@choco said:

sorry, im done with this. you can't even defend your position, so its not really worth arguing. there is no logical way you can bash the past FO for horrible draft after horrible draft, then contend that one of those picks (who happens to be a local favorite, so no bias there) is gonna be a star. so given that your argument is based on emotion rather than real observations and logic, there will be no changing your mind.

but you could just deal with it, rather than make continued attempts to convince the wrong people that youre right.

I am under no obligation to defend a position to you for anything. I believe it is YOUR observations that are based on emotion because of some perception you have about BQ...a perception that apparently 6 games has satisfied you. I am simply ASKING that I be given a better opportunity to "observe and use logic on". My point about Quinn is that I dont have a mind on him yet to change. There is simply insufficient data on him, as there is on all those other guys I listed in the first post on this thread.

What I am right about is that I don't know enough about Quinn to get the kind of exercise you are getting by jumping to conclusions about him

sorry, im done with this. you can't even defend your position, so its not really worth arguing. there is no logical way you can bash the past FO for horrible draft after horrible draft, then contend that one of those picks (who happens to be a local favorite, so no bias there) is gonna be a star. so given that your argument is based on emotion rather than real observations and logic, there will be no changing your mind.

but you could just deal with it, rather than make continued attempts to convince the wrong people that youre right.

@choco said:

Perhaps you are too young to recall, but Brian Sipe spent was drafted by the Browns in 1972 and spent his first 2 years on the Taxi Squad. He didn't even see action in an NFL game until 1974, then he spent 2 more seasons as the backup to Mike Phipps before finally being given/earning the starting job. So, apparently the Browns coaches at the time didn't think much of his decision making capability for quite some time.

All Sipe needed was experience. Perhaps all Quinn needs is experience.

@the-gipper said:

DA was 66/117 56.4% completion rate for 793 yards. 5 TDs for a 4.3% TD rate.

8 Ints. for a 6.8 % int. rate. 6.8 Yds/att. 158 yds per game avg.

8 sacks for a 6.4% sack rate

And here is the new ranking:

Best completion %: Sipe, DA, BQ, BK

Mosts yds/att.: DA, BK, tie BS and BQ

Best TD%: DA, BK, BQ, BS

Lowest Int. %: BK, BQ, DA, BS

Lowest sack %: BQ, DA, BK, BS

Rating: BK, BQ, DA, BS

@the-gipper said:

to go with a fraction of the decision making capability...

@drunkandstoopid said:

I suspect that DAs first season stats would far surpass those of Quinn, Kosar,and Sipe. Here they are, lets see:

DA was 66/117 56.4% completion rate for 793 yards. 5 TDs for a 4.3% TD rate.

8 Ints. for a 6.8 % int. rate. 6.8 Yds/att. 158 yds per game avg.

8 sacks for a 6.4% sack rate

@drunkandstoopid said:

By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Mangini actually coached Farve. He might have a clue on if Quinn is the next Farve.

Well, we should give him at least 20 starts to see if he is maybe not Favre, but perhaps the next Brian Sipe. Quinn certainly has a stronger arm on him than Sipe did.

@ballpeen said:

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but in the end there are more losers who dick around with a poor player than those who let a good player go.

Just go with the odds, you will come out ahead...

My point on all the player stats I listed are that they are all young, unproven players who by no means should be given up on....including Quinn, and MoMass, and Robo etc. etc.

@lumbergh said:

So no, you're wrong again.

I am right that DA apparently throws an uncatchable ball. Otherwise how would you account for the disparity?

@insidenation said:

Just exactly how much time should they be given? I'm pretty much in favor of smacking them in the head with a big board to see if it will do any good.

I think Anderson has been given more than enough rope and hasn't show ME anything. I'm dying to know what the coaches see that encourages them to keep him in. I miss seeing those nice little across the middle passes that Quinn is good at. Honestly I'm not that enamoured with either of these QBs. I just hate sitting on pins and needles waiting for the inevitable INT at a key moment.

@lumbergh said:

The answer is no.

Correct, Lums. I agree. And your buddy has about an equal chance of being the next John Elway.

Right now, the odds say DA has a far more likelihood of following the Jeff George (without the attitude) path to oblivion, as ever amounting to a hill of beans.

@the-gipper said:

Order of TD%: BK, BQ, BS

Order of Int.%: BK, BQ, BS

Order of yds/att: BK, tie BQ and BS

Order of Rating: BK, BQ, BS

Order of Sack %: BQ, BK, BS

Also, yards per game: BQ 137.6, BK 131.0, BS 60.3

Now Add DA's first season of starts and do the order... that'd be an even way to measure things.

@the-gipper said:

5 Ints. 2.9% int. rate. 5.6 yds/att. 64.5 Rating

11 sacks. 6.0% sack rate.

Compare DA: 35 games played. 27 starts. 554 of 1035. 53.5% completion rate. 6701 yards. 45 TDs. 4.3% TD %

41 Ints. 4.0% Int.%. 6.5 yds/att. 71.7 Rating

42 sacks. 3.9% sack rate.

Look, who knows what could happen. Niether if these guys have had quality careers to date.

All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre...or the next Ryan Leaf. And I don't know either way. I say give him 20 games...same as was give Leaf, same as was given Charlie Frye, to find out.

So since Ryan Leaf was given 20 starts, the Browns should give Brady Quinn 20 starts to see if he's the next Ryan Leaf. Just great.

By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Mangini actually coached Farve. He might have a clue on if Quinn is the next Farve.

@the-gipper said:

ftfy

@the-gipper said:

Player 1: 5 career games played. 16 career catches. 278 career yards. -0- career TDs

Player 2: 2 career games played. 1 career catch. 23 career yards. -0- career TDs

Player 3: 2 career games played. 9 career runs. 15 career yards. -0- career TDs

Player 4: 4 career games played. 5 career tackles.

Player 5: 67 career games played. 25 career catches. 192 receiving yards. 1 receiving TD.

Player 6. 38 career games played. 138 career carries. 676 career yards. 1 rushing TD.

Player 7. 16 career games played. 13 career tackles. 1 caused fumble

Player 8: 7 career games played. 95 career completions. 963 career yards. 3 career TDs. 5 career ints. 11 sacks

Let me know if you think all of these guys should be dumped.

Sorry Gipper...I am sure those are are all great players...we could list hundreds with similar numbers who totally sucked.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but in the end there are more losers who dick around with a poor player than those who let a good player go.

Just go with the odds, you will come out ahead...

@the-gipper said:

at the time of those stats Anderson had thrown 84 passes, Quinn 93.

So no, you're wrong again.

@lumbergh said:

And that was before the pittsburgh game.

So your suspicions are wrong.

My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops, or alternatively, DA throws too hard when he doesn't need to, he throws behind or in front of receivers and they get hit with drops for passes that are off target.

But, I am not really trying to make this a DA vs. BQ issue. I am simply saying that there is no reason to give up on a guy you haven't even given a chance to see how he plays.

And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him.

@solon16 said:

Brady-baby is done. Accept it.

@the-gipper said:

Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes.

And that was before the pittsburgh game.

So your suspicions are wrong.

want to address the hole in the logic?

edit: im not being sarcastic, and not faulting ya for likin the kid. but i dont understand how you can make the comment on our failed talent evaluators, precede it by a veiled attempt to trap people into judging stats, then follow it up with a plea to play the kid who was drafted by those incompetents. seriously, i dont follow it.

@choco said:

see why that doesn't compute?

then, to continue to cite the evidence that BQ is in fact a bust, this being his 3rd year, this was also confirmed by a coaching staff that has a much better player eval history when Mangini benched his ass.

point being, you're still holding on to some hope that he'll be good (great, in your words), when all evidence points to the exact opposite. and your willing to waste more time and money on the experiment. i understand he's a hometown boy, but he's a square peg, and does not fit here.

And the evidence is also true that Bernie Kosar and Brian Sipe should have been shipped out after their first season here. (Hell, remember that Sipe did not actually become the Browns starter until about his 4th or 5th season in the league).

@lumbergh said:

And you have no fu**ing clue whether that is the case or not. You might be right, you might be wrong, but your prejudice refuses to allow for not having that clue.