@mopaji said:

But once again, same thing I heard and we have all said about the last regime and the one before that. You say keep it in perspective its only 4 games. Then tell me we finally have a coach, a staff, and that they are doing it right. That's keeping it perspective? How in the world do we know this is a solid HC and staff (our OC is inexperienced)? It's 4 games in. We don't really know jack, except what we have seen on the field, and that hasn't been good.

As to the roster, I have heard and said that same thing with the past regime. I heard that about Andra Davis, Chris Crocker, Brian Russel, Griffith, O'Hara, etc. Yet those guys end up starting on other teams after CLE lets them go. Now I am not saying those guys or others are all world somewhere else, but they sure ain't 3rd stringers like we try to convince ourselves over and over.

I want real tangible sustained progress before I am buying any of what these guys are selling after watching this football team for 4 weeks. Finding new ways to lose games and repeating the same mistakes is not progress in my book.

I certainly wish I could put on my blind faith Browns fan hat like I did when these guys walked in the door, but I can't do that anymore. Not after what I have seen to date. Because it is the same old same old on the field and off so far. I hope I am completely wrong, but I am going to have to be proven wrong by this staff before I get behind them.

Masters said:

You aren't spelling anything out to me or telling me anything new. What you aren't getting is I hear that every 3 years. Hell, I have said it. Yet you want me to buy fully and blindly into that nonsense again. Nothing ever comes of it. This time CLE is starting over and have a record as bad as when they were an expansion team. That is progress? I wasn't looking for the playoff. I figured 6~7 wins. This team will be lucky to win 4 from what I have seen. Yesterday CLE gave up 156 yards on the ground to the tune of 5.1 YPC. You will not win football games doing that. As Browns fans, we should know that by now.

Yesterday did nothing to get me excited as a fan. If anything it made me less interested in this team.

If I told someone that a football team blocked a FG, blocked an XPT, forced 2 turn overs, and won the TOP, then asked them if they thought the team won or lost, what would most say? They'd say the team that did that won the football game. In most cases that would be the correct. But not the Browns that looked much better. They did all that, and still managed to lose. Progress....

If Mangini now has his guy at QB (the guy he didn't think was his guy 3 weeks ago), then I'll be hearing this same thing in another 2~3 years. We've already been down that idea and the result was a new GM/HC. But this time, it will be different..... Where's Lewis Black's rant on candy corn when I need it.

When this team doesn't find ways to lose a game, I'll call it progress.

I completely understand your frustration but you've gotta keep it in perspective. This new staff is 4 games in and are making progress. Unfortunately we are on our 4th regime already and that is just a sad fact. But I believe that finally, we have a coach. Hell, we have an entire coaching staff finally. I think if you want to be pissed about anything it should be that it took this ownership 10 years to do it right. This formula and this rate pf progress is EXACTLY what should have happend in 99. The reason we look like an expansion team is because we have an expansion team roster. Most of these guys would be 3rd a depth chart or waiting at home for a phone call if they weren't here. And that is by no fault of this new regime. This type of rant should be reserved for 2011. This is just way to soon to jump ship. Especially when our coach is doing things right. We should be thrilled right now. Yeah, it sounds silly but we should be thrilled that this staff knows what they are doing and they are doing it in Cleveland for once. Again, this is what the building process looks like. Sit back and enjoy it because when it's complete, we will finally be able to say "Remember how bad we were?".

@hoorta said:

The Bungles were so afraid of him, they finally wised up and started kicking out of bounds in the fourth quarter.

PS the coaches only get a C-. The two timeouts at the end of the game and overtime were highly questionable. In fact the last one gave Palmer the chance to lobby Lewis to go for the win- he was going to punt the damn ball, and go for the tie.

Marvin sez: "Thanks Eric"

Why is it CLE keeps going to the well of inexperienced OC when they have a defensive minded HC? Definition of insanity is the CLE Browns.

@atenears said:

We have NOT tried everything we could, and haven't all year for that matter. I've been preaching this for a long time- Daboll is freaking terrified at the thought of letting Cribbs try a pass out of the WildDawg.

The Bungles were so afraid of him, they finally wised up and started kicking out of bounds in the fourth quarter.

PS the coaches only get a C-. The two timeouts at the end of the game and overtime were highly questionable. In fact the last one gave Palmer the chance to lobby Lewis to go for the win- he was going to punt the damn ball, and go for the tie.

Marvin sez: "Thanks Eric"

@mopaji said:

Every year? Not what I suggested at all. I can't believe this needs to be spelled out for you. When you switch staffs, you start over. And so, we can only look at 4 games as a reference. And now, with Mangini's guy at QB, you can see a little clearer as to what is to come. And as the rookies progress you will be able to see how well he drafts and what he's putting together. I won't say 'building' because some poeple on here act like I'm saying 'f***k your mother" when I use that word.

I didn't know the 99 season was 4 games?

Not trying to be witty. Drinking the kool-aid is a 20+ year old saying which came from the the Jonestown tragedy that basically means "Whatever they tell you, don't believe it too strongly". It fits.

You aren't spelling anything out to me or telling me anything new. What you aren't getting is I hear that every 3 years. Hell, I have said it. Yet you want me to buy fully and blindly into that nonsense again. Nothing ever comes of it. This time CLE is starting over and have a record as bad as when they were an expansion team. That is progress? I wasn't looking for the playoff. I figured 6~7 wins. This team will be lucky to win 4 from what I have seen. Yesterday CLE gave up 156 yards on the ground to the tune of 5.1 YPC. You will not win football games doing that. As Browns fans, we should know that by now.

Yesterday did nothing to get me excited as a fan. If anything it made me less interested in this team.

If I told someone that a football team blocked a FG, blocked an XPT, forced 2 turn overs, and won the TOP, then asked them if they thought the team won or lost, what would most say? They'd say the team that did that won the football game. In most cases that would be the correct. But not the Browns that looked much better. They did all that, and still managed to lose. Progress....

If Mangini now has his guy at QB (the guy he didn't think was his guy 3 weeks ago), then I'll be hearing this same thing in another 2~3 years. We've already been down that idea and the result was a new GM/HC. But this time, it will be different..... Where's Lewis Black's rant on candy corn when I need it.

When this team doesn't find ways to lose a game, I'll call it progress.

Masters said:

Again, if you want to drink the kool-aid again, have at it. But I am going to have to see real progress and wins before I get on board with this one. No matter how bad this team was when EM took over, it was not as bad talent wise as the 1999 expansion team, yet have done just as much/little as that team.

Wow, you with the kool-aid. You really need to ask your kids for a new supply of witty remarks.

Every year? Not what I suggested at all. I can't believe this needs to be spelled out for you. When you switch staffs, you start over. And so, we can only look at 4 games as a reference. And now, with Mangini's guy at QB, you can see a little clearer as to what is to come. And as the rookies progress you will be able to see how well he drafts and what he's putting together. I won't say 'building' because some poeple on here act like I'm saying 'f***k your mother" when I use that word.

I didn't know the 99 season was 4 games?

Masters said:

That has been my Orwellian theory all along and today, Rizzo said on the air that there has been a lot of talk about that. It would explain SOOOO much about the QB competition. So, although it may not be 'fact', all of the signs point to yes.

@atenears said:

Yesterdays game was entertaining. I felt and heard the pulse of the fans as they streamed out of Cleveland Browns Stadium yesterday, stating that all they wanted at this point was a competitive game and to be in the game until the end. Baby-steps for a once proud franchise, but certainly reality in week #4.

The place wasn't packed as the club seats were only about 70% full, most other sections though were filled and all stayed until the end (or until Palmer broke the long run in over-time).

We got our monies worth yesterday, unlike week #1.

Amen, brother. Amen.

@brownb499 said:

Thanks Masters for thing

I try to contribute

Thanks Masters for thing

@mopaji said:

So every year I should just forget everything I have ever seen of the Browns and heard from the various staffs

Again, if you want to drink the kool-aid again, have at it. But I am going to have to see real progress and wins before I get on board with this one. No matter how bad this team was when EM took over, it was not as bad talent wise as the 1999 expansion team, yet have done just as much/little as that team.

Masters said:

Sorry Vegas, but I have drank enough Kool-aid over the last 9 years. I am off the stuff.

You just cannot compare regimes. This one has nothing to do with the last one. That's part of the problem with firing coaches; you have to start all over again. And as fans, we can only compare the four games of this year. You cannot go back any further than that. And so, with that as the barometer, we have made some progress and about 4 weeks sooner than I thought we would. I'm pleased. Still 5-11 is the best we should hope for.

Oh, and the fine was after they were warned. But, hell that still makes him an asshole for trying to establish some rules and people follow them................even the superstars.

Are you sure this is a reinvention? Maybe it's just players starting to buy in and man up.

The invention is still under construction and the reinvention is next year.

@chieforangeblood said:

Apparently you don't understand how to use an analogy either, based on the above failed attempt.

Analogy

1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.

3. Biology. an analogous relationship.

4. Linguistics. a. the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet.

b. a form resulting from such a process.

5. Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects

@chieforangeblood said:

And who the F*#! made you the Browns Boards editor and chief.

You sound like that crazy ass in Iran trying to explain away the holocaust. "How do you know the holocaust happened, this is not a fact its a made up story".

Um, no it wasn't (speculation and fact are two different things. I have given the definition of both below for you, since you obviously need them). There have been zero reports stating Quinn starting was Lerners decision.

To date, there has been no verifyable reports, or even any with the infamous "unnamed source" stating that Quinn starting was Lerners decision.

Fact

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.

—Idioms6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.

7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.

8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.

Speculation

1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.

2. a single instance or process of consideration.

3. a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.

4. conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.

5. engagement in business transactions involving considerable risk but offering the chance of large gains, esp. trading in commodities, stocks, etc., in the hope of profit from changes in the market price.

6. a speculative commercial venture or undertaking.

And who the F*#! made you the Browns Boards editor and chief.

You sound like that crazy ass in Iran trying to explain away the holocaust. "How do you know the holocaust happened, this is not a fact its a made up story".

Masters said:

Alright back to arguing football talk.

@car-ramrod said:

Glad to help. I have had to blindly find them myself.

Masters said:

Another way to look for it is below the Fonts drop down (when you move your cursor over it it will say insert image, and it looks like a picture).

Got it. Thanks my man.

@car-ramrod said:

Icon might have been a better choice of words.

Another way to look for it is below the Fonts drop down (when you move your cursor over it it will say insert image, and it looks like a picture).

Masters said:

Oh, and for the picture, I believe it is the button 3 to the right from the strikethrough drop down

Button 3 to the right from the strikethough drop down. Damn I told you I'm not bright with this. You lost me at Button.

@chieforangeblood said:

I will have to presume that you do not know the definition of the word FACT.

@pl4tinum said:

I thought this was a football forum and didn't have to put periods, commas and shit. But no problem I will just for you.

I was trying to make a point with the and the and a and the and the and the. In case you didn't get it, it was me saying there were alot of positives.