@the-cysko-kid said:

When was the last time you checked in on the blue collar folks? I make more money than I ever believed I possibly could. And I have a company vehicle so I dont pay out of pocket for gas.

I guess "blue collar" means leftwing Israel haters on welfare or fraud to him.

@vaportrail said:

I can afford it just fine. I feel terrible for all the Americans with blue collar jobs who are going to have to make some tough choices. 

When was the last time you checked in on the blue collar folks? I make more money than I ever believed I possibly could. And I have a company vehicle so I dont pay out of pocket for gas.

@jax said:

Right...and Trump is an evil fascist dictator hitler that's come to eat your babies and if you don't win the next election then your democracy is lost. ?Oh yeah, and the sea level will rise by 3 feet!

This is Woody in a nutshell:..

.

@mld-woody said:

"you need facts! Facts I say! Speaking of facts, here's some propaganda from the Trump admin I believe completely! And they've totally never lied about anything!"

My guy, as much as the right likes to pretend they only care about facts it's been made abundantly clear over the last decade you, in fact, do not. It's anecdotes, fear mongering, lies, etc. is what you care about. Whatever Trump says, whatever "owns the libs", etc. 

Trying to engage with any of you in a fact based "debate" couldn't be a bigger waste of time

Right...and Trump is an evil fascist dictator hitler that's come to eat your babies and if you don't win the next election then your democracy is lost. ?Oh yeah, and the sea level will rise by 3 feet!

My guy, as much as the right likes to pretend they only care about facts it's been made abundantly clear over the last decade you, in fact, do not. It's anecdotes, fear mongering, lies, etc. is what you care about. Whatever Trump says, whatever "owns the libs", etc. 

Trying to engage with any of you in a fact based "debate" couldn't be a bigger waste of time

@mld-woody said:

Just another area we'll agree to disagree 

Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts...

@vaportrail said:

Yes.

Just another area we'll agree to disagree 

@mld-woody said:

What do you think has damaged the middle class, impacted affordability, and widened the wealth gap more: illegal immigrants or the actions of elites / wealthy and powerful individuals in this country?

Yes.

@vaportrail said:

You're welcome to disagree with these guys all you like, but even the average American has changed their tune on the topic over the past decade. 2/3 of the country supports mass deportations of illegals. https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/majority-americans-support-deporting-immigrants-who-are-us-illegally

We're in agreement that the people creating the problem are also to blame. Trump and his hotels shouldn't get a pass. Corporate farms shouldn't get a pass. Instead of letting the natural ebb and flow of supply and demand allow workers to get a bigger slice of the pie, the job creators have instead opted to maximize profits by promoting mass illegal (and legal) immigration that undercuts the American working class.

Blue collar work *will* pay more if you stop importing a bunch of low-wage immigrants. Just look at what happened to trucking after the unanimous SCOTUS decision in the last month to allow criminal penalties for the companies who hire negligent drivers. Suddenly, the insurance brokers wouldn't touch shady CDL farms for H1Bs and illegals. Spot rates for truckers became the highest they'd been in like 20-30 years. 

Deporting every. single. illegal. and penalizing every employer who allows them to undercut Americans is how you rebuild the middle class and prevent a 1936 Germany situation from happening here. 

And here's a poll showing the majority of Americans prefer a pathway to citizenship 

https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3926

Though I've seen other polls online showing majority approval of deporting illegals but then majority disapproval of how Trump is doing it. How the question is asked / the context is important here, obviously. 

What do you think has damaged the middle class, impacted affordability, and widened the wealth gap more: illegal immigrants or the actions of elites / wealthy and powerful individuals in this country?

@vaportrail said:

You're welcome to disagree with these guys all you like, but even the average American has changed their tune on the topic over the past decade. 2/3 of the country supports mass deportations of illegals. https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/majority-americans-support-deporting-immigrants-who-are-us-illegally

We're in agreement that the people creating the problem are also to blame. Trump and his hotels shouldn't get a pass. Corporate farms shouldn't get a pass. Instead of letting the natural ebb and flow of supply and demand allow workers to get a bigger slice of the pie, the job creators have instead opted to maximize profits by promoting mass illegal (and legal) immigration that undercuts the American working class.

Blue collar work *will* pay more if you stop importing a bunch of low-wage immigrants. Just look at what happened to trucking after the unanimous SCOTUS decision in the last month to allow criminal penalties for the companies who hire negligent drivers. Suddenly, the insurance brokers wouldn't touch shady CDL farms for H1Bs and illegals. Spot rates for truckers became the highest they'd been in like 20-30 years. 

Deporting every. single. illegal. and penalizing every employer who allows them to undercut Americans is how you rebuild the middle class and prevent a 1936 Germany situation from happening here. 

It's a great start, but can you change things with enough/plenty of, corrupt politicians? I'm not for gov't saving anything, but if we can at least stop them from enabling companies/CEOs might be good enough.

Anyone with half a brain can see the problems illegals cause, especially a mass invasion. Just cause woody wants to call everyone racists and bigots doesn't mean no one else knows the problems. So it goes without saying, other than continually having to correct woodys misinformation. 

@mld-woody said:

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you there on the level of blame placed on illegal immigrants.

You're welcome to disagree with these guys all you like, but even the average American has changed their tune on the topic over the past decade. 2/3 of the country supports mass deportations of illegals. https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/majority-americans-support-deporting-immigrants-who-are-us-illegally

We're in agreement that the people creating the problem are also to blame. Trump and his hotels shouldn't get a pass. Corporate farms shouldn't get a pass. Instead of letting the natural ebb and flow of supply and demand allow workers to get a bigger slice of the pie, the job creators have instead opted to maximize profits by promoting mass illegal (and legal) immigration that undercuts the American working class.

Blue collar work *will* pay more if you stop importing a bunch of low-wage immigrants. Just look at what happened to trucking after the unanimous SCOTUS decision in the last month to allow criminal penalties for the companies who hire negligent drivers. Suddenly, the insurance brokers wouldn't touch shady CDL farms for H1Bs and illegals. Spot rates for truckers became the highest they'd been in like 20-30 years. 

Deporting every. single. illegal. and penalizing every employer who allows them to undercut Americans is how you rebuild the middle class and prevent a 1936 Germany situation from happening here. 

@mld-woody said:

***woodpecker FART***

lefties "win" by losing.

yeah, makes NO sense at all.

@ibleedbrown said:

There’s a culpability factor greatly contributing to the “illegal immigrant problem” that’s coming from higher up on the food chain. There are enabling forces that came from high up, and in a sense many of those immigrants are victims of the specter of opportunity. 

It’s kind of been our dirty little secret for a while now, for decades actually. We saw the “mismanagement” of the border under Biden, but was it really mismanagement? 

Not really a big secret, but it became apparent when the Democrats (aka Biden Administration) opened up the border and suddenly they want no voter ID? ?

Combine that with the gerrymandering and you have a political party pulling out all the stops to gain power.

@calfoxwc said:

The woodpecker doesn't worry about illegals' violent crime because the woodpecker, and most all? lefties live per their own feelings. They don't have any respect or love for anything or anyone else, because they don't respect or love themselves. So they sit back and bitch and ridicule, make asses of themselves, and they tend to overcompensate about every issue, every moral norm, they revere making themselves feel better about themselves, mostly by ridiculing everything else.

Patriotism, our military, Christian churches, morals, everything great about our America - they deride it to try to FEEL like they are superior somehow.

Well, tens of millions of Americans do worry about the damage the 12 years of obaMao/biden radical hacks like I described did to our country.

Somehow, in America there is a large subculture of perverted losers who, like the woodpecker, do NOT give a damn about what is wrong.

Illegal violence....men in women's sports.....rampant collections of "homeless mentally ill people/drug addicts.....sex trafficking, drug trafficking....anti-everything that is normal and good about American human beings - they don't care. How they personally benefit is all they live by. If they don't benefit - they use assistance programs, they use words "violently" more and more viciously, because they don't get a free ride that would make them feel better about themselves.

    Social media seems to be part of it happening, leftwing educators is part of it, and leftwing gov adds fuel to the fire - because that subculture is so big now, it can be manipulated to win elections.

  It's a lot like the black community - they were struggling after slavery way back in the day - and they were constantly told to this very day by manipulators that their struggling is because of those white folks, because the white system is "keeping them down" etc etc etc.

   It's very similar to the palestinians blaming the existence of Israel and all Jews for their dire poverty.

  But the truth is - it is all a lie. History is easy to use to show that the palestinians' hatred of who they are not - is why they have destroyed their future since recorded history started.

   And the black communities - so many black folks are getting sick of being manipulated, only to have the same poverty in their existence after decades of believing fake sympathy from democrats. That poverty ends up being of their own making because they voted democrats into office again and again.

   The left has seen it happening, so ...they opened our borders and started doting on the illegals to the point of helping them get a free ride with gov services meant to help AMERICANS IN NEED. To the point of continually releasing them from jails/courtrooms back onto the street - all to curry favoritism from the illegals.

   Illegals were their new voter demographic to win power and control of American taxpayers wealth. Thank GOD we all elected Pres Trump to FIX America back to being AMERICA.

Always appreciate it when you make my point for me

@mld-woody said:

Voter fraud is a Trojan horse / ammunition used by the right as justification to pass voting restrictions.

Give examples of these "restrictions". 

Pains me to even respond to your childish dribble in any post you make with nonsense like this.

@ibleedbrown said:

And honestly, there’s plenty of data out there that shows once immigrants take the steps to gain citizenship and the right to vote, they don’t always vote democrat.

No one here has a problem with the people taking the correct steps to become a citizen, before they break the law by coming here illegally.

Although in my own opinion, we've created such a mess in this country that we need to halt all immigration until we get this country in order. Any specifics beyond that is a novel. 

"man made global warming" became scientifically proven NOT to be some kind of rallying movement to fight extreme crisis.

Climate changes, sure. So they changed it to "climate change".

"NO VOTER FRAUD" became "WIDESPREAD voter fraud".

and when 500,000 mail in ballots go to the wrong people, when dem strongholds mail out mail in ballots to everyone on their voter registrations rolls - they fight like hell to keep deceased folks, relocated out of state folks ON THEIR VOTER REGISTRATION ROLLS. and they are now fighting to give illegals the right to vote, and they have registered them in those places.

  So they use "widespread" to excuse it happening. 10% fraudulent voting can win a close election. but it isn't "widespread" eh? 

   Lefties are sick and twisted birdbrains like you know who.

@mld-woody said:

 ***another woodpecker stinking up the forum FART***

The woodpecker doesn't worry about illegals' violent crime because the woodpecker, and most all? lefties live per their own feelings. They don't have any respect or love for anything or anyone else, because they don't respect or love themselves. So they sit back and bitch and ridicule, make asses of themselves, and they tend to overcompensate about every issue, every moral norm, they revere making themselves feel better about themselves, mostly by ridiculing everything else.

Patriotism, our military, Christian churches, morals, everything great about our America - they deride it to try to FEEL like they are superior somehow.

Well, tens of millions of Americans do worry about the damage the 12 years of obaMao/biden radical hacks like I described did to our country.

Somehow, in America there is a large subculture of perverted losers who, like the woodpecker, do NOT give a damn about what is wrong.

Illegal violence....men in women's sports.....rampant collections of "homeless mentally ill people/drug addicts.....sex trafficking, drug trafficking....anti-everything that is normal and good about American human beings - they don't care. How they personally benefit is all they live by. If they don't benefit - they use assistance programs, they use words "violently" more and more viciously, because they don't get a free ride that would make them feel better about themselves.

    Social media seems to be part of it happening, leftwing educators is part of it, and leftwing gov adds fuel to the fire - because that subculture is so big now, it can be manipulated to win elections.

  It's a lot like the black community - they were struggling after slavery way back in the day - and they were constantly told to this very day by manipulators that their struggling is because of those white folks, because the white system is "keeping them down" etc etc etc.

   It's very similar to the palestinians blaming the existence of Israel and all Jews for their dire poverty.

  But the truth is - it is all a lie. History is easy to use to show that the palestinians' hatred of who they are not - is why they have destroyed their future since recorded history started.

   And the black communities - so many black folks are getting sick of being manipulated, only to have the same poverty in their existence after decades of believing fake sympathy from democrats. That poverty ends up being of their own making because they voted democrats into office again and again.

   The left has seen it happening, so ...they opened our borders and started doting on the illegals to the point of helping them get a free ride with gov services meant to help AMERICANS IN NEED. To the point of continually releasing them from jails/courtrooms back onto the street - all to curry favoritism from the illegals.

   Illegals were their new voter demographic to win power and control of American taxpayers wealth. Thank GOD we all elected Pres Trump to FIX America back to being AMERICA.

@mld-woody said:

There is no study or evidence or wide spread voter fraud. Right wing think tanks have looked. We just have little anecdotes here and there, sometimes not even tied to voting, out of 100+ million votes. 

Voter fraud is a Trojan horse / ammunition used by the right as justification to pass voting restrictions. Right wing policies, in a vacuum, are not popular (we know this through polling), so the right has correctly identified their best bet is limiting the number of voters. The less people voting, especially those more likely to vote Dem, the better for them. 

We should be making voting more accessible. Our voter turnout sucks. 

God you are a blind stupid fuck..

Voter fraud is a Trojan horse / ammunition used by the right as justification to pass voting restrictions. Right wing policies, in a vacuum, are not popular (we know this through polling), so the right has correctly identified their best bet is limiting the number of voters. The less people voting, especially those more likely to vote Dem, the better for them. 

We should be making voting more accessible. Our voter turnout sucks. 

@nickers said:

You just lost all credibility you ever had with " I never bought the theory that it was for votes"... 

Like l had credibility to begin with. True statement though.

Voter fraud has been a recurring hot topic for years now. There’s so many eyes on it. It’s under the microscope which is where you want it if you’re really worried about mass voter fraud. 

And honestly, there’s plenty of data out there that shows once immigrants take the steps to gain citizenship and the right to vote, they don’t always vote democrat. 

That’s my theory. The motivating factor was just filling shoes. 

How many news stories have we seen about illegal truckers? Two dozen?

Why do we have so many illegal truckers? Who is hiring them? Where are all the American truckers? 

That’s just a microcosm of the right questions to ask.

@ibleedbrown said:

You’re fired up tonight Jax. Raar.

“Forces from higher up” boils down to money and influence. We have entire industries that have employed illegals for years. And my guess is they got their hooks into Biden and here we are. So sure, be mad at Biden, but save some of that anger for the fat cats behind him. 

I suspect there was a method to the madness. We’ll know in time. I never bought the theory that it was for votes. I just think we needed more bodies in the working class. 

You just lost all credibility you ever had with " I never bought the theory that it was for votes"... 

@mld-woody said:

Again, it isn't left vs right, it's top vs bottom. Anyone caught up in rooting for their team, caring more about "owning the libs" than solving a problem, is a moron and a pawn for those in charge. 

I get what you’re saying. I actually think the top has gotten really good at manipulating the bottom. It’s impressive.