@car-ramrod said:

Second off I am not a homer towards DA never have been never will be unless yes he does show me other wise. My point was and is DA is better than Brady will ever be. Going through this year with Brady in does nothing for our future.... Nothing..... So I would rather win some games and move on next year in the draft.

While I do respect your view that Quinn is a bum, i'm not at that point with him yet (And it's not because I have a Jersey with the number 10 on it either, lol). I would like to see what he is capable of with a few more pieces of the puzzle around him, that's all. Maybe we're all wrong and Mangini pulled him so he doesn't end up like David Carr or Tim Couch...Gunshy from being on his back for most of the game...If that's the case DA is the perfect answer due to his lack of holding on to the ball very long.

@earl34 said:

He's a tool.

Adam Schein might just be the most obnoxious human being on the planet.

@jadbf said:

I've never said DA has done nothing, and I don't think even the biggest Quinn Fags here (and yes there are some), would even say that.

DA did do something. He played erratically for one season. had some good games. had some bad games, had some meh games.

But he's had 27 starts to show that he can work on his faults and make them better. And in the opinion of some of us here, He hasn't done that, and we don't expect that another 13 starts this year will help him do that.

Then you go to Quinn, ( and I hate to even talk about this because then folks will twist it to make me a Quinn fag), but you have a guy who's had 6 full starts in the NFL, looked decent in one last year, and since then has looked pretty pathetic. But I don't believe you can for sure use those 6 starts to extrapolate what kind of QB he will end up being. His mistakes and lack of ability to get the ball past 5 yards could be a lack of natural ability, arm strength or somethign else that is not correctable. OR it could be that he's playing too "tight" worrying too much about making mistakes and not letting the game come to him. Those things are correctable.

That being said. I have no problem is Mangini doesn't think it's worth working on Quinn's issues, and wants to start DA the rest of the year. In Fact I said if he thinks that, he should trade Quinn now so that the controversy on this team and on these message boards can end.

But that still doesn't change my opinion that DA won't be anything more than an average back up QB in this league, and that if he starts the rest of this year, it means nothing good for the long term future of this team. And I take exception when people try to prop up DA with his stats from 2007 and try to give false hope to me or any other Browns fan.

Plus......I just like to argue...ask Zombo.

Fair enough. I admit I was wrong...

Now I actually think that we do share some of the same view. But JMO I think Quinn is a bum. I have said several times that I always say give the guy time and yada yada yada. But with him just for some reason I don't believe in him. And for the record I dont think DA is anywhere close to where he should be to be a good QB. But he has shown life. And that for me is something because I am a true Browns fan and want to see the team win.

"Plus......I just like to argue...ask Zombo." I am definitely right there with you bro.

Ok I am moving on from this mess. Good going at it with ya.

@xanthros said:

And if DA is his choice than do DA the favor of trading BQ so he can quit looking over his shoulder and worrying about making mistakes and being pulled. The mishandling of our team is what is really making us look terrible, not the play of our QB's. Neither one has the support of the Coach therefore both will be terrible. Not to mention the GARBAGE playcalling we're getting from the OC.

Alrighty then....BASH AWAY fellas

First off nice post....

Second off I am not a homer towards DA never have been never will be unless yes he does show me other wise. My point was and is DA is better than Brady will ever be. Going through this year with Brady in does nothing for our future.... Nothing..... So I would rather win some games and move on next year in the draft.

@jadbf said:

"So forgive some of us if we have a hard time believing DA is going to have some miraculous divine intervention from God and become something he hasn't shown in 27 starts."

That's not saying he's done nothing. That's saying I don't believe he will show us anything different now that he hasnt' shown us before.

Ok honestly and put everything aside just for one moment..... When you were typing at the beginning or in any other post you were never trying to say that DA has done nothing? Be honest my man. And if you say no then I will admit I was wrong and move on and if you say yes then we will move on.

@xanthros said:

And if DA is his choice than do DA the favor of trading BQ so he can quit looking over his shoulder and worrying about making mistakes and being pulled. The mishandling of our team is what is really making us look terrible, not the play of our QB's. Neither one has the support of the Coach therefore both will be terrible. Not to mention the GARBAGE playcalling we're getting from the OC.

Alrighty then....BASH AWAY fellas

You sir are a Quinn fag

Seriously though, I am right there with you and I think most others are as well.

@car-ramrod said:

I can honestly say i've never quite seen a homer towards any one player before in my life...I for one used to be 100% behind DA until he showed us that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. Is Quinn the answer? probably not, but 5 games spread between two regimes with two totally different playbooks and two totally different coaching styles certainly doesn't give ANY player the consistency needed to succeed. DA at least was in the same system for all of his starts leading up to this year, but he STILL looks exactly the same no matter who he is being coached by. The Pro Bowl after the 2007-2008 series was my FIRST clue that maybe he wasn't as good as I had thought he was. Once again I ask, what is Mangini so worried about winning if his whole purpose at this time is to build a franchise of the future?

And if DA is his choice than do DA the favor of trading BQ so he can quit looking over his shoulder and worrying about making mistakes and being pulled. The mishandling of our team is what is really making us look terrible, not the play of our QB's. Neither one has the support of the Coach therefore both will be terrible. Not to mention the GARBAGE playcalling we're getting from the OC.

Alrighty then....BASH AWAY fellas

Masters said:

I'll assume you are laughing at your self, since you have yet to back your claim that either of us ever said DA has done nothing.

Yep laughing at myself.

@jadbf said:

Oh got ya. Ummm to be honest 5 or 6. But I will go with 6. Which is better than Quinns 1 or 2

@car-ramrod said:

I update the second part.....

I'll assume you are laughing at your self, since you have yet to back your claim that either of us ever said DA has done nothing.

Masters said:

He never said DA put up garbage in 27 starts.

I swear to god after reading what you just typed I have tears running down my face from laughing. I promise.

@jadbf said:

which brings me back to

Whoaa you lost me on that one? Dodge what? Sorry I be dumb..

@car-ramrod said:

When you say he has done nothing or has put up garbage in 27 starts ummmm thats what I think you mean. Not something else. And in another post you said he did decent against terrible teams. Uhhh thats also what I thought you meant. I thought you say what you mean and mean what you say? My bad.

He's never said DA "has done nothing".

You are deciding to take the garbage in 27 starts out of context. Twist it how you want, but the meaning wasn't that everything DA did through all 27 starts was garbage.

@jadbf said:

But hey, not all of us comprehend things as quickly as others.

Yep I be dumb.

When you say he has done nothing or has put up garbage in 27 starts ummmm thats what I think you mean. Not something else. And in another post you said he did decent against terrible teams. Uhhh thats also what I thought you meant. I thought you say what you mean and mean what you say? My bad.

@car-ramrod said:

"he hasn't shown in his 27 starts"

That is bullshit Masters. He has had good games if its against bad teams good teams whatever. That is what you wanted me to dig up and now that I did you want to call renig? LMAO

Same thing on the 2nd one.

LMFAO..... It is you who can't get the easiest thing.

The quote you pulled is "So forgive some of us if we have a hard time believing DA is going to have some miraculous divine intervention from God and become something he hasn't shown in 27 starts." (way to shorten it even more in a poor attempt to change the contect). In the context of the post you decide to lift that line from is exactly what I stated. DA has shown no growth, consistency, or reason to believe he will ever be more than what he is.

I said show me where I or JADBF has said DA had done nothing, as you so claimed. You have failed epically on that pal.

Masters said:

I'd call the second one you missing what was meant by that (i.e. the bad throws and choices that continued through all those starts, the up and down, etc.).

Why cant you get the easiest things?

"he hasn't shown in his 27 starts"

That is bullshit Masters. He has had good games if its against bad teams good teams whatever. That is what you wanted me to dig up and now that I did you want to call renig? LMAO

Same thing on the 2nd one.

@car-ramrod said:

Also I dont buy the "only 1 weapon on offense" deal. That line is for suckers. Are there better weapons? Sure but there are other weapons on offense Quinn failed to get them the ball when they were open.

So what does this have to do with Quinn or Anderson?

Its not hard to do better than Quinn has. Throwing the ball and getting a first down is better than Quinn.

You can call the 1st one BS all you want. Doesn't it make it so.

As ot the weapons, what did they do when DA was slinging it in the second half of that game, or all of preseason? I'll venture a guess you don't have game film, just like the rest of us don't, so wh make a statment like "Quinn failed to get them the ball when they were open" when you have no evidence of anyone being open, aside from the one play to MoMass in the DEN game? And you want to call BS on me?

For what it has to do with Quinn or Anderson, you know the answer to that if you bother to pay attention to your own question it was in response to.

As to the last part, I could turn that around and say the same thing about DA for his recent history.

@jadbf said:

Your answer to that will let you know if you are getting a reach around from lums anytime soon.

Me? I'm guessing 3-4.

More than we would with Quinn. Thats all I care about and all Im trying to say. We actually might get some 1st downs with Anderson in the game. I really dont think Quinn understands that you have to go 10 yards for a first down or on 3rd down you have to get past the sticks. That education is going to waste on a football field.

@danamal said:

How anyone can look at the 2007 season as anything less than a failure by DA is a silly argument.

Look at the stats for both the arizona game and the must win cinci game,he blew it not once but twice not the team but he single handedly lost both games with his poor decision making 4 picks alone in the cinci game with two being back to back with less than two minutes to go in the first half.

The bright side for DA was he got a fat contract,got a second hand invite to the probowl when Tom Brady decided to have surgery instead and was awarded six primetime games for the 08 season.

08 isnt even worth talking about and is indefensible and it proved that at best DA is a competant backup,although after the ratbird game last weekend even that has become a question mark.

This team has no general behind center or indentity to run with,I cant stress how huge that is.

2007 season was a failure? Maybe because we did not go to the playoffs or win the super bowl. But winning 10 games and losing 5 when we were pegged dead last is not a failure.

You brought up 2 games. Congratulations you are the man.

This team does need a general and yes we do not have one. That is not the arguement. But thanks for trying.

Masters said:

No, for CLE to have HC who sticks w/ a plan, for CLE to actually not have a predicatable offense, for them not to keep going back to a well that has to date shown to not be the answer, to not go after a couple of meaningless wins for the sake of it, etc. So what does this have to do with Quinn or Anderson?

You keep making it about Quinn, not I. My point is on DA and the notion that after watching him come in and throw 3 terible picks in that could have been 5 in 2 QTRs (the guy with those 27 starts of experience and 5 of which are agaisnt BALT) last week gives any confidence that he will do any better than Quinn has done so far. Its not hard to do better than Quinn has. Throwing the ball and getting a first down is better than Quinn.

@jadbf said:

I knew it wasn't mind

But were you trying to say DA has done nothing?