@sez.ej said:

Mangini's draft picks during his 3 years in NY

1 Vernon Gholston LB Ohio State

1 30 Dustin Keller TE Purdue

4 113 Dwight Lowery CB San Jose State

5 162 Erik Ainge QB Tennessee

6 171 Marcus Henry WR Kansas

7 211 Nate Garner T Arkansas

2007 - New York Jets

Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 14 Darrelle Revis CB Pittsburgh

2 47 David Harris ILB Michigan

6 177 Jacob Bender T Nicholls State

7 235 Chansi Stuckey WR Clemson

2006 - New York Jets

Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia

1 29 Nick Mangold C Ohio State

2 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon

3 76 Anthony Schlegel LB Ohio State

3 97 Eric Smith DB Michigan State

4 103 Brad Smith WR Missouri

4 117 Leon Washington RB Florida State

5 150 Jason Pociask TE Wisconsin

6 189 Drew Coleman CB Texas Christian

7 220 Titus Adams DT Nebraska

Sorry but 3 games is not enough time to evaluate a draft class or call these mistakes. He had to keep a lot of crappy players just to make a roster or we would have had only 4 or 5 guys in training camp. This is bigger than just this season. Everyone is looking for a quick fix. Change the qb, change the coach, change the gm .... That is not the answer.. We do not have much talent on this team...that is not the fault of mangini and Kokonis.. In FOUR YEARS you can say that..but not yet.

Mangini drafted some excellent players in ny in the 3 years there.. I am not saying all his picks were dead on..no team does that...but look at the 3 drafts above while he was there..there are MORE than a few guys on the jets right now from each draft that contribute or start and a few are rising stars , he has some real solid late round DB picks also.. Our draft have not been nearly as good as the 3 years noted above.. . Give it time.. it's bigger than just this season.

Mangini cannot ruin an already ruined team he inherited. He can make it better given time.

I don't buy it. In New York there is a very good team of talent evaluators in Terry Bradway (long time scout and GM), Joey Clinkscales (long time respected scout, Parcells interviewed him for the GM job in Miami), and Mike Tannenbaum (GM who worked with Parcells, Belli, etc). Mangini has never held any sort of scouting position and had no input into drafting at New England, and his input in NY was limited. I feel you are going to be sadly disappointed if you believe Mangini is going to suddenly become some sort of draft and talent guru. Not going to happen. Not to mention, since Eric has left NY, insiders have stated that he was the driving force behind the drafting of Vernon Gholston who has shown nothing to date. The before mentioned team wanted to draft Jerod Mayo but Mangini didn't want to leave Gholston on the board for Belichick. In that case, Tannenbaum let his HC get what he wanted. Sour grapes? Maybe, but it goes right in line with Mangini's fanaticism with anything New England. The other pick attributed solely to Mangini was Anthony Schlegel; he thought he would be the next Teddy Bruschi, ugh... Not to mention that many of the big names above (Sanchez, Revis, Harris, Keller, Washington) were all delivered via trades orchestrated by Tannenbaum, not Mangini.

In my opinion you are giving Mangini way too much credit for the talent in NY. The coaching decisions made by this man directly lost him many games in NY, and his eye for talent is not what you think. For your sake I hope I'm wrong, but I've watched his career closely and am not impressed. He'll draft you a lot of choir boys who will never get in trouble, but will be average players, and he'll continually tell you how "it's a process"....

Good luck.

@sony-reed said:

Randy Lerner wants this franchise to be like the New England Patriots so much that he believes if he keeps hiring peolple that worked for Bill B. they will be like New England, Weiss, Crennel and Mangini all have flopped once they left New England.

Mangini allowed to pick his buddy as GM a terrible mistake....no difference than Butch Davis having full control

Trading out of the #5 pick to trade down 3 times to draft a center......Another DUMB MOVE

Drafting 2 wide receivers in rouns 2 and then attempting to make a starter out of a specials team guy Cribbs....Stuipid Move and wasted pick

Thats just the beginning, I could go on.

People forget to look at the damage he did in New York......same boring offense with no imagination

I can't believe a guy posted that Mangini is responsible for the Jets playing good this season

Eric Mangini is all about power and if continues to coach our Cleveland Browns he will destroy this franchise

Man I really disagree ...here is the evidence..

Mangini's draft picks during his 3 years in NY

1 Vernon Gholston LB Ohio State

1 30 Dustin Keller TE Purdue

4 113 Dwight Lowery CB San Jose State

5 162 Erik Ainge QB Tennessee

6 171 Marcus Henry WR Kansas

7 211 Nate Garner T Arkansas

2007 - New York Jets

Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 14 Darrelle Revis CB Pittsburgh

2 47 David Harris ILB Michigan

6 177 Jacob Bender T Nicholls State

7 235 Chansi Stuckey WR Clemson

2006 - New York Jets

Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia

1 29 Nick Mangold C Ohio State

2 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon

3 76 Anthony Schlegel LB Ohio State

3 97 Eric Smith DB Michigan State

4 103 Brad Smith WR Missouri

4 117 Leon Washington RB Florida State

5 150 Jason Pociask TE Wisconsin

6 189 Drew Coleman CB Texas Christian

7 220 Titus Adams DT Nebraska

Sorry but 3 games is not enough time to evaluate a draft class or call these mistakes. He had to keep a lot of crappy players just to make a roster or we would have had only 4 or 5 guys in training camp. This is bigger than just this season. Everyone is looking for a quick fix. Change the qb, change the coach, change the gm .... That is not the answer.. We do not have much talent on this team...that is not the fault of mangini and Kokonis.. In FOUR YEARS you can say that..but not yet.

Mangini drafted some excellent players in ny in the 3 years there.. I am not saying all his picks were dead on..no team does that...but look at the 3 drafts above while he was there..there are MORE than a few guys on the jets right now from each draft that contribute or start and a few are rising stars , he has some real solid late round DB picks also.. Our draft have not been nearly as good as the 3 years noted above.. . Give it time.. it's bigger than just this season.

Mangini cannot ruin an already ruined team he inherited. He can make it better given time.

@solon16 said:

HC Nick Skorich fired from the Eagles in 1961 then Blanton Collier's DC til he became HC 1971-74. Had a few winning seasons but faded due to retiring players like Leroy Kelly and Gary Collins. But drafted some of the next best up and comers like Doug Dieken , Greg Pruit and a 13th rounder Brian Sipe.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ.../09/29/mangini/

And of course here's a priceless quote about Mangini's decision to opt for the field goal down 27 with 10 minutes left to play

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/62243297.html

Anderson took over in the second half and threw a poor interception, then guided a drive that ended at the Ravens' 12-yard line.

Coach Eric Mangini chose to kick a field goal, down 27-0. Shades of the outcry when Romeo Crennel kicked a field goal in the opener a year ago against Dallas, down 28-7.

Mangini used this reasoning for the decision: There were 10 or 12 minutes left, and three touchdowns and three 2-point conversions ties the game.

He forgot to mention the part about monkeys flying in from Oz to carry away Ray Lewis.

@greythan said:

The guy's command of the game is rare. Exceedingly rare.

FK Qb coach....give him fkn dabolt's job!

@inspecta said:

However the sheen wore off quite a bit after that, and quickly.

I loathe the man now...

Here's a quick fact....in the browns history....we've hired only one other coach with prior HC experience....ONE!

The players will come around eventually. We're an awful team, but there is hope on the horizon even if we go 0-16.

@inspecta said:

Maybe this is good, I hated the Palmer hire. I hated the Davis hire. I liked the RAC hire (he won 10!) and I loved the Mangini hire. Maybe we're going on the right track. *hope hope hope hope hope*

FLIP THIS ROSTER MANGINI!!!!!

Reversal can be a bitch. You better hope the Browns continue to struggle, because if they don't as bad..................

Even now when you hear him in interviews he still has such a passion for the game that is infectious.

He would make a great QB coach and good mentor to these young guys.

If Bernie's ego would allow him to work as an assistant head coach, I'd hire him as the QB coach in a heartbeat.

The guy's command of the game is rare. Exceedingly rare.

@inspecta said:

However the sheen wore off quite a bit after that, and quickly.

I loathe the man now...

hate is a strong word, but I'm pretty much right there with you.

I liked the no-nonsense approach as it was a complete 180 from what we previously had. Discipline, respect, and commitment are always solid foundations for a football team. Still need to win to get everybody on board.

I trusted Mangini's pick in Daboll as OC. That's not working out so far. Is it Daboll's unimaginative playbook? Is it Mangini stomping on Daboll's neck? Who knows. But we have a serious problem playing football. And I'm standing on the gunwale ready to abandon ship (on this regime - not the Browns).

I'm pissed, but they've got a couple more weeks (bye-ish). *Edit*I'm not looking for 500 yds on O & a shutout on D, but I'd like to see effort.

@inspecta said:

True. But if you can't run your business, that you are in charge of, you will have to forgive my concern for his ability to successfully run a football team.

@inspecta said:

However the sheen wore off quite a bit after that, and quickly.

I loathe the man now...

Amen. I think cautiously optimistic was about as good as it got for me. It went downhill fast from there.

I was happy they hired Chris Palmer, I was happy they hired Policy and Clark, I was happy they hired Butch and his Bitch, I was very happy they hired Savage.

Csll me an idiot. I should be pissed at "they."

Ok? Happy now?

We are also talking about Bernie who has had trouble running his personal life and his business life.

I love Bernie, I love him calling the game, and he has a sharp football mind. But all of those things don't always equate to success outside of being a player.

@danamal said:

I have to disagree.

Last year was one of those injury seasons that happen and we were a mess because of it and the ever popular RAC/CHUD leadership,most of the players have remained the same and played with alot more heart for the jolly ole fat guy than they are displaying {healthy mind you}for the new guy.

No,this is about a coach with more hype than substance and was just a bad pick like so many who dislike Quinn.

Last year CLE's starters really weren't' ravaged by injuries.

The players are not mostly the same as last year. They have turned over something like 26 players from last year. You can just look at the starting O and D and see over half the players on each side of the ball have changed from last year to this year.

But Mangini is certainly looking bad at this point.

@danamal said:

Even now when you hear him in interviews he still has such a passion for the game that is infectious.

He would make a great QB coach and good mentor to these young guys.

He should be GM. If not that, he NEEDS to take Deiken's job on the radio. Since when has "WOW"! or "he got em" been considered colour commentary? Thanks for the dead air Deiken. That's right, I turned this thread into a "bash Deiken" thread. That's how mad I am right now!

Here's to Bernie Kosar Field in Cleveland Ohio 2010!!!

@danamal said:

Even now when you hear him in interviews he still has such a passion for the game that is infectious.

He would make a great QB coach and good mentor to these young guys.

Bernie is awesome but lerner is afraid of him for some reason...