@bob806 said:

?

No doubt, I think rooting for the Browns is definitely surfing through the waves of confusion, rage, passion ( probably every fan of any team out there). 

I'm seriously on the fence in Stefanski. One hand says keep him, as until this season he was pretty damn good vs the division. The other hand is thinking it's like the Cavs & Lenny Wilkens...good coach but maybe the voice/ leader is getting stale, a fresh perspective might be needed. I'm torn.

Cheers. Happy Thanksgiving to you & all Browns fans. 

Thanks!  Back at ya Bob!   

@flugel said:

More specifically, your buddy Flugel is a confused work in progress.

?

No doubt, I think rooting for the Browns is definitely surfing through the waves of confusion, rage, passion ( probably every fan of any team out there). 

I'm seriously on the fence on Stefanski. One hand says keep him, as until this season he was pretty damn good vs the division. The other hand is thinking it's like the Cavs & Lenny Wilkens...good coach but maybe the voice/ leader is getting stale, a fresh perspective might be needed. I'm torn.

Cheers. Happy Thanksgiving to you & all Browns fans. 

@bob806 said:

I don't care if it's Shedeur, Gabriel, whomever....I'd just like to see an NFL offense that scores points, brings home a W.

The bundling & trading accumulated picks hasn't worked out well in the past. We know hitting on a franchise QB in the draft is less than 50% league wide; here it's more like 5%.

Get the W. Drafting 1st, 4th, 9th, to me it doesn't matter. Just my 2 cents.

That's a good point Bob.  I used to hate hearing we needed to lose for a better draft pick. As this year started to unfold I thought I could hope we lose our way for the right to draft 1st overall; but this year was the only great draft I've seen from Berry so why?  Not for nothing, it was nice to see the defense having a blast and enjoying their domination of an opponent together yesterday.  You're right - THIS TEAM needed to win to feel like that.  I want Myles Garrett to be happy he's here playing for a DC he respects while being turned loose for sic em, sock em and sack em.  This whole front 7 played well and had fun.  Rookie LB Carson Schwesinger was amazing as always.

Offensively, they played hard and it was nice to see Sanders make some plays. Other rookies that played well were Fannin, Judkins and Sampson.  Okay, maybe that warrants a little more confidence in Berry than I have been trained to give him in recent years.  More specifically, your buddy Flugel is a confused work in progress.

For WR's Sanders will have Judy & Tillman to throw to.  And a bunch of guys who won't be on the team next year. But the sad thing is, he'd probably be more comfortable with those bottom of the roster WR's because that's who he's probably been throwing to all season.

@nickers said:

He wasn't that fastest LB I ever saw but he sure played his ass off.. He was a good guy too..

One of the many that played with 100% heart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D'Qwell_Jackson

@mddawg said:

I read on X/Twitter that the addition of former Brown DQwell Jackson considerably improved our scouting and led to this year's successful draft. Don't know how true that actually is but if they repeat the success this upcoming draft then we're onto something.

I remember when someone acknowledged the difference in D'Qwell's game.  He always made a lot of tackles.  Having said that, he started making a lot more of them at the point of attack in lieu of doings so 15-20 yards down field in pursuit.  He made it a point to acknowledge former N.O. Saint Lber Scott Fujita (after he joined the Browns) helped him read his keys better in the film room and identify certain traits from OL tipping off plays within expected tendencies for various downs and distances.  That not only improved his 1st step instinct; but it also helped him to trust it/stay confident in it.  Without all that - he would have just been another Wali Rainier making a lot of tackles too far downfield imo...

@bob806 said:

I loved D'Qwell, but the most ironic thing ever about him is he intercepted Tom Brady, and Deflate Gate was born. 

He rarely got an interception in Cleveland, but he was a reliable tackler for sure.

He wasn't that fastest LB I ever saw but he sure played his ass off.. He was a good guy too..

@mddawg said:

I read on X/Twitter that the addition of former Brown DQwell Jackson considerably improved our scouting and led to this year's successful draft. Don't know how true that actually is but if they repeat the success this upcoming draft then we're onto something.

I loved D'Qwell, but the most ironic thing ever about him is he intercepted Tom Brady, and Deflate Gate was born. 

He rarely got an interception in Cleveland, but he was a reliable tackler for sure.

@dutch-oven said:

I get the gist of what you are saying Bob, in general it hasn't.

But it did last draft, and it can pay off again this coming draft.

Trading down with Jacksonville and taking a player in Mason Graham, picking up a high second rounder that became Quinshon Judkins worked out swimmingly. Travis Hunter was treading water his rookie season before suffering a season-ending injury. Graham and Judkins are guys to build around.

And we get Jacksonville's first rounder this coming April. 

I read on X/Twitter that the addition of former Brown DQwell Jackson considerably improved our scouting and led to this year's successful draft. Don't know how true that actually is but if they repeat the success this upcoming draft then we're onto something.

@ibleedbrown said:

I feel you. I’m hardwired and unable to root against the Browns. Stupid family curse…

This lifelong Aggie feels your pain. Grandfather, father, older brother, etc. Last national champion was my father's freshman year. A late awarded one was the undefeated 1919 team. Shoulda had one in 1957 but Bear Bryant declared he was going to Bama when we were 8-0, 9-0-1 prior season and #1 in the country. Lost the next 3 by 6 point total. Only reward was Crow getting the Heisman.

Bwownz   9

Well then, that sheds a different light on things.   And with one of the worst OL's in team history.  That friggin' guy has had to work like a dog for the vast majority of those yards.  Getting hit in the backfield, no holes to run through, stacked boxes all the time because nobody fears the passing game.  

I hope he gets 200 yards rushing on Sunday!

@ibleedbrown said:

I feel you. I’m hardwired and unable to root against the Browns. Stupid family curse…

I hear ya, but sometimes you gotta concede the year so the next 10 years won't suck. (In theory lol - I'm aware of our track record)

It's not a nice place to be for sure.

https://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2025&wk=12

Only you NOhioans get the game this week. And that weird little part of south Michigan that must be a slave to the Toledo broadcast signal, much like Van Wert is to Fort Wayne.

Other than that, it’s greater Las Vegas, which apparently entails 2 thirds of Nevada and a bit of California.

There are nuclear testing sites that get the Browns game this week. A little paste of Google…

The main nuclear testing site in Nevada is the Nevada National Security Site (NNSS), located about 65 miles northwest of Las Vegas. Other significant sites include the Tonopah Test Range, the Central Nevada Test Area, and the Project Shoal Area near Fallon. These locations have been used for both atmospheric and underground nuclear tests since 1951, with regions like Frenchman Flat, Yucca Flat, Rainier Mesa, and Pahute Mesa being key areas within the NNSS. 

@jax said:

I was going for the losses then we started beating the crap out of the Ravens and I was enjoying it too much to care about the draft anymore.

Still got the loss so it all worked out.

I feel you. I’m hardwired and unable to root against the Browns. Stupid family curse…

@bob806 said:

I'm going to be upset, for example, if the Browns end up say 4th, 5th, or 6th in the order and move up through trading picks. Just stay put, and stay put on the Jax pick. That's all I'm asking. 

And I'm for that also. 

Except when you need a QB.  A football team's dependency on the QB position cannot be overstated.  The rules are adjusted when you need a QB.  New values are assigned.  What is the value of the QB in question?  What draft pick would you need to attain to draft him?  What will that cost?  Is the price you are paying worth the expected talent level (value) of the QB....compared to not making the move, drafting a different position while knowing you still have no QB so your team is gonna suck again.   

This century we've had one of the best LT's ever as well as best DE ever.  1st Ballot HOF'ers.  What did their teams have in common?  Crappy records year after year after year...because they had no QB.  Probably the best pass blocking LT ever to play the game never had anyone worth blocking for. -  It's all about the QB.  It's always been all about the QB.

@dutch-oven said:

I get the gist of what you are saying Bob, in general it hasn't.

But it did last draft, and it can pay off again this coming draft.

Trading down with Jacksonville and taking a player in Mason Graham, picking up a high second rounder that became Quinshon Judkins worked out swimmingly. Travis Hunter was treading water his rookie season before suffering a season-ending injury. Graham and Judkins are guys to build around.

And we get Jacksonville's first rounder this coming April. 

I won't disagree, AB finally had a good draft. Something to build on for sure, and probably saved his job. It also may have pushed DePodesta out ( thank God).

I guess I was too generic in my comments, so I'll expand a bit here.

The draft's purpose has always been to elevate ( potentially) the teams who did poorly the prior season. The Browns have basically been in the lower tier of the NFL since their return in '99 as we all know.

I'd just like them to stand pat, stay where they are in the draft order and draft off their board(s). Accumulating picks through trades sounds great, until the player you drafted doesn't pan out. We've seen countless players not pan out here, and elsewhere. The draft is an inexact science IMHO.

I'm going to be upset, for example, if the Browns end up say 4th, 5th, or 6th in the order and move up through trading picks. Just stay put, and stay put on the Jax pick. That's all I'm asking. 

@bob806 said:

The bundling & trading accumulated picks hasn't worked out well in the past. 

I get the gist of what you are saying Bob, in general it hasn't.

But it did last draft, and it can pay off again this coming draft.

Trading down with Jacksonville and taking a player in Mason Graham, picking up a high second rounder that became Quinshon Judkins worked out swimmingly. Travis Hunter was treading water his rookie season before suffering a season-ending injury. Graham and Judkins are guys to build around.

And we get Jacksonville's first rounder this coming April. 

@orion said:

Exactly!  

Doesn't it hurt in the pit of your stomach to hope that the Browns lose?  Doesn't it make you feel ashamed...while still calling yourself a True Blue Browns Fan?  It's a difficult pill to swallow.  All of us true fans...and if you're a regular at a Browns message board, you're a true fan...we ALL want the Browns to win.  If we beat the Raiders we will feel GOOD, even a little proud.  We'll be in a good mood on Monday morning.  But true blue fans will know in the back of their minds (and the back of our minds are smarter than we are) that a win against the Raiders does nothing good for the organization moving forward.  

WE DON'T WANT TO FUCKING LOSE!   But we HAVE TO....for the future betterment of the team that we love.  

I was going for the losses then we started beating the crap out of the Ravens and I was enjoying it too much to care about the draft anymore.

Still got the loss so it all worked out.

@orion said:

I'll tell you what, either of those two guys wants us picking as far from the #1 overall pick as possible.  They'll be stupidly diving for 1st downs, doing whatever they possibly can to stave off a QB draft pick next April.  

'Get the W.'

The Raiders are at the bottom of the league in Defense....but that's way better than what's needed to stop our offense.  Browns capitalize on a turnover and win 3-0.    

---- actually, they're not bad on Defense.  

Right.

Browns on the road, strike 1.

Browns on offense,strike 2.

Brow....wait a minute....

Browns 22

Raiders 17

Fannin catches a deflected DBs ball in the end zone for the game winning score with 7 seconds left?

@bob806 said:

I don't care if it's Shedeur, Gabriel,

I'll tell you what, either of those two guys wants us picking as far from the #1 overall pick as possible.  They'll be stupidly diving for 1st downs, doing whatever they possibly can to stave off a QB draft pick next April.  

'Get the W.'

The Raiders are at the bottom of the league in Defense....but that's way better than what's needed to stop our offense.  Browns capitalize on a turnover and win 3-0.    

---- actually, they're not bad on Defense.  

@orion said:

WE DON'T WANT TO FUCKING LOSE!   But we HAVE TO....for the future betterment of the team that we love.  

I don't care if it's Shedeur, Gabriel, whomever....I'd just like to see an NFL offense that scores points, brings home a W.

The bundling & trading accumulated picks hasn't worked out well in the past. We know hitting on a franchise QB in the draft is less than 50% league wide; here it's more like 5%.

Get the W. Drafting 1st, 4th, 9th, to me it doesn't matter. Just my 2 cents.