@dutch-oven said:

It's kind of amazing how bad quarterback coaching must have been back in the day @flugel... it was a totally different game almost, because some of the best QBs had some of the most pedestrian numbers. The passing game really was pretty archaic until the 80s into the 90s.

How desperate were teams in the 70s for a QB? The Browns traded away arguably one of the best WRs ever to the Dolphins for Mike Phipps because their QB Bill Neilsen had two of the most banged up knees in the history of knees, then like SEVEN years later with some of the most godawful stats you'd ever seen the Browns somehow got the Chicago Bears to give them a first round pick for Phipps. That's some stellar QB scouting going on then. 

That's true about the coaching Dutch.  A very small hand full of teams may have had good QB coaching. Back then, passing wasn't the biggest component of the offense so teams could still win without having one of the elite QBs.  In fact, the 72 Dolphins went most of their undefeated season with a backup QB Earl Morrall - who previously backed of Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Len Dawson, Y.A. Tittle before he did this for Bob Griese.  That 72 season Had both Csonka and Mercury Morris rushing for over 1000 yards apiece in a 14 game season while Jim Kiick was on his 3rd straight season rushing for over 500 yards in part time duty.  To keep teams from loading the box - the Cleveland Browns gift wrapped them the 4.3 speed and HOF talent of Paul Warfield to exploit cheatin DBs up into run support.  Back then, the NFL didn't hurry the growth and development process of young QBs like we see today.  The era we're in today demands early success far more than it did back then.

Today?  Everything depends on the pass so that's the oxygen needed to win.  And there hasn't been a worse team at drafting QBs than the one we follow. Loved Kosar but that was the 85 Supplemental Draft.  Loved Sipe, but he was a 13th round draft pick  that was fortunate to have our 3rd overall pick (Mike Phipps from the Warfield trade) fail.  He was kind of an accidental success if you will.  Just as important as the QB we draft - is the readiness of tis organization and coaching staff to develop him into offense that has somewhat of a love-connection compatibility to the guy's skillset and wiring.  Not only that; but give the guy some tools and toys to work with.  And how about one of the best LTs in the draft to lock down the blind side?  Not impossible...

FWIW, Bradshaw had a long career so the memorable stats for him and Steeler fans came after those stats I shared.  My point in showing those stats is to remind us all that some guys take longer than others to develop.  Part of that in Pitt was drafting Swann and Stallworth, better OLinemen, and Franco Harris.  Aside from that, they began to field a defense that could cause turnovers and give their QB a short field.  That got even more frequent with the more HOF guys they drafted.  

One thing that has never changed is you are what you draft.  I hope Berry is ready to draft near/at the top of every round.  

How desperate were teams in the 70s for a QB? The Browns traded away arguably one of the best WRs ever to the Dolphins for Mike Phipps because their QB Bill Neilsen had two of the most banged up knees in the history of knees, then like SEVEN years later with some of the most godawful stats you'd ever seen the Browns somehow got the Chicago Bears to give them a first round pick for Phipps. That's some stellar QB scouting going on then. 

@dutch-oven said:

That was a pretty good comparison.

But at worst, he's a definite upgrade over DTR. 

Hard to believe Pickett was better than Bradshaw was in the early going of his career.  Look at that TD:INT ratio in particular 6:24, 13:22, 12:12, 10:15, 7:8.  The completion percentages of 38.1, 54.4, 47.7, 49.4, 45.3.  Sometimes it takes a minute or two...  Pittsburgh hasn't exactly been lighting it up with anyone else throwing the ball lately either...

NAME	SEASON	TM	GP	CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	TD	INT	RTG	TD%	INT%	SCK	SCKY
1		Terry Bradshaw	1970	PIT	13	83	218	38.1	1,410	6.5	108.5	6	24	30.4	2.8	11.0	25	242
2		Terry Bradshaw	1971	PIT	14	203	373	54.4	2,259	6.1	161.4	13	22	59.7	3.5	5.9	33	287
3		Terry Bradshaw	1972	PIT	14	147	308	47.7	1,887	6.1	134.8	12	12	64.1	3.9	3.9	29	237
4		Terry Bradshaw	1973	PIT	10	89	180	49.4	1,183	6.6	118.3	10	15	54.5	5.6	8.3	24	186
5		Terry Bradshaw	1974	PIT	8	67	148	45.3	785	5.3	98.1	7	8	55.2	4.7	5.4	10	104

And here's the other half of our fart smell comparison - Pickett's 2022 & 2023 seasons...

@nickers said:

Yeah , My old man was like that.. Can't tell you how many times he'd find old TV's on the side of the road and make them like brand new.. Fix a stereo.. a car.. whatever... My Pop was a JOAT's/ MON! A guy who one minute ran a speak easy.. To the next minute guarding Americas first space satellite overnight.. To writing some of the worlds first hand written programs for Lithograph/Mulitigraph in the 60's... Amazing someone could live a life... Do all of that...And all that's left is someone remembering it years later in a private thought...

Yep, the cycle of life.  Dust to dust as the saying goes.

I had to move my brother up here from Florida several weeks ago. As with all of us, age is catching up and health issues were cropping up so it was best for him to move up this way where he has some family.  The point in this is my mother-in law passed last Feb at 97, so now we have no real reason to head down to Florida several times a year to visit.  My parents retired to the Tampa area, her parents to the Sarasota area, 60 or so miles apart. It made visits easy.

My Dad passed in 95, Mom in 97.  Since then I have made it a point to visit their burial wall at least once a year, place some new artificial flowers, and just sit and reflect. I am afraid this last visit a couple of weeks ago might be the last.  It may not be, but without a real reason to go, I am afraid it will be just a cold stone in some Cemetary in Largo, Florida.  It was pretty emotional for me.

It is what it is.  Very few of us humans make a mark deep enough to remain in the history books.  I suppose as long as my siblings and I are alive, they remain alive.  That will have to do, and in the end, that is good enough.

@sdbacker80 said:

This is Certainly not a strike gold option. If the starter goes down you have Pickett over a guy like DTR.  We’ve moved from the absolute worst backup in the league to a serviceable backup.  One subtle improvement for a future special teams player (5th round) out of the league in three years. 

I agree.  Just like with some QBs sometimes a 5th rounder pans out, but most of the time they are a special teamer.  Even if not, at the least we know that Pickett brings immediate value as a good back-up QB. A valuable position. In the here and now, I'll take that over a late 5th round pick we got from the Lions.

@texasag1969 said:

My vet neighbor next door has a garage so full of tools that there is no room for his car or truck. I'm now up to about 3 interior small drawers, each of which has a few tools and then lots of strange parts that I have no idea what for. My father was the top international trouble shooter for Mobil oil with his degree in mechanical engineering. His son (me) once score 1/2 of one percentile on mechanical interest on the Kuder Preference Test. And mechanical ability I think lags that a bit. Driving a nail without blackening a thumb is a major accomplishment. ?

Yeah , My old man was like that.. Can't tell you how many times he'd find old TV's on the side of the road and make them like brand new.. Fix a stereo.. a car.. whatever... My Pop was a JOAT's/ MON! A guy who one minute ran a speak easy.. To the next minute guarding Americas first space satellite overnight.. To writing some of the worlds first hand written programs for Lithograph/Mulitigraph in the 60's... Amazing someone could live a life... Do all of that...And all that's left is someone remembering it years later in a private thought... And as weird as this sounds... Like how many years do I have left to invest my fandom of it by way of their terrible mishandling...

@nickers said:

A Man has to know his own limitations I suppose.. Unless you are Tool Time Tim!

My vet neighbor next door has a garage so full of tools that there is no room for his car or truck. I'm now up to about 3 interior small drawers, each of which has a few tools and then lots of strange parts that I have no idea what for. My father was the top international trouble shooter for Mobil oil with his degree in mechanical engineering. His son (me) once score 1/2 of one percentile on mechanical interest on the Kuder Preference Test. And mechanical ability I think lags that a bit. Driving a nail without blackening a thumb is a major accomplishment. ?

@texasag1969 said:

I would find some way of missing somehow and catching a finger with the sharp side of a piece of flint. Think I'll stick to matches. LOL!

A Man has to know his own limitations I suppose.. Unless you are Tool Time Tim!

@nickers said:

I would love to try my hand at harvesting flint and trying the striker and flint method and try my hand at making char to up my skill set.

I would find some way of missing somehow and catching a finger with the sharp side of a piece of flint. Think I'll stick to matches. LOL!

@calfoxwc said:

I love it - it's an art form  - I practice out in our woods, in the rain at times. All sorts of tricks.

    Pickett might be a pleasant surprise - who knows.

I would love to try my hand at harvesting flint and trying the striker and flint method and try my hand at making char to up my skill set.

@nickers said:

If it takes more than 3 strikes with a ferro cerrium rod your technique is all wrong or the weather is real damp... I always get it on the first attempt most times.. it's my fave method of fire starting.. Bic's are instant gratification.. But I love the art of processing wood to make a fire.. It is beautifully organic..

I love it - it's an art form  - I practice out in our woods, in the rain at times. All sorts of tricks.

    Pickett might be a pleasant surprise - who knows.

@ballpeen said:

Your point is valid.

I don't think Pickett is going to be the next Steve Young, nor do I think you are saying that, but sure, it could happen.  Lot's of guys had to find their footing.....Moon, Theisman, Flutie, they had to play in Canada for several seasons.

I liked to camp back in the day.  I liked to winter camp.  If any of you have used some sort of flint or ferro rod to start a fire, sometimes you get the spark to take in a stroke or three.  Other times, it was going to be a long, cold, dark night.

Good examples!   And look at a guy like Warner needing Arena Football and NFL Europe.  In Arena Football he practiced, learned and developed via quicker progression reads and releases.  It took some rewiring of previous habits that got him cut and in Green Bay.  Ultimately, what we're talking about with all these guys are those opportunities to get better better/more specific training for the NFL passing game by extending experience after college.  

Now that guys in college can use the transfer portal to get a 5th year of starting/playing QB like Bo Nix, Dillon Gabriel, Shedeur Sanders, Cam Ward, Jayden Daniels - this not only gets them additional experience but it also enables them to learn different passing game concepts and strategies. Before the portal - Flacco left Pitt after only appearing in 4 games in 2 years for mop up duty only. The next 4 years he did his magic at Delaware as a QB in the Delaware Wing T (which made him great at play action fakes in all those Waggle Passes duplicating a QB bootleg). 

This isn't just good for QBs but young assistant coaches should also try to expose themselves to more than 1 system in college or the NFL.  Even though Stefanski has 2 Coach of the Year honors - I wonder if he previously coached for NFL more teams/systems than just the Vikings if he'd have better ability to adapt to different types of QBs coming from all different systems.  Without looking it up, I don't know what young QB out of the draft he's ever developed into a long time keeper before or during Cleveland.  I remembered Minnesota needing to bring in Gary Kubiak as a Offensive Consultant 1 year when Stefanski was the OC and the offense went through a period where everything went stale.  Kubiak arrived and helped Stefanski learn some solutions to the difficulties he was finding.  Even Belichick got to learn stuff under Ted Marchibroda before Parcells hired him in NY. 

Long story short, the more experience gained - the better the chance a QB or Coach has learned more than just 1 specific system.  If a Coach heading up an offense doesn't have this - he could be railroading a young QB that might otherwise perform better under a different Coach. Square peg - round hole isn't always the QB's fault IMO.  The same year Joe Flacco worked out well here (PJ Walker, Jeff Driskel and DTR struggled). Flacco had a wealth of experience and exposure to running different offenses. Maybe even more than Stefanski.  Future QB Coach or Coordinator possibly???

@ballpeen said:

Your point is valid.

I don't think Pickett is going to be the next Steve Young, nor do I think you are saying that, but sure, it could happen.  Lot's of guys had to find their footing.....Moon, Theisman, Flutie, they had to play in Canada for several seasons.

I liked to camp back in the day.  I liked to winter camp.  If any of you have used some sort of flint or ferro rod to start a fire, sometimes you get the spark to take in a stroke or three.  Other times, it was going to be a long, cold, dark night.

If it takes more than 3 strikes with a ferro cerrium rod your technique is all wrong or the weather is real damp... I always get it on the first attempt most times.. it's my fave method of fire starting.. Bic's are instant gratification.. But I love the art of processing wood to make a fire.. It is beautifully organic..

@flugel said:

For example, here's the 1st 2 NFL seasons for a guy who changed teams and ended up in the HOF because of it.  I think he said that somewhere in his autobiography it mentions that the local media and countless critics in Tampa actually started convincing him that his hands were too small to succeed in the NFL. My take?  THAT, or it was too tough for all those critics to give their franchise any/all of the credit for in lieu of all their premature conclusions about Steve Young and Doug Williams.

GAME	SEASON	TM	GP	CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	TD	INT	RTG	TD%	INT%	SCK	SCKY
1		Steve Young	1985	TB	5	72	138	52.2	935	6.8	187.0	3	8	56.9	2.2	5.8	21	158
2		Steve Young	1986	TB	14	195	363	53.7	2,282	6.3	163.0	8	13	65.5	2.2	3.6	47	326
		Average			9.5	133.5	250.5	53.3	1608.5	6.4	169.3	5.5	10.5	63.1	2.2	4.2	34.0	242.0

The following may have changed in recent years but look what became possible for a guy that was once thought of like Pickett.  The difference here and now is Pickett isn't going to Bill Walsh and the SF organization.  

TOP FIVE ALL-TIME PASSERS

Your point is valid.

I don't think Pickett is going to be the next Steve Young, nor do I think you are saying that, but sure, it could happen.  Lot's of guys had to find their footing.....Moon, Theisman, Flutie, they had to play in Canada for several seasons.

I liked to camp back in the day.  I liked to winter camp.  If any of you have used some sort of flint or ferro rod to start a fire, sometimes you get the spark to take in a stroke or three.  Other times, it was going to be a long, cold, dark night.

@flugel said:

For example, here's the 1st 2 NFL seasons for a guy who changed teams and ended up in the HOF because of it.  I think he said that somewhere in his autobiography it mentions that the local media and countless critics in Tampa actually started convincing him that his hands were too small to succeed in the NFL. My take?  THAT, or it was too tough for all those critics to give their franchise any/all of the credit for in lieu of all their premature conclusions about Steve Young and Doug Williams.

GAME	SEASON	TM	GP	CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	TD	INT	RTG	TD%	INT%	SCK	SCKY
1		Steve Young	1985	TB	5	72	138	52.2	935	6.8	187.0	3	8	56.9	2.2	5.8	21	158
2		Steve Young	1986	TB	14	195	363	53.7	2,282	6.3	163.0	8	13	65.5	2.2	3.6	47	326
		Average			9.5	133.5	250.5	53.3	1608.5	6.4	169.3	5.5	10.5	63.1	2.2	4.2	34.0	242.0

The following may have changed in recent years but look what became possible for a guy that was once thought of like Pickett.  The difference here and now is Pickett isn't going to Bill Walsh and the SF organization.  

TOP FIVE ALL-TIME PASSERS

Your point is valid.

I don't think Pickett is going to be the next Steve Young, nor do I think you are saying that, but sure, it could happen.  Lot's of guys had to find their footing.....Moon, Theisman, Flutie, they had to play in Canada for several seasons.

I liked to camp back in the day.  I liked to winter camp.  If any of you have used some sort of flint or ferro rod to start a fire, sometimes you get the spark to take in a stroke or three.  Other times, it was going to be a long, cold, dark night.

@orion said:

Charlie Fry?  

Do you still have your french fry costume ?

@sdbacker80 said:

Telling…what’s his closest comparison?

Cousins

Wilson

Sanders

Charlie Fry?  

Cousins

Wilson

Sanders

@ballpeen said:

I agree that there is a very good chance that is how it will work out, but as I said, sometimes a new team, coach and teammates make a big difference in a player trajectory. I guess we will find out soon enough.

For example, here's the 1st 2 NFL seasons for a guy who changed teams and ended up in the HOF because of it.  I think he said that somewhere in his autobiography it mentions that the local media and countless critics in Tampa actually started convincing him that his hands were too small to succeed in the NFL. My take?  THAT, or it was too tough for all those critics to give their franchise any/all of the credit for in lieu of all their premature conclusions about Steve Young and Doug Williams.

GAME	SEASON	TM	GP	CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	TD	INT	RTG	TD%	INT%	SCK	SCKY
1		Steve Young	1985	TB	5	72	138	52.2	935	6.8	187.0	3	8	56.9	2.2	5.8	21	158
2		Steve Young	1986	TB	14	195	363	53.7	2,282	6.3	163.0	8	13	65.5	2.2	3.6	47	326
		Average			9.5	133.5	250.5	53.3	1608.5	6.4	169.3	5.5	10.5	63.1	2.2	4.2	34.0	242.0

The following may have changed in recent years but look what became possible for a guy that was once thought of like Pickett.  The difference here and now is Pickett isn't going to Bill Walsh and the SF organization.  

TOP FIVE ALL-TIME PASSERS

@orion said:

Geno Smith is another pretty good example.  Having said that, I think that we're going to see that Sam Darnold & Kenny Picket are still Sam Darnold & Kenny Picket

I agree that there is a very good chance that is how it will work out, but as I said, sometimes a new team, coach and teammates make a big difference in a player trajectory. I guess we will find out soon enough.

@ballpeen said:

Just to add on a previous post of mine about Pickett....I wouldn't just summarily rule out Pickett as a starter, at least not just yet.  Sometimes it takes a QB 4-5 years to find his NFL mojo.  Some guys need the right fit. Darnold as an example wasn't looking very good a few years ago.

Unless the name is Watson, Stefanski's O seems pretty QB friendly for a Cousins type QB, which I think Pickett is. You never know, he might just find his footing and become a pretty good starting QB in this O.

I doubt it but why not kick the tires? He has roughly 2 years of starting experience.

Looks like they're done with Winston, not sure I agree with that. He's a turnover machine but seems like a good locker room guy, something this team seems to need. I'd rather have Winston than Cousins.

@ballpeen said:

Just to add on a previous post of mine about Pickett....I wouldn't just summarily rule out Pickett as a starter, at least not just yet.  Sometimes it takes a QB 4-5 years to find his NFL mojo.  Some guys need the right fit. Darnold as an example wasn't looking very good a few years ago.

Geno Smith is another pretty good example.  Having said that, I think that we're going to see that Sam Darnold & Kenny Picket are still Sam Darnold & Kenny Picket