@dutch-oven said:

I still think people are getting fired after the season ends.

Losing to the Jets did not help in terms of longevity.  

I think Stef will probably be gone mostly because of Dillon Gabriel.  Apparently he's been tied to Gabriel since the winter.  Gabriel is his guy and he's going to go down with the Gabriel ship.  I've said in another thread that the season is at a critical point and that he should start Sanders as a last resort type of thing to try and save the season.  He really couldn't be faulted for doing that at this point in time (or even during the Bye week).  IMO, to save his own skin, he should've trotted out Sanders to show to the football world that he's not ready...or at least that he's not better than Gabriel right now.  BUT....he's not going to do that.  He'll bring out Sanders at a point when all is lost.  And then, if Sanders does fairly well, he won't get another HC interview.  Being loyal to Gabriel is setting himself up for failure.

@dutch-oven said:

The Browns are the first team in 75 years to have no turnovers, hold the opposing team to less than 175 yards and lose. 

I've lost count of the numbers of games I've seen where one team losses while severely outgaining the other.  The difference usually ends up with turnovers, field position and/or special teams play.  

In this case it was the latter for the Browns.    We were out Tressel-balled. 

@nickers said:

The Browns find more ways to lose that comes right out from another dimension.. 

They're REALLY GOOD at it!

@reality said:

The Jets D isn't actually "bad".  Middle of the league for total yards, top 10 in pass yards, bottom half of the league in rush yards allowed, and near the bottom of the league in PPG (partially impacted by field position deficits).  I am not trying to give a gold star to the CLE staff here.  But they scored 5pts more than their average,  against a meh D.  That's sadly better than they have done against some other lesser Ds (or lesser at the time when played).  

We do not really know what the outcome would have been without those special teams plays.  Though i personally feel pretty confident 20 points wins that game.  But Tom Brady aint walking in that door.  The problems on O go far beyond the Xs and Os 

The Browns are the first team in 75 years to have no turnovers, hold the opposing team to less than 175 yards and lose. 

@mddawg said:

Definitely outcoached, after the bye we couldn't score more than 20 points on this bad defense that traded away it's best two defensive players? Should've been a blow out.

The Jets D isn't actually "bad".  Middle of the league for total yards, top 10 in pass yards, bottom half of the league in rush yards allowed, and near the bottom of the league in PPG (partially impacted by field position deficits).  I am not trying to give a gold star to the CLE staff here.  But they scored 5pts more than their average,  against a meh D.  That's sadly better than they have done against some other lesser Ds (or lesser at the time when played).  

We do not really know what the outcome would have been without those special teams plays.  Though i personally feel pretty confident 20 points wins that game.  But Tom Brady aint walking in that door.  The problems on O go far beyond the Xs and Os 

@mddawg said:

Definitely outcoached, after the bye we couldn't score more than 20 points on this bad defense that traded away it's best two defensive players? Should've been a blow out.

We're approaching Hue level of play on offense here. Maybe even exceeding it in the wrong direction.

@reality said:

Like Dutch, not sure everyone is safe at year end.  Starting with Stef.

Not sure two STs TDs falls under "out coached".  But certainly at minimum on those two returns the Jets ST out executed 

Definitely outcoached, after the bye we couldn't score more than 20 points on this bad defense that traded away it's best two defensive players? Should've been a blow out.

@mddawg said:

Some accountability there, we get outcoached by a team trying to tank and everyone's safe here.

Like Dutch, not sure everyone is safe at year end.  Starting with Stef.

Not sure two STs TDs falls under "out coached".  But certainly at minimum on those two returns the Jets ST out executed 

@mddawg said:

Some accountability there, we get outcoached by a team trying to tank and everyone's safe here.

As of today, I can't argue with you on that. 

I still think people are getting fired after the season ends. I can't see them winning 6-8 games over the last two seasons and everyone coming back in 2026. I could be wrong. 

@dutch-oven said:

Apparently they have lead by 10 or more points in four of their road games this season… and lost all four games.

Some accountability there, we get outcoached by a team trying to tank and everyone's safe here.

@mddawg said:

Not surprised after despite all the Jaxson Dart hype they were still only 2-8.

Apparently they have lead by 10 or more points in four of their road games this season… and lost all four games.

@dutch-oven said:

Giants HC Brian Daboll has been fired.

Not surprised after despite all the Jaxson Dart hype they were still only 2-8.

@bbedward said:

We need to bendova for mendoza. At this point

I figure he'll be a Jet.  If they don't have the 1st overall selection...they'll get it with their #1 picks in trade.  But I want him and the 6'5 fast receiver to go along with him.  I'll make them room mates.  

@ibleedbrown said:

I’ve been pretty in to watching IU football the last couple years and Oregon was their biggest win this year. Illinois was ranked in the top 10 when they played IU but have fallen off since.

I didn’t get to watch the game against Penn but l listened to a bit on radio and watched the highlights. Penn St got after Mendoza and it was good to see because IU’s Oline is pretty good and there hasn’t been a huge sample size on how he does under pressure. 

He seems to have the necessary tools to make it in the NFL. Decent processor, a throw first mentality but he can scramble a bit too, makes throws on the run, good size and seems to have the arm strength to make all the throws.  

I haven’t done much comparing him to the other draft eligible QBs, but l think he’s got the goods.

Definitely has the size you would like to see in a AFC North QB, fo sho. 

@texasag1969 said:

I may be prejudiced, but Mendoza has not played any real competition this year. The one decent defense on a 5 game losing streak forced him into a last second prayer of a pass for the win. I need to see how they hold up in the playoffs against the best in the nation before selecting any of the QBs as our #1 pick. Right now I'm not convinced on anybody.

I’ve been pretty in to watching IU football the last couple years and Oregon was their biggest win this year. Illinois was ranked in the top 10 when they played IU but have fallen off since.

I didn’t get to watch the game against Penn but l listened to a bit on radio and watched the highlights. Penn St got after Mendoza and it was good to see because IU’s Oline is pretty good and there hasn’t been a huge sample size on how he does under pressure. 

He seems to have the necessary tools to make it in the NFL. Decent processor, a throw first mentality but he can scramble a bit too, makes throws on the run, good size and seems to have the arm strength to make all the throws.  

I haven’t done much comparing him to the other draft eligible QBs, but l think he’s got the goods.

@syd said:

  please enlighten me with your grasp of our offense woes. 

 I believe yourself and @reality are actually saying the same thing(s) here.   Just a bit of miscommunication on delivery. 

@mddawg said:

I don't think so, Gabriel was wildly inaccurate on several throws when he wasn't even under pressure. There's no doubt Shedeur is a better passer than Gabriel, the argument for the latter was that he was so much more advanced in processing the game than Shedeur, yet he takes the sack before the half almost costing us the tying field goal.  Shedeur would've won the game yesterday, against elite competition may be a different story.

Going back to preseason game 3, and all through training camp, Shedeur was the QB2 behind Flacco. 

Then PSG3 hit and that all changed. When the live rush from another team was presented, Sanders processing speed, and his eyes, fell with it. 

 I don't see anyone else on the internet who has brought this up, but both Gabriel and Sanders were handed a dozen plays each of incredibly similar, or exact same passing structure relative to downs and distance. 

 Sanders dropped his eyes and/or bailed from NFL clean pockets on multiple occasions against the rush,  while Gabriel stood in and either completed or attempted the throws. 

That was what won him the QB2, and eventually, the QB1 job for Gabriel. When the bullets went live, he was more decisive than Sanders was.  

Has that changed with time and more practice reps? Possibly.   But there are two points I'm making here.

- It's a big stretch, at best, to say Sanders would have won yesterday. 

- Gabriel wasn't just handed the QB2 and QB1 job on a whim. He did earn it.

  That said, what plagued him in camp and pre-season is showing up in the worst ways in regular season.   I can see him getting 1, MAYBE two more games. Then Sanders starts after the road trip vs the Raiders. 

 That would give them a similar amount of starts,  7 v 6,  with Shedeur getting his 1st at home against a weak San Fran defense that could help boost his confidence early.     At that point, ride the season out and evaluate the difference in QB play. 

@texasag1969 said:

I may be prejudiced, but Mendoza has not played any real competition this year. 

Iowa, Oregon, & PSU are decent teams. 

@texasag1969 said:

I may be prejudiced, but Mendoza has not played any real competition this year. The one decent defense on a 5 game losing streak forced him into a last second prayer of a pass for the win. I need to see how they hold up in the playoffs against the best in the nation before selecting any of the QBs as our #1 pick. Right now I'm not convinced on anybody.

That's what I'm afraid of, and we all know the QB hype inflates as the draft is about to start.

Then we resort to saying "anything is better than what we have" as we give away talent at a position of other needs to reach for that 'better' qb.

@dutch-oven said:

I definitely think Sanders has the higher ceiling, I just question if he’ll be ready when he plays and we all know what a bad situation generally is waiting for him 

I thought DG woud've done better but I haven't seen anything that says to give him more chances even knowing the hole we have our QBs playing from right now. I'd rather see Sanders sooner than later.

@bbedward said:

We need to bendova for mendoza. At this point, losing is our best option.

Then fire Berry before draft day.

I may be prejudiced, but Mendoza has not played any real competition this year. The one decent defense on a 5 game losing streak forced him into a last second prayer of a pass for the win. I need to see how they hold up in the playoffs against the best in the nation before selecting any of the QBs as our #1 pick. Right now I'm not convinced on anybody.

@mddawg said:

I don't think so, Gabriel was wildly inaccurate on several throws when he wasn't even under pressure. There's no doubt Shedeur is a better passer than Gabriel, the argument for the latter was that he was so much more advanced in processing the game than Shedeur, yet he takes the sack before the half almost costing us the tying field goal. 

I definitely think Sanders has the higher ceiling, I just question if he’ll be ready when he plays and we all know what a bad situation generally is waiting for him 

@dutch-oven said:

Soon enough the Shadeur Sanders Experience will begin, and I predict a spike in interest from Browns fans... and similar results as Gabriel. 

I don't think so, Gabriel was wildly inaccurate on several throws when he wasn't even under pressure. There's no doubt Shedeur is a better passer than Gabriel, the argument for the latter was that he was so much more advanced in processing the game than Shedeur, yet he takes the sack before the half almost costing us the tying field goal.  Shedeur would've won the game yesterday, against elite competition may be a different story.