@tiamat63 said:

You waste too much time in this.  I have nothing against the disability community, but people shouldn't argue with autistic folks. 

I missed some classic stuff! Just when I thought we were all moved in - out goes the new internet services I'm sentenced to.  At least there's finally things to talk about in here. Thanks for your Training Camp summaries!

@warrendawg said:

No way. That goes to the Watson deal! That was the worst move of all time, for any sport. 

Domino effect.   Keep Shanahan on the coaching staff and dismiss Pettine. Let Shanny run his personnel and the likely hood you ever see Watson is minimal, at best. 

@tiamat63 said:

I maintain the greatest sin of any Front Office and Ownership in the last 25 years was choosing Pettine and Manziel over Shanahan and Hoyer. 

No way. That goes to the Watson deal! That was the worst move of all time, for any sport. 

@bob806 said:

True, they're definitely "more stable," especially in the FO. 

For how much longer, we don't know. I'm not rooting for failure but they need to analyze their analytics?

Great point. This guy slams analytics - and the Browns use it the most, of the 22 teams in the survey. lol I guess that explains the Browns bad decisions....

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/super-bowl-champion-mark-schlereth-rails-against-nfls-reliance-analytics-just-bunch-fluff

"The survey received 22 responses. The findings named the Cleveland Browns as the No. 1 NFL franchise to incorporate analytics most frequently when it comes to making decisions on football-related matters."

@bob806 said:

True, they're definitely "more stable," especially in the FO. 

For how much longer, we don't know. I'm not rooting for failure but they need to analyze their analytics?

They done a lot of anal-izing over the years.?️

@reality said:

Browns aren't where they want to be or need to be.  But they actually have come a long way from where they were.

True, they're definitely "more stable," especially in the FO. 

For how much longer, we don't know. I'm not rooting for failure but they need to analyze their analytics?

@orion said:

Ray Farmer was the main reason he left.  The dope was trying to tell them who to play and what plays to call.  -  I don't draft WR's in the 1st round.  They don't handle the ball enough.  -  

Farmer (also got in trouble for texting the sidelines from the suite), Manziel draft, playing him, Pettite, and a whole bunch more.  He saw the poop show, called it the poop show it was, and for that was allowed out of his contract. 

Browns aren't where they want to be or need to be.  But they actually have come a long way from where they were.

@tiamat63 said:

You waste too much time in this.  I have nothing against the disability community, but people shouldn't argue with autistic folks. 

Cal reminds me of the old saying:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." 

@reality said:

Kyle left CLE in 2014

Ray Farmer was the main reason he left.  The dope was trying to tell them who to play and what plays to call.  -  I don't draft WR's in the 1st round.  They don't handle the ball enough.  -  

@orion said:

Actually, he wasn't run out of town.  He told the organization, You guys are effed up.  I'm not coaching here any more so let me out of my contract!  That's how bad things can get in Cleveland with Haslam & DePodesta.  Right now I'm not in favor of tossing out what we have in order to put those two back on the clock.  

DePodesta joined thr Browns in Jan of 2016.  Kyle left CLE in 2014

@bob806 said:

Another "what-if" would be Kitchens over Greg Williams. 

Williams had them playing penalty-free & sound football, I always wondered why he wasn't really considered. Some said that Williams' approach could burn players out, I guess we will never know.

 Coach Williams is a good defensive mind. 

Coach Schwartz is a good defensive mind. 

Coach Shurmur is a good offensive mind. 

 All 3 are subpar head coaches because they aren't great at dictating organizational structure, hiring proper coaches to facilitate positional development on both sides of the ball and are rigid in their week to week schemes. 

 Also, by no small coincidence, all 3 can be major assholes.  

 Head coaches are like project managers.  You need to be able to work with and relate to your people on some level while properly delegating the right amount of work and responsibility to the rest of your (qualified) staff. 

@calfoxwc said:

my bad, I should have said "lassie".......

I have a majestic, border collie like appeal. 

@calfoxwc said:

my bad, I should have said "lassie".......

Careful, you're infringing on patent and/or copy rights of a certain idol of yours now.?

@tiamat63 said:

Are we celebrating St Paddys or something, Irishman? 

my bad, I should have said "lassie".......

@tiamat63 said:

I maintain the greatest sin of any Front Office and Ownership in the last 25 years was choosing Pettine and Manziel over Shanahan and Hoyer. 

Another "what-if" would be Kitchens over Greg Williams. 

Williams had them playing penalty-free & sound football, I always wondered why he wasn't really considered. Some said that Williams' approach could burn players out, I guess we will never know.

@orion said:

Actually, he wasn't run out of town.  He told the organization, You guys are effed up.  I'm not coaching here any more so let me out of my contract!  That's how bad things can get in Cleveland with Haslam & DePodesta.  Right now I'm not in favor of tossing out what we have in order to put those two back on the clock.  

Yeah maybe my memory isn't great on this. I thought he did the famous power point presentation after the Pettine staff was canned.

He's a brilliant offensive mind, but maybe not a "complete" coach. 

@orion said:

Actually, he wasn't run out of town.  He told the organization, You guys are effed up.  I'm not coaching here any more so let me out of my contract!  That's how bad things can get in Cleveland with Haslam & DePodesta.  Right now I'm not in favor of tossing out what we have in order to put those two back on the clock.  

I maintain the greatest sin of any Front Office and Ownership in the last 25 years was choosing Pettine and Manziel over Shanahan and Hoyer. 

@bob806 said:

Kyle Shanahan.......I wish he didn't get run out of town by Ray Farmer, bad move by Cle.

Actually, he wasn't run out of town.  He told the organization, You guys are effed up.  I'm not coaching here any more so let me out of my contract!  That's how bad things can get in Cleveland with Haslam & DePodesta.  Right now I'm not in favor of tossing out what we have in order to put those two back on the clock.  

@tiamat63 said:

You waste too much time in this.  I have nothing against the disability community, but people shouldn't argue with autistic folks. 

Probably, I just think all the losing has killed some brain cells in our fan base.

@calfoxwc said:

laddie? 

Are we celebrating St Paddys or something, Irishman? 

@tiamat63 said:

You waste too much time in this.  I have nothing against the disability community, but people shouldn't argue with autistic folks. 

you still mad that you proved yourself to be a fake arrogant NFL expert, laddie? Not my fault you called Mayfield garbage and he's a huge star down in Tampa Bay, making you embarrassed , while demanding no one talk about him anymore. lol

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/news/ryan-clark-backs-baker-mayfield-nfls-most-overlooked-quarterback/c7f56e2d55a349fe9305b58f

Former NFL safety and ESPN analyst Ryan Clark has declared Baker Mayfield as "a top 10 quarterback." Clark offered this strong endorsement while highlighting the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' potential heading into the 2025 season.

@bob806 said:

Fair enough, let's cherry pick this. No need to compare Stefanski to Reid, Tomlin, or Pete Carroll, as one could argue they're elite (well, Carroll screwed up a Super Bowl). 

Stefanski took a team to the playoffs using 5 QBs, that's impressive. I doubt anyone else on this list could do that.

• Most fans in Buffalo want McDermott gone, while forgetting that before he arrived, they had a 17 year playoff drought. 
• Kyle Shanahan gets a lot of love, yet the 49ers are only good every other year, and he got pass-happy with a 28-3 Super Bowl lead. I wish he didn't get run out of town by Ray Farmer, bad move by Cle.
• Jim Harbaugh-kind of an enigma but he does motivate his teams. The scUM cheating scandal is something that he will never shake.
• Vrabel- let's see what he does in New England. His time in Tennessee was pretty good, even though his QBs weren't so hot and they gave away AJ Brown.
• Taylor in Cincy, I'd argue he's done way less than Stefanski with a lot more firepower. Burrow bails him out.
• Bowles- not as bad as his record looks. His time with the Jets skews his record. 
• LaFleur- solid coach, although the Pack gets a lot of "help" like the current KC Chiefs.
• Sirianni, Payton, & Campbell are solid. McVay, elite IMHO. Dan Quinn, well I don't know, he's ok.

As you can see, I'm fine with Stefanski. 

You waste too much time in this.  I have nothing against the disability community, but people shouldn't argue with autistic folks. 

@flugel said:

 Truth of the matter is - the Browns have consistently done far worse than Stefanski at HC.  In a perfect world - you only fire a HC if you're capable of upgrading him with whom you hire to replace him.  Outside of 1 FO guy convincing him to hire Stefanski - has Jimmy been good at hiring upgrades after exercising his trigger finger?  Not really man!

Bingo.

Unless Haslam changes his chain-of-command structure, it's highly unlikely he'd ever woo in a "big name" coach.

Also, a word of caution- the last "big name" the Browns hired was Mike Holmgren and we know how that worked out. I know it wasn't a Haslam hire, but still...and me being petty, I truly hope that the NFL HOF keeps Holmgren out after his debacle here, it's reason enough IMHO.

@bob806 said:

Fair enough, let's cherry pick this. No need to compare Stefanski to Reid, Tomlin, or Pete Carroll, as one could argue they're elite (well, Carroll screwed up a Super Bowl). 

Stefanski took a team to the playoffs using 5 QBs, that's impressive. I doubt anyone else on this list could do that.

• Most fans in Buffalo want McDermott gone, while forgetting that before he arrived, they had a 17 year playoff drought. 
• Kyle Shanahan gets a lot of love, yet the 49ers are only good every other year, and he got pass-happy with a 28-3 Super Bowl lead. I wish he didn't get run out of town by Ray Farmer, bad move by Cle.
• Jim Harbaugh-kind of an enigma but he does motivate his teams. The scUM cheating scandal is something that he will never shake.
• Vrabel- let's see what he does in New England. His time in Tennessee was pretty good, even though his QBs weren't so hot and they gave away AJ Brown.
• Taylor in Cincy, I'd argue he's done way less than Stefanski with a lot more firepower. Burrow bails him out.
• Bowles- not as bad as his record looks. His time with the Jets skews his record. 
• LaFleur- solid coach, although the Pack gets a lot of "help" like the current KC Chiefs.
• Sirianni, Payton, & Campbell are solid. McVay, elite IMHO. Dan Quinn, well I don't know, he's ok.

As you can see, I'm fine with Stefanski. 

The Browns have had TWO 11-5 seasons and one of those was Stefanski's ROOKIE year as HC.  At the end of the season, they won a playoff game AT PITTSBURGH (although Haters needing to hate will caution you Stefanski missed that game with COVID).  

I agree Stefanski is far from perfect given Jimmy's world that demands a lot of overcoming by any and all scapegoats that signed up for such accountability.  Truth of the matter is - the Browns have consistently done far worse than Stefanski at HC.  In a perfect world - you only fire a HC if you're capable of upgrading him with whom you hire to replace him.  Outside of 1 FO guy convincing him to hire Stefanski - has Jimmy been good at hiring upgrades after exercising his trigger finger?  Not really man!