how much has switching the play callers helped?  You still have the same players trying to execute the plays.

Last year Stef put the analytics playbook on the shelf and called the games such that whenever he could take a FG, he did.  Just to get some freakin' points.  But that's not what DePodesta wants.  And he's got Haslem's ear.  Do you remember DePo's statement a few years back?  We're not interested in 4 yard runs.  We want 13 yard passes.  Inevitably, everybody reports to someone.

Players fighting is a good point, but I don't see any other point.  Like I said - I'm not for firing all the time but I don't get why people think Stefanski is some great HC.  I agree we need some continuity but how much longer do we give this guy?

  Giving up play calling should in theory allow the coach to perform better clock management and overall game management.  I remember a stint where there was some really bad clock management early in the season.

2) Jimmy hires a scientist to invent a time machine.

3) Using the time machine, Jimmy travels back in time to 2012 and prevents his younger self from buying the Browns. 

4) Using "Back to The Future" time travel rules, the future has now been altered in 2024. The Browns have a different owner, have won several Super Bowls, and are now a football dynasty in 2024. 

@sdbacker80 said:

the team is fighting.  Last years effort with the revolving door of QBs none of which are top half of the league was impressive.

This would be my answer to your question USFBrown.  And how much has switching the play callers helped?  You still have the same players trying to execute the plays.

Last year Stef put the analytics playbook on the shelf and called the games such that whenever he could take a FG, he did.  Just to get some freakin' points.  But that's not what DePodesta wants.  And he's got Haslem's ear.  Do you remember DePo's statement a few years back?  We're not interested in 4 yard runs.  We want 13 yard passes.  Inevitably, everybody reports to someone.

@orion said:

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

I agree with you. 
And I should clarified…I’d keep Stefanski and I’d move on from Berry.  
 

Stefanski would have a job lined up tomorrow if he was fired tonight.  And any shuffle of him out and someone else in- does that move the needle at all?  Maybe a fresh voice?  Do we need that - the team is fighting.  Last years effort with the revolving door of QBs none of which are top half of the league was impressive.

@orion said:

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

I'm fine with him coming back too.  I don't like the continually fire coaches however I have my issues with him.   I'm not a fan of how he handled Watson, how long it took him to give up play calling, clock management mistakes, the Browns are continually top in penalties, he's a sub 500 coach.   

Flip what you said around - What has he done to convince you he's such a great coach?  

@orion said:

From what I'm seeing, there's a group thinking that because we're losing football games that it means that Stefanski sucks, stinks, whatever, and has to go.  To that I say, Do we understand how important the QB position is to the success of a football team?  

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.   

I'm absolutely fine with them bringing back Stefanski next year.

But they need to go back to HIS offense. With his offense, he took a team with five different quarterbacks starting to a 11-6 record in 2023. 

They might have to keep Watson around, but there's no reason they can't bring in someone else to start. Let Watson be the world's most expensive backup. Hell, let him be the world's most expensive #3 QB. 

What was he supposed to do to win with our QB room?  With our porous offensive line?  Our lack of ability to run the ball?   What magic tricks was he supposed to pull out of his (sleeve?) ?    He had Watson not playing pro bowl style...and not progressing rapidly.  And ultimately getting hurt and out for the year, again, and again.  Then he had to go to Winston, who's a great person....but he's a turnover machine.  Always has been.  And DTR.  Let's put aside that he's a 2 time coach of the year.  How could we TELL that he's a bad coach?  Don Shula in his football intellectual prime couldn't have done much better with what Stef has had to work with.  

The HC cannot block open holes for the RB's and cannot throw TD passes.  Until we shore up the OL and get a competent QB, nothing will change.