@flugel said:

The bad part was the content came from the perceptions of a former NY Jets

The Jets have traditionally been a lousy drafting team. So, there's that.

Shedeur was seen as the bastard child by the last HC. Actual on field practice time was actually kind of short, as we've found out recently. And Sanders was given zero time with the starters, and not much time at all with the scout team because that was Gabriel's spot. He received virtually no development time or effort from the coaches. Then, after half the season was gone and the midget got hurt he was thrust into the game(s) and we were told that he was prepared. Fuck no! He wasn't prepared by anyone (except Watson, a little bit). The poor guy had to go out there and introduce himself to the starters and play ball. And play with the worst OL & WR corps in the league. Good friggin' luck with that!

To me, to judge Sanders as to his ceiling by last year, playing on OUR team, is somewhat irresponsible. Even highly drafted QB's struggle in their first year.

Edit and add: When I say irresponsible, that's everyone except the coach('s). If they see and hear him in meeting rooms, watch him in practice, interact with him, and THEY decide that he's not good / smart enough, then that's different. But that does not seem to be the case.

• - I'm expecting a Fedex delivery in a day or so. Tracking says it's in CLYDE OH. There's a Knickerbocker aura right now. Back in the day, I think it was Bill Bradley that said about winning a championship, For about two weeks you walk around with a perpetual smile on your face.

@orion said:

I read where Judy says he sees a big difference in Sanders this year.  He's more confident, more in command, etc.  Which is good to hear.  And Rizzo, who doesn't want Watson starting said that Watson looks very good out there.  But he also wants to see it when there's pads and a pass rush.  

That part in bold has a way of changing everything.

Yesterday, I received a notification about the Browns on my phone so I opened it. As much as it pains me to say this - this was the good part. The bad part was the content came from the perceptions of a former NY Jets scout about Shedeur Sanders. Understanding it came from the same NY Jets think tank that once quickly determined Sam Darnold will never make it in the NFL; because they simply never got a passing grade for having the right personnel handy/healthy enough to protect a passer. For example, how many regular season snaps did Aaron Rodgers survive in his 1st season as a Jet?

Well anyway, here comes this ex-scout from that organization announcing Shedeur Sanders holds onto the ball too long at this part of his career to ever be considered for a chance of improving; because he's already exceeding the point of no return on a bad habit he's perfected. SLAMMING THE BRAKES ON HERE. I actually agree that he, like so many other young/inexperienced QBs beginning their NFL careers behind bad pass protection & a sub-standard WR Corps, will struggle early. As we've learned in our on-going commitment to heartbreak - the challenge with any young QB is making sure there is talent around him (ie; getting WRs that can get open immediately working in tandem with OTs that can protect the edges). Then we can evaluate his pre-snap vision, reads, competence and accuracy more efficiently. If he's consistently accurate - then he's on time enough not to worry about his processor being compatible with the speed of the NFL game. If he's inconsistent - then the team has to track his progress toward better consistency in whatever time-table they determine is best. Furthermore, if bad habits aren't being improved they better get to the "why?" pdq. I trust Todd Monken will be able to handle this.

Interestingly enough, 2nd year HC Dave Canales in Carolina was able to remind Carolina fans that once they equipped Bryce Young with more offensive talent aound him - seeing why Young was a 1st round talent suddenly gets possible. He would know after showing people what Baker Mayfield could look like with WRs like Mike Jones and Chris Godwin in Tampa. They also had a good OL in 2023 & 2024 that could run-block and pass protect well (before that declined some in 2025 via injuries, age and personnel changes).

@the-cysko-kid said:

Who grew up with that? Despite the many assertions I've never once seen jesus depicted as such.

maybe it was a Talladega nights reference ?

@dutch-oven said:

Well if he did exist he surely wasn’t the blonde haired blue eyed version we grew up with.

Who grew up with that? Despite the many assertions I've never once seen jesus depicted as such.

@syd said:

I hear some call him The Black Jesus

His high school coach definitely called him the Michael Jordan of football

@orion said:

A Rhodes Scholar. is what Bill Bradley brought to the senate.  Meanwhile we voted in a president who's college professor called the dumbest student he ever had.  Someday I've gotta read Plato's Republic.  I've read a few pieces of it, like the Allegory of the Cave...and why Socrates didn't like Democracies (spoiler:  it's because stupid people are allowed to run for office and because stupid people are allowed to vote).  But I've gotta make it a priority to read the whole thing.

One time, in a pickup game in the HS Gym, I came running down the left side of the floor on a fast break.  There was no lane to the basket so I just stayed out left of the paint and threw up a no look, left handed hook shot while on the run.  I was told that it swished.     Not for nothin' but I was fucking good at basketball.  Had a hoop on my parent's garage.  Shot hoops in the winter, cold outside, didn't matter.  Shovel the snow off the driveway and shoot.  Top of the key jumpers were easy peasy.  I could dribble through my legs, behind my back, with either hand.  I could shoot Abdul Jabbar hook shots with either hand (and not just shoot them...but reliably MAKE them).  I was the one on one champ of varsity as a junior.  I only played HS ball that one year though.  As a senior I had a job and could not play on the team.  

I played a pickup game when in grad school at A&M  against guys that had All Pro footballer DBs Lester Hayes (who was a basketballer for an undefeated state champ) and Pat Thomas. I shot mainly outside but many times would shoot running across the key going left & sometimes under the basket spinning the ball on a reverse on the other side and sometimes a little running jump hook from the right side. That day I just had one of those nothin' but net days to the point that their whole team was wondering who the hell this was that could do anything he wanted against some great athletes. Believe me I rarely had those nothin' but net days, but that one will live forever as my best basketball memory.

@jppt1974 said:

Hopefully a new era in winning as need new blood. Good luck!

Yup.  Hopefully Monken is the new blood and spark that ignites a new winning era.

...the only caveat is that we have the same owner.  Everybody talks about how the Haslems want so very badly to win.  And how they'll spend whatever money it takes and do whatever it takes to put a winning team out there.  And I truly believe that to be true.  But, it's their decision making that has kept the team down.  Lousy hiring decisions starting right from when they took over ownership.  Hopefully the blind squirrels have finally found the right acorns...and will stay out of their way.

@texasag1969 said:

Bradley at Princeton

A Rhodes Scholar. is what Bill Bradley brought to the senate.  Meanwhile we voted in a president who's college professor called the dumbest student he ever had.  Someday I've gotta read Plato's Republic.  I've read a few pieces of it, like the Allegory of the Cave...and why Socrates didn't like Democracies (spoiler:  it's because stupid people are allowed to run for office and because stupid people are allowed to vote).  But I've gotta make it a priority to read the whole thing.

@texasag1969 said:

If I recall correctly he made a shot without looking back to the basket and told the author that after you shoot so many hours per day you know exactly where you are and don't really need to see the basket.

One time, in a pickup game in the HS Gym, I came running down the left side of the floor on a fast break.  There was no lane to the basket so I just stayed out left of the paint and threw up a no look, left handed hook shot while on the run.  I was told that it swished.     Not for nothin' but I was fucking good at basketball.  Had a hoop on my parent's garage.  Shot hoops in the winter, cold outside, didn't matter.  Shovel the snow off the driveway and shoot.  Top of the key jumpers were easy peasy.  I could dribble through my legs, behind my back, with either hand.  I could shoot Abdul Jabbar hook shots with either hand (and not just shoot them...but reliably MAKE them).  I was the one on one champ of varsity as a junior.  I only played HS ball that one year though.  As a senior I had a job and could not play on the team.  

@dutch-oven said:

There's probably been a long list of players who hit .400 in spring training and came out of the first month of the regular season hitting half of that. 

Probably so, but my understanding was that pitching is always ahead in the spring.

@orion said:

I read where Judy says he sees a big difference in Sanders this year.  He's more confident, more in command, etc.  Which is good to hear.  And Rizzo, who doesn't want Watson starting said that Watson looks very good out there.  But he also wants to see it when there's pads and a pass rush.  

OTAs to me are the equivalent of spring training. 

There's probably been a long list of players who hit .400 in spring training and came out of the first month of the regular season hitting half of that. 

@orion said:

The Knicks got him from the Bullets I believe.  I modelled my game after Walt 'Clyde' Frazier.  He was very smooth and under control.  Didn't do fancy stuff unless it was required, played great defense.  What a backcourt that was....with Dick Barnett and Dean Meminger...with Dave DeBusscher, Senator Bill Bradley, Phil Jackson, Willis Reed and Jerry Lucas.  Lucas would come in for Reed...and sometimes he'd post waayy outside (no 3 point line back then...what the hell is the backup center doing way out there?)  This opened the inside for the rest of the guys.  And if they passed it out to him, he had a beautiful set-shot, and he would bomb it up there and make it with reliable regularity.  Again, this was way back before the 3 point line addition.  Back when nobody shot from that far out.  You had to work for your points.  And that's what made The Pearl so incredible.  He worked magic.  Pistol Pete was another...back in the day...

...sorry Cavs fans.....but, Go Knicks.   ( I still have a pair of Clyde's -  Puma, blue suede. )    

There is an excellent book about Bradley at Princeton called "A Sense of Where You Are". If I recall correctly he made a shot without looking back to the basket and told the author that after you shoot so many hours per day you know exactly where you are and don't really need to see the basket. That's where the author got the inspiration for the name of the book. That was one talented Knicks team!!

@dutch-oven said:

Let’s see how he and Sanders look in training camp

I read where Judy says he sees a big difference in Sanders this year.  He's more confident, more in command, etc.  Which is good to hear.  And Rizzo, who doesn't want Watson starting said that Watson looks very good out there.  But he also wants to see it when there's pads and a pass rush.  

@jax said:

I've been reading a lot of good things about Watson so far, just typical hype trying to create a story?

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Let’s see how he and Sanders look in training camp, specifically when they go up against another team for a week. 
 

Because the last season he stated (2024) he looked horrible in training camp vs whoever the team was we were going up against… (Eagles? Vikings?)

@ibleedbrown said:

Some say Jesus was black.

Well if he did exist he surely wasn’t the blonde haired blue eyed version we grew up with.

@texasag1969 said:

Earl The Pearl Monroe

The Knicks got him from the Bullets I believe.  I modelled my game after Walt 'Clyde' Frazier.  He was very smooth and under control.  Didn't do fancy stuff unless it was required, played great defense.  What a backcourt that was....with Dick Barnett and Dean Meminger...with Dave DeBusscher, Senator Bill Bradley, Phil Jackson, Willis Reed and Jerry Lucas.  Lucas would come in for Reed...and sometimes he'd post waayy outside (no 3 point line back then...what the hell is the backup center doing way out there?)  This opened the inside for the rest of the guys.  And if they passed it out to him, he had a beautiful set-shot, and he would bomb it up there and make it with reliable regularity.  Again, this was way back before the 3 point line addition.  Back when nobody shot from that far out.  You had to work for your points.  And that's what made The Pearl so incredible.  He worked magic.  Pistol Pete was another...back in the day...

...sorry Cavs fans.....but, Go Knicks.   ( I still have a pair of Clyde's -  Puma, blue suede. )    

@ibleedbrown said:

Some say Jesus was black.

That was Earl The Pearl Monroe who was part of the last Knicks Championship team. Beside Black Jesus as he was known on the streets of Philly, he was also called Thomas Edison because of all the different moves he invented in High School.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

@syd said:

I hear some call him The Black Jesus

Some say Jesus was black.

@dutch-oven said:

Is he still in the NFL?

I don't think he's played since 2023.

@orion said:

Watching the Watson highlights video above, one would think that Peoples-Jones was a great receiver.  So much for highlights...

He & Baker had decent chemistry. Once he got traded to the Lions, that was it. I think he's on the Saints now.

@orion said:

Watching the Watson highlights video above, one would think that Peoples-Jones was a great receiver.  So much for highlights...

Is he still in the NFL?