@mopaji said:

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

The guy has no clue what he's doing.

Tannenbaum... I have a great friend who is a jets fan....fact

Leon Washington

Dustin Keller

Chansi Stuckey

Darrelle Revis

Nick Mangold

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Cris Jenkins

The guy has no clue what he's doing.

@lemosley01 said:

Unfortunately, he got lucky and literally fell into a 10-5 season and we got stuck with him for another year. Ughhh.

If Mangini was a rookie coach and had mishandled this QB situation, I would be a lot more forgiving. But he isn't, and he's making mistakes he should know better than to make. Add to that the team looks disorganized and the hints of locker room drama, and we've got the makings of something even worse than last season.

Saying it will get worse before it gets better is a copout. It's EASY to get worse, and then easy to 'improve' from there, but 'improve' doesn't mean go from winning 3 games to 4.

Those coaches that have gotten 5 years have earned them. They didn't have 4 years of absolute SUCK then spontaneously turn it around. Their teams got progressively and NOTICEABLY better, and they got into the playoffs or near them.

I think we'll know where this is headed by game 12 of this season.

I can agree with that. I am just really sick of the coaching carousel because it is 100% guaranteed not to work. I want to see a HC get a decent amount of time to turn this around. Good or bad, let the guy at least try and build something.

@mopaji said:

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

You'll know in two years what your roster will be but you won't know if your heading in the right direction for at least 3

QB developement doesn't take 5 years it should take closer to 2 or 2-1/2 and I am for giving either QB at least an entire season in this system. Even Brady and I hate his game. I wanted him in all year so we could get a good look at his progression so I'm against that move. But flipping a team and creating an entirely new culture does take 5 years. This isn't a PS3 game you can't just sim the season and go make a bowl of cereal until your roster is developed and ready. We are slaves to an actual calender and real money here and so it does take a little time and we will have to encounter all of the bumps that come with it.

Man, you are much more hopeful and forgiving than I am. I think about midway through season 2 you can see if things are headed in the right direction. about midway thorugh RACs second season I knew he wasn't going to be 'it'. The team just wasn't getting any better, players weren't playing hard, and the coach was absolutely cluless. When he sat at the interview table and said 'I don't know why' I KNEW he was doomed. When Marty got fired, I wanted him in the worst way.

Unfortunately, he got lucky and literally fell into a 10-5 season and we got stuck with him for another year. Ughhh.

If Mangini was a rookie coach and had mishandled this QB situation, I would be a lot more forgiving. But he isn't, and he's making mistakes he should know better than to make. Add to that the team looks disorganized and the hints of locker room drama, and we've got the makings of something even worse than last season.

Saying it will get worse before it gets better is a copout. It's EASY to get worse, and then easy to 'improve' from there, but 'improve' doesn't mean go from winning 3 games to 4.

Those coaches that have gotten 5 years have earned them. They didn't have 4 years of absolute SUCK then spontaneously turn it around. Their teams got progressively and NOTICEABLY better, and they got into the playoffs or near them.

I think we'll know where this is headed by game 12 of this season.

@razor1414 said:

I don't care about the a-hole thing or the napolean thing too much....Teams are built by good evaluators....this guy seems like he got all the wrong guys from the Jets defense....lol

And this draft...3 second rounders sitting the bench? Poteat? hood? Barton? Bowens? Ratliff? Coleman and Mosely i like....elam good against the run...but he's a saftey for pete's sake....The whole Qb evaluation..... I don't trust this guys ability to evaluate....Pray I'm wrong!

@dabrowns41 said:

I agreed when the hire is made that he bringing discipline would be a great thing, but he's taking it too far.

He needs to earn the respect of his players if he wants them to play football.

100 % agree....I gave him the benefit of the doubt....for 6 months....even after that draft day debacle....turns out he only inspires disdain!

As a Jet fan, it's strange not being the team with the worst coach. Here are 2 worse hires than the Mangini hire.

Rich Kotite - We fired Pete Carrol after he dropped the last couple of games, starting with the fake-spike game, knocking us out of the playoffs as the 6-5 Jets went to 6-10. Citing the late season flop as the reason, Leon Hess hired Rich Kotite, who that same season coached the 7-2 Eagles to a 7-9 record.

Herm Edwards - You had to have lived it. There will never, ever, ever, be a worse coach than this joke / imbecile. He was so bad, that Mangini really looked like a genius in year one.

Herm Edwards - granted his KC hire was cronyism, but there wasn't an educated Jet fan that would not have bet their firstborn that Herm would take the record breaking KC offense and destroy it by season 2, making "rebuilding" excuses in the process. Getting Leon in return for him has lightened our pain a bit.

Hey Brown fans - good luck this year climbing out of this one!

Ummm....because those that did WON! lol

""""I'm saying he needs 5 years... That doesn't go for just Mangini that would apply to anybody who took this job."""""""

And i think that's BS!

"""2nd owner and 4th coach. You cannot tell me that is a recipe for success,,,, look at the talent on those teams compared to ours."""' I've answered that

Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison did in this point of their careers..........look at the QB's they had....

after 5 years if the team sucks, you fire him...NO! That's what the Browns have done...if this guy doesn't Evaluate, Motivate and inspire his team....CAN HIM. Because this is the guy Drafting for our future....If he can't evaluate...Please don't let him draft....this is why 10 years out and the most horrific drafting in the league, we are where we are....Plain and simple. If davis hit on his draft picks or savage/ hit....Davis would probably still be here and so would Rac.

"But at least we will have something established to build off of then."

That don't work either cause new regime comes in and....Purges team and gets guys They want... ( WE NEED TO DRAFT 1000% better to be a competitive team...and we have sucked ass at it for a decade....and with this past years " evaluation" I'm scarred as shit this is the "team" thats gonna continue drafting for us!!! NO!

@solon16 said:

5 years? No Chance....Here's how the "five year" thing has worked for every Coach the Browns have had since 99'.....Palmer....start franchise, get the players HE wants....lose, Get fired......Davis....Purge team,get the players HE wanted...go to playoffs, purge all the starting Lb's linebackers, Lose, Get fired....RAC/Savage....Purge team, Get the players They Wanted, lose, Get fired.....Mangini.....Same Ol Same Ol'......

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL!!!

We need the right team at the top , who can Evaluate, Motivate, Innovate and Inspire! Evaluate being first and foremost....with this QB thing, The three SECOND round draft picks sitting the bench on a perenial 4-12 team, the guys he's brought from the Jets.....Make me Question his evaluation skills. I don't want another year of draft picks Picked by a "team" of questionable evaluators...we are in this position today because of our INSANELY bad Draft picks in the last ten years....NO ONE has missed more often and more glaringly than the Browns...I've done the homework.....We are in this position because of the draft picks we've Bombed on AND the "Purges" that have taken place....BY BAD evaluators.

Miami, SF, Atl, Totally overhauled and now winning in year 2.... Baltimore 6-10 before Flacco.....Denver 3-0 but they face real teams in the next three weeks so we'll see. The five year plan is for fkn losers and utterly Bullshit!

I guess I kinda agree with you 5 years is a while. But you also said that nobody has ever gotten 5 years here so how do you know it doesn't work? Because the other way certainly hasn't. And it worked for Jeff Fischer and Bill Cowher. But I'm not saying he will get 5 years I'm saying he needs 5 years. That doesn't go for just Mangini that would apply to anybody who took this job. As you said above, this two year thing has never worked for us. This organization doesn't have decades invested in a team or a philosophy. Don't forget, this Browns orginization is only 10 years old. And we're already on our 2nd owner and 4th coach. You cannot tell me that is a recipe for success. I don't care what other teams have done they are not us. I'm looking at the Browns. That's like saying Braylon should be breaking records by now because Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison did in this point of their careers. And jeez, look at the talent on those teams compared to ours. They have that talent because those organizations have been following a plan for some time now. The Browns have switched visions every two years. You cannot build a team like that and you said it yourself. So why really, are you disagreeing with me? You basically said everything I did. I think I also said somewhere that after 5 years if the team sucks, you fire him. But at least we will have something established to build off of then. You cannot take a pop-warner team and turn them into a competitive NFL team in two years.

5 years? No Chance....Here's how the "five year" thing has worked for every Coach the Browns have had since 99'.....Palmer....start franchise, get the players HE wants....lose, Get fired......Davis....Purge team,get the players HE wanted...go to playoffs, purge all the starting Lb's linebackers, Lose, Get fired....RAC/Savage....Purge team, Get the players They Wanted, lose, Get fired.....Mangini.....Same Ol Same Ol'......

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL!!!

We need the right team at the top , who can Evaluate, Motivate, Innovate and Inspire! Evaluate being first and foremost....with this QB thing, The three SECOND round draft picks sitting the bench on a perenial 4-12 team, the guys he's brought from the Jets.....Make me Question his evaluation skills. I don't want another year of draft picks Picked by a "team" of questionable evaluators...we are in this position today because of our INSANELY bad Draft picks in the last ten years....NO ONE has missed more often and more glaringly than the Browns...I've done the homework.....We are in this position because of the draft picks we've Bombed on AND the "Purges" that have taken place....BY BAD evaluators.

Miami, SF, Atl, Totally overhauled and now winning in year 2.... Baltimore 6-10 before Flacco.....Denver 3-0 but they face real teams in the next three weeks so we'll see. The five year plan is for fkn losers and utterly Bullshit!

I agreed when the hire is made that he bringing discipline would be a great thing, but he's taking it too far.

He needs to earn the respect of his players if he wants them to play football.

@lemosley01 said:

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

I don't know what the answer is anymore. And while I'm sure Cam is a great OC and needed to be fired, I do known the Dolphins are 0-3 and without a franchise QB. Henne may develop but who knows. But I like their 0-3 more than how ww got to our 0-3. We've been blown the fook out and that is a direct reflection on coaching. Whatever Mangini is doing he needs to change it.

@lemosley01 said:

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

You'll know in two years what your roster will be but you won't know if your heading in the right direction for at least 3

QB developement doesn't take 5 years it should take closer to 2 or 2-1/2 and I am for giving either QB at least an entire season in this system. Even Brady and I hate his game. I wanted him in all year so we could get a good look at his progression so I'm against that move. But flipping a team and creating an entirely new culture does take 5 years. This isn't a PS3 game you can't just sim the season and go make a bowl of cereal until your roster is developed and ready. We are slaves to an actual calender and real money here and so it does take a little time and we will have to encounter all of the bumps that come with it.

@mopaji said:

Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey

Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins

49ers- we'll see

Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie

Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.

5 years is ridiculous. You'll know in TWO if the coach you have is worth continuing with or not.

If this teams looks at the end of the season like it does now, Mangini is not it. The Dolphins dumped Cameron after 1 season. Do you think they made the wrong decision?

Continuing with a mistake is a bigger mistake than cutting bait. All it means is you are that much further away from the turnaround.

5 years is xxxxing ridiculous. I suppose you're all for giving Anderson 5 years, too?

@jadbf said:

speaking of gay love fest threads: doesn't brady look super cute with his hair in his eyes?

@lemosley01 said:

The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.

I'm not saying hiring a new coach doesn't work, I'm saying in OUR situation we cannot afford to swap staffs every two years. That "identity" we are all looking for leaves before it ever gets established.

Saints - Brees, Colston, Bush, Moore, Henderson, Shockey

Falcons - Turner, Ryan, Jenkins

49ers- we'll see

Cardinals - Warner, Boldin, Fitz, now Beanie

Browns - DA/BQ, Lewis, Edwards...you get the point.

@yosemitejam said:

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

I am assuming you realize both of those teams got an expansion draft off of NFL rosters and as well as 2 picks in the 1st round of the draft. No expansion team has had either of those benefits since then.

@chip-banks said:

roger that chipper

@yosemitejam said:

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

I guarantee you that if Mangini or any other coach in the NFL could pick between taking over the Browns roster, the dearth of draft picks we had, and our cap situation that they would take an expansion draft, a fresh start under the salary cap to sign free agents, and a fully-stocked draft with sandwich picks in a New York minute.

it's swallowed up every coach,every gm ,every player that's come in contact with it

You can blame that on Carmon Policy, Al Lerner or Dwight Clark they all had a hand in fcking this franchise up from the start

I can't stand Mangini,but firing him would only continue to add to the misery that this organization has become and rightfully

place us at the bottom BELOW the Detroits and Oaklands of the NFL

One thing we know from the Stealers is that stability leads to success

One thing we know from the Raiders,and the Lions is that constant turnover equals failure

As much as I dislike Mangini ,it's apparent to me that

A) While he lacks personality I don't believe he's an idiot (like Crennel)

B)The man is obsessive about his work,and won't stop until he finds the answer he's looking for

C) The pained look on his face on Sundays tell me he hates losing as much as we do

Unfortunately ,we're going to have to suffer while this man finishes the job Slo Lerner hired him to do,

that means its going to get worse before it gets better

1996 Carolina NFC West champion

1996 JAX advances to AFC Championship game

Allowing "seasons" for a coach and/or a pro team to "jell" or "develope" is rhetorical BS that fans use to comfort their misery while continuing to support their team......

Coaching technicians and player talent are ALWAYS AVAILABLE...

Teams need the knowledge to ID the talent AND an OWNER who is willing to SPEND to obtain the best available coaching/players....

Sadly the Browns have been woefully deficient in both these factors needed to field competetive teams year in and year out.......

Lerner is out of his league and I am afraid that he again has demonstrated this fact with the weak sister, mangooey hire..

We all know what must occur for the Browns to regain their lost glory..

Like when you see a QB after 3 games and think maybe he isn't a playmaker? I'm like that with coaches. We have Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan all sitting on the sideline.

I worry because everything Jets fans warned us about is kind of coming true.

@mopaji said:

I refuse to believe that Mangini is an idiot. It is far more likely that he knows WAAAAY more than any of us (except chip banks) and we should shut up and wait. This roster needs completely flipped and that is only the beginning. It's going to be really funny when he changes the uniforms. Firing a coach is not a quick fix and has yet to work throughout all remembered time. 5 year minimum through thick and thin, 5 year minimum.

Do you think RAC would have had a good season this year? When you look at RACs record, what looks like an anomaly and what looks normal.

The Saints, Falcons, 49ers, Cardinals, etc, etc, etc all disagree with you.