@flugel said:

Good points Nicks but it wasn't just the defense he ass puckered. There's no way I see any of that beating the Giants at the time.  They had the best LBer Corps in the NFL; and they attacked with it (Elway's still having nightmares - just a guess though).  If the Browns couldn't handle Gastineau -  what do we think they would have done to Kosar?

Yeah... If's and what's don't matter now... The past is the past.. Although the Foreskins could've been had...

@nickers said:

Dixon and Minny were the best duo at the time... Had marty not played so conservative and let the line loose... It may have turned out different...

Good points Nicks but it wasn't just the defense he ass puckered. There's no way I see any of that beating the Giants at the time.  They had the best LBer Corps in the NFL; and they attacked with it (Elway's still having nightmares - just a guess though).  If the Browns couldn't handle Gastineau -  what do we think they would have done to Kosar?

@bob806 said:

Phil Simms played out of his mind that SB, but I wondered if he could have done that vs Dixon, Minnifield, & Felix Wright- probably not.

I might have looked at it the wrong way but I'll tell you were I'm from just east of Jupiter.  Elway overwhelmed the Browns with his mobility and cannon for an arm.  The Giants D harassed Elway all game.  The Browns offense played ass pucker football vrs NYJ and only a roughing the passer call against Gastineau saved the day on 2nd and 24 with a little over 4 minutes remaining.  BTW, Gastineau already had 2.5 sacks at that point - so this was NOT the team we watched win 12 games up until that point.  Keep in mind, the Jets were on a 6 or 7 game losing streak.

Then came the Denver game where the Browns were supposed to be the bigger more physical team vrs a finesse team.  The Browns were just as disappointing on offense that day.  It went into OT so they got the ball after the drive and didn't do anything with it if memory serves me right.   The Giants were a superior team to the Denver.  The next year out in Denver, the bump and run was getting yellow hankied (and they were holding most of those times especially Minnifield).  

@bob806 said:

Phil Simms played out of his mind that SB, but I wondered if he could have done that vs Dixon, Minnifield, & Felix Wright- probably not.

Dixon and Minny were the best duo at the time... Had marty not played so conservative and let the line loose... It may have turned out different...

@dutch-oven said:

That was a helluva great Giants team.

I guarantee they would have gave them a better game than the Broncos did… also a better game vs the Skins the next Super Bowl.

The ‘89 Browns would’ve gotten their asses handed to them vs the 49ers though.

Phil Simms played out of his mind that SB, but I wondered if he could have done that vs Dixon, Minnifield, & Felix Wright- probably not.

@bob806 said:

Plain Dealer writer Bill Livingston, who basically ran Earnest Byner out-of-town due to his multiple personal fouls vs the Oilers in the playoff game.

This was Marty's fault.  Even a monkey could see that Byner was out of his mind about the penalty.  I was yelling at the TV, 'GET HIM OUT OF THERE!  GET HIM OUT OF THE GAME!'.   But NOOOooooo, Marty left him out there to continue going crazy.   Marty's fault!

@bob806 said:

I really think they could have beat the NY Giants. We will never know ?

That was a helluva great Giants team.

I guarantee they would have gave them a better game than the Broncos did… also a better game vs the Skins the next Super Bowl.

The ‘89 Browns would’ve gotten their asses handed to them vs the 49ers though.

@flugel said:

The reason for that was because Marty wanted to keep Lindy Infante's offense, which I applaud the idea.  The problem with that is he wasn't Lindy Infante so he didn't understand it fully enough to get the plays wired into the huddle on time.  I remember a MNF game against Houston where they were in position to get an easy 18 yard FG still in possession of at least 1 Timeout and the half expired without the Browns using the timeout or attempting the FG.  I think they lost the game by 2 or 3 points.  

I feel bad for Marty because a lot of diehard fans HATED him for his PREVENT-A-WIN defenses while he'd also be ass pucker conservative on offense.  At least we KNOW he couldn't beat the Giants or Redskins in the SB being his own biggest enemy. All that said, I liked that he consistently won compared to what we've seen since...

Not popular - but that's jmo.

I really think they could have beat the NY Giants. We will never know ?

@bob806 said:

That whole scenario was weird. Marty wanted to be offensive coordinator, wouldn't fire his brother (I think he was the special teams coach). Basically, it was a pissing contest that Modell won.

Throw in a Plain Dealer writer Bill Livingston, who basically ran Earnest Byner out-of-town due to his multiple personal fouls vs the Oilers in the playoff game. The magical seasons that ended in sadness (85-86-87-88). 

I'm not sure Marty was ever going to get us to the SB. He really went conservative in the playoffs, despite having many weapons. Great era to be a fan for sure, but frustrating. 

My opinion, the Browns were the best team in the NFL in 1986, but he chose conservative game plans instead of attacking. People point to the 1986 playoff game vs the Jets as some kind of great game....it wasn't. The final two minutes of regulation was amazing, aided by a dumb penalty by Mark Gasineau. The following week vs Denver, more conservatism, highlighted by playing prevent D on 3rd & 19, then a handoff to Herman Fontenot in OT on 3rd & 2 ( Mack & Byner OFF the field). 

The reason for that was because Marty wanted to keep Lindy Infante's offense, which I applaud the idea.  The problem with that is he wasn't Lindy Infante so he didn't understand it fully enough to get the plays wired into the huddle on time.  I remember a MNF game against Houston where they were in position to get an easy 18 yard FG still in possession of at least 1 Timeout and the half expired without the Browns using the timeout or attempting the FG.  I think they lost the game by 2 or 3 points.  

I feel bad for Marty because a lot of diehard fans HATED him for his PREVENT-A-WIN defenses while he'd also be ass pucker conservative on offense.  At least we KNOW he couldn't beat the Giants or Redskins in the SB being his own biggest enemy. All that said, I liked that he consistently won compared to what we've seen since...

Not popular - but that's jmo.

@nickers said:

No.. Like NEVER winning the big one no matter who he had on his roster..

LOL like we ever won shit and NO I do not want to hear about The Browns games before i was fucking born

@syd said:

you mean like winning ?

No.. Like NEVER winning the big one no matter who he had on his roster..

@nickers said:

And no matter where Marty went.. He made the same mistakes over,,, And over and over again!

He did. Despite that, I do think he belongs in the HOF.

Another weird thing....Marty got fired by the Chargers because of his support for Drew Brees over Rivers. Marty was right, the Chargers were wrong.

@nickers said:

And no matter where Marty went.. He made the same mistakes over,,, And over and over again!

you mean like winning ?

@bob806 said:

That whole scenario was weird. Marty wanted to be offensive coordinator, wouldn't fire his brother (I think he was the special teams coach). Basically, it was a pissing contest that Modell won.

Throw in a Plain Dealer writer Bill Livingston, who basically ran Earnest Byner out-of-town due to his multiple personal fouls vs the Oilers in the playoff game. The magical seasons that ended in sadness (85-86-87-88). 

I'm not sure Marty was ever going to get us to the SB. He really went conservative in the playoffs, despite having many weapons. Great era to be a fan for sure, but frustrating. 

My opinion, the Browns were the best team in the NFL in 1986, but he chose conservative game plans instead of attacking. People point to the 1986 playoff game vs the Jets as some kind of great game....it wasn't. The final two minutes of regulation was amazing, aided by a dumb penalty by Mark Gasineau. The following week vs Denver, more conservatism, highlighted by playing prevent D on 3rd & 19, then a handoff to Herman Fontenot in OT on 3rd & 2 ( Mack & Byner OFF the field). 

And no matter where Marty went.. He made the same mistakes over,,, And over and over again!

@ap1 said:

Marty Schottenheimer and the Browns "mutually" parted ways 37 years ago today.

Is it ever really mutual?

Art Modell's Browns would only go to the playoffs two more times (1989, 1994).

How would the Browns have fared had Marty not left?

In 10 seasons in KC, Marty won over 100 games and had a .635 winning percentage, but he only coached in one AFC Championship Game - 1993.

That whole scenario was weird. Marty wanted to be offensive coordinator, wouldn't fire his brother (I think he was the special teams coach). Basically, it was a pissing contest that Modell won.

Throw in a Plain Dealer writer Bill Livingston, who basically ran Earnest Byner out-of-town due to his multiple personal fouls vs the Oilers in the playoff game. The magical seasons that ended in sadness (85-86-87-88). 

I'm not sure Marty was ever going to get us to the SB. He really went conservative in the playoffs, despite having many weapons. Great era to be a fan for sure, but frustrating. 

My opinion, the Browns were the best team in the NFL in 1986, but he chose conservative game plans instead of attacking. People point to the 1986 playoff game vs the Jets as some kind of great game....it wasn't. The final two minutes of regulation was amazing, aided by a dumb penalty by Mark Gasineau. The following week vs Denver, more conservatism, highlighted by playing prevent D on 3rd & 19, then a handoff to Herman Fontenot in OT on 3rd & 2 ( Mack & Byner OFF the field).