@tiamat63 said:

 It's obvious for all to see. 

The Browns went into the season with Jones, Bitonio, Pocic, Teller & Conklin as the OLine.....with a wish and a hope that they'd get them through to next season where they could really address the OL (& QB if need be).  But one by one, everyone but Bitonio got hurt and missed time.  Then their backups got hurt.  

The WR's:  Judy, Tillman, Thrash, were supposed to be the core.  What happened?  Judy faltered, Tillman continued to be a catch or two per game guy, and Thrash got released because he was so useless.  

These two position groups were supposed to hold us over until they could properly be addressed.  That's what was 'obvious for all to see'.  And now, the HC has to be fired because those two position groups didn't hold up their end of the bargain...a bargain made by The Talent Procurers.  

Schwartz is getting all of the praise.  Why?  Well, because he has pretty good players at all of his defensive positions.  But it's the HC's fault that his offense doesn't have enough talent.

It is what it is.  The HC & QB get more praise then deserved and also more blame than deserved.  

@calfoxwc said:

No, I want a head coach with some moxie and who can communicate.

This implies that Stefanksi isn't communicating team needs.  That just isn't reality.   Ever done budget proposal? You bring your departmental needs to the bean counters, by priority, and then they itemize what they can and cannot give you based on capital.  In this case, draft capital, current vs future needs and budgeting/value for a position group.

@calfoxwc said:

I never said anything about talent scouting. A simple input to those who make the decisions on who to draft would be nice.

How can a head coach have a say on 'who' to draft... if he isn't scouting the talent of the players?    Even a simple input would be a complete shot in the dark.

And the reality of the situation is clear to both the HC and the GM - the need for OL is great.  However, we've known Berry to be something of a head-in-the-sand GM for position groups until they absolutely cannot function.  Only then does he want to confront reality.   You remember how I forewarned you guys about the IDL in 2022?  It took THAT mess for Berry to hire Schwartz and then put a more significant investment into that group.    I just don't see him as being a more proactive type; provided of course he has drafted "his" players for any position group.  He believes that any draft capital, no matter how little, carries the same weight.  Provided it's a non-sexy position group.

 Let's be real, DL and OL isn't sexy.   But it is disappointing because Mr Berry is a former player. He isn't like he hasn't balled at a good level.  He was an Ivy-League DB.  So he should understand the importance of having a quality group in front of you.   I can tell you what it's like playing safety and constantly having to battle contact at the 2nd and 3rd level.

@calfoxwc said:

But Steflunkski fails in that regard.

This is an assumption. One not rooted in reality.  

@calfoxwc said:

It stands to reason that a head coach knows the oline isn't competitive, and knows who to communicate with about it.

 I think we both know that Stefanksi and Berry have discussed this.   It's obvious for all to see.   The media is the media, they're exhausting and can draw their own conclusions.

https://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2025&wk=18

The map reflects that. Not too many people outside of Ohio watching this one on their local tvs.  Except for my forsaken homies in Van Wert. 

There is some spillover in to neighboring states. Talking to you KY, WV and south IN.

The best bologna sandwich in Ohio can be had at the G & R Tavern in Waldo, OH. North of Columbus, but south of Marion.

No doubt this will be played at the stadium tomorrow.

@tiamat63 said:

 Yeah, it doesn't work that way. 

 We blame Stefanski for Dillon Gabriel. Yet you want a head coach, who's primary function is the development of structure and talent, to devote non-existent hours to talent scouting?   

 Makes perfect sense.   

No, I want a head coach with some moxie and who can communicate. I never said anything about talent scouting. A simple input to those who make the decisions on who to draft would be nice. But Steflunkski fails in that regard. It stands to reason that a head coach knows the oline isn't competitive, and knows who to communicate with about it. But, he apparently is a wimp who says nothing, like he says mostly nothing to the media. If you want to blame it all on berry, ok, then get rid of wimpy and berry. At least depo is out the door.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6786355/2025/11/07/browns-paul-depodesta-rockies-mlb/

"

I’m convinced that if the Browns are going to have any sustained success, it will be through one of two ways: accidentally stumbling into a franchise quarterback who is good enough to overcome all of this franchise’s problems or hiring a head coach who is powerful enough and skilled enough to tell the owners to sit down and be quiet. 

Neither seems likely at this point. "

@calfoxwc said:

maybe grow a pair and insist on having more say on the draft?

 Yeah, it doesn't work that way. 

 We blame Stefanski for Dillon Gabriel. Yet you want a head coach, who's primary function is the development of structure and talent, to devote non-existent hours to talent scouting?   

 Makes perfect sense.   

@tiamat63 said:

If the GM & front office are responsible for the overwhelming majority of drafting, then how would this be on Stefanski to fix the talent? 

maybe grow a pair and insist on having more say on the draft? but then, we are talking about a wimpy head coach with no steam. some freaking someone has to tell them the oline has been ignored so much.

I'll explain:

In 2024, the steelers drafted two olinemen with their first and second round picks.

In 2023, the steelers drafted another offensive lineman in the first round.

In 2021, the steelers drafted two offensive linemen in the 3rd and 4rds.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm

*********************************

in 2024, the Bengals drafted Mims, OT, with their first round pick.

In 2021, the Bengals drafted an OG with their 2nd round pick.

**********************************

in 2024, the ratbirds drafted an olineman in the 2nd round

In 2022, the ratbirds drafted an olineman in the 1st round

in 2018, they drafted an OT in the 3rd round, ...they didn't have a 2nd.

**************************************

so, the Browns haven't kept up their offensive line, either by neglect, or incompetence.

@tiamat63 said:

If the GM & front office are responsible for the overwhelming majority of drafting, then how would this be on Stefanski to fix the talent? 

We can only guess what kind of control over who to draft Stef has had over the years.  DePodesta had sway with Jimmy. Stef may have been but a voice in the crowd...GM, Owner, Son-in-Law, DePo...

@calfoxwc said:

It's just me, but I say the offensive line is the engine of the offense.

Nope,  not just you.  

@calfoxwc said:

 I believe the Browns have not drafted an offensive lineman

in the first or second rounds.....but rarely.

Bitonio was a win. 2nd round, 2014.

but it's a dismal history. Jedrick Wills, not so much, in 2020.

Austin Corbett, C, was a second round pick in 2018.

2015, Cameron Irving, C, first round.

It's just me, but I say the offensive line is the engine of the offense.

and Steflunski isn't one to fix it.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

If the GM & front office are responsible for the overwhelming majority of drafting, then how would this be on Stefanski to fix the talent? 

in the first or second rounds.....but rarely.

Bitonio was a win. 2nd round, 2014.

but it's a dismal history. Jedrick Wills, not so much, in 2020.

Austin Corbett, C, was a second round pick in 2018.

2015, Cameron Irving, C, first round.

It's just me, but I say the offensive line is the engine of the offense.

and Steflunski isn't one to fix it.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

@texasag1969 said:

Oh, Cincy has everything to play for, which is denying Myles his sack. We should win it for this reason.

Haha, that's true which means they'll gift us another victory as you said.

@mddawg said:

Should be a shoot out, neither team has anything to play for so it should be entertaining.

Oh, Cincy has everything to play for, which is denying Myles his sack. We should win it for this reason.