@jason-j said:

More to the point, Derek Anderson's highs are very high. He's just never been able to mitigate his lows. On any given Sunday, if he gets it going, Derek Anderson can out duel any quarterback in football. The problem with Derek has always been... that a bad day is a really bad day. When Peyton Manning has a bad day he goes 14 for 29 for 162 a TD and a pick. When Derek goes bad, he goes 9 for 35 for 85 yards and 3 picks.

It's just his game.

Some argue that it's a function of big quarterbacks... that they're more prone to mechanical breakdowns. It's hard saying. I know this, when he starts getting his feet going the wrong way, and starts arming the ball, people start dropping passes. Should they catch them? Probably. But you'll see a lot of guys that look handcuffed by his throws. And I can't tell you why.

What's worse is he's got a lot of guys dropping balls that are on time and on target (or at least near-enough on target). And that's hard on the psyche. Derek's a confidence quarterback. And when he's unsure, he's inaccurate. And Derek's inaccurate he's in-f'ing-accurate.

But, yeah... I think he will have a game or two.

-jj

You may right, it just won't be in the NFL.

@chicopee-john said:

I will still to this day contest that Chris Palmer did some great coaching that first year. He was on pace with linking this team/franchise to it's roots and made sure of it. Attending a training camp was special; a player would drop a pass in a WR drill and there he was not ten feet from the guy, coaching, instructing and sometimes barking (if it was repeatitive), what seemed like seconds later on the far field, someone would muff a punt and there he was again, ten feet from the kid, coaching, instructing and sometimes barking. He knew where to be, was in place at the hot spots and at the right times and had the camps under control.

The next season, it was almost the opposite. He was dialed back, seemed to have a lot of authority taken from him. Perhaps players being inserted that he didn't want, guys doing things wrong that he couldn't connect with ... and with that Carmen Policy, Dwight Clark and Al Lerner were more present on the field.

It was an ugly transition. I went from learning a lot of coaching techniques from Palmer to feeling sorry for him in a matter of months.

@hammertime said:

Sure. Derek Anderson can get as hot as any quarterback in football. When you've got an arm like that, it snaps into place once in a while and you get some fireworks. He's just never been able to keep it consistently.

More to the point, Derek Anderson's highs are very high. He's just never been able to mitigate his lows. On any given Sunday, if he gets it going, Derek Anderson can out duel any quarterback in football. The problem with Derek has always been... that a bad day is a really bad day. When Peyton Manning has a bad day he goes 14 for 29 for 162 a TD and a pick. When Derek goes bad, he goes 9 for 35 for 85 yards and 3 picks.

It's just his game.

Some argue that it's a function of big quarterbacks... that they're more prone to mechanical breakdowns. It's hard saying. I know this, when he starts getting his feet going the wrong way, and starts arming the ball, people start dropping passes. Should they catch them? Probably. But you'll see a lot of guys that look handcuffed by his throws. And I can't tell you why.

What's worse is he's got a lot of guys dropping balls that are on time and on target (or at least near-enough on target). And that's hard on the psyche. Derek's a confidence quarterback. And when he's unsure, he's inaccurate. And Derek's inaccurate he's in-f'ing-accurate.

But, yeah... I think he will have a game or two.

-jj

nmills said:

when the highest paid player on the team is your first round pick year after year it eliminates money to spend on building a team instead of on a first round pick. Then you add in if you miss on a pick, then your stuck paying an unproductive player and it sets you back even further."

His point was we miss on our draft picks and can't coach them well...Adrian Peterson makes alot of money and he's worth it...JT makes alot of Money and he;s worth it....as to the rest of our #1's...Horrific! Mack better be a HOF for me to justify taking a center in the first round!

@jason-j said:

Then he'll go back to being Barney Fife with a bazooka.

They'll win another ugly ugly one too, I'd imagine... probaly 9-6 or something, couple of nip/tuckers with the likes of Detroit and Kansas City and there you go. You're 5-11 and picking fifth again.

No, I'm still about the same.

-jj

I'm not challenging your views on this, but you really beleive DA can throw for 4 touchdowns and over 300 yards for one game or the rest of the season?

@hammertime said:

If by that you mean, do i still think the Browns will limp into the bye week, and win a handful of games in the second half? Yeah. They probably will. They'll win a few near the end. Anderson will still have one of those temptation games - Temptation in the AA sense - you know the kind where he hits everything in site, goes 21 for 30, 355 and 4 touchdowns, and everyone goes "See, they finally let him cut it loose." You know how it goes.

Then he'll go back to being Barney Fife with a bazooka.

They'll win another ugly ugly one too, I'd imagine... probaly 9-6 or something, couple of nip/tuckers with the likes of Detroit and Kansas City and there you go. You're 5-11 and picking fifth again.

No, I'm still about the same.

-jj

@solon16 said:

I think they pretty much did that on Sunday. By the middle of the 3rd quarter you could've thrown a hand grenade almost anywhere in the upper deck and not harmed a soul.

-jj

@fan-of-steel-1 said:

coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.

As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.

This is actually the problem, when the highest paid player on the team is your first round pick year after year it eliminates money to spend on building a team instead of on a first round pick. Then you add in if you miss on a pick, then your stuck paying an unproductive player and it sets you back even further. This past draft Mangini traded back and picked up a solid center, saving alot of money, and adding alot of depth, all for one pick. So he addressed the center position for hopefully years to come and can still add FA with the money you saved to address other positions instead of drafting 1 player in the top 5, and spend all that money on a player that might not even contribute.

@mopaji said:

Chris Palmer should never have been fired. He won some games with absolutely nothing. He beat Pittspuke too!

@chicopee-john said:

Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?

Anybody??

I think most people wanted both the coach and GM out of here. RAC because he handled losing like he just dropped a nickle down a sewer drain. "Oh shucks" and he mis-managed games on numerous occasions all the while winning 4 games with an arguably better team than 2007. And Savage because all of his choices proved to be really really bad.

This year is different because what little talent we had coming in...

Thomas - He can only play LT

Edwards - Sucked here and was leaving next year anyway

Winslow - The only guy with any trade value so we would have more than 4 picks...

....is either gone or is a LT. Mangini brought in some pretty average players himself but he had to stop the bleeding somewhere and these vets are not long-term solutions. Plus, RAC and Savage were no better off after 3 years on the job and Mangini and Kokinis are only just beginning their first year. We may be able to say they suck in 2 years, but one thing will never change. This team is talentless right now, in 2009, and there isn't much a coach can do with a limited amount of draft picks, no money, and one offseason.

@gips said:

Ordinarily this makes a ton of sense however, in our case you can't really run more than a High School system. These players are really bad and it has become glaringly clear. There is just NO WAY we can believe these NFL coaches really don't know how to call or plan for a game. It is far more likely that they have ZERO talent to work with. Think of it this way, you have Brandon Jacobs where do you run him? Outside? Nope. INSIDE because that's where you can best utilize his strengths. Now think of our team who has ZERO talent and zero strengths, you're not going to ask them to do something they just cannot do. And with our players, that is a lot more than what they can do. Hence, you get a High School gameplan and play calls.

And so to my point. This team is talentless. Each one of them gets beat on every down by whoever is lined up across from them. We keep hearing these defeated players say "we work really hard it just aint coming together yet". When I hear those things, after I feel kinda bad for them I realize what they are really saying. "We try really hard, we believe in our ability but we just kinda suck at our jobs". For anybody out there wondering what it would look like if the best college team in the nation played an NFL team, watch the Browns. Its the same thing. A bunch of undeveloped young players who don't have the luxery of unlearning bad habits and developing over the next 2 years. This team needs to be purged.

From there, come the coaches/scouts and the dedication to designing a team that will be competitve in our environment. That means that draft choices focus on the line of scrimmage, and linebackers, and that a fast-truck like Peterson cannot be bypassed.

We are making elementary mistakes and we keep on making them. Lerner, please fire the coach now and sell the team to someone smart enough to pass high school.

@chicopee-john said:

Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?

Anybody??

That is a great question. Especially if you factor in that the coach created a QB controversy, traded away some of the best talent on the team for pennies on the dollar, tore up any team cheistry that existed, and continues to play one of the worst QBs in the league.

Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?

Anybody??

I still think your O-line should have been one of the best in the league. Your defense I saw it's weakness coming and I'm not sure what your coach was doing.

Here is the bottom line and I will stop beating the dead horse. Mangini is feeling the pressure and let his ego get in the way before the season even started. He is now feeling it even more with a rookie coach in Denver from the same coaching tree who is succeeding and he is floundering. I don't really see his vision and what he is trying to achieve with the decisons he is making. The only thing that makes sense is that they want to keep Quinn from making his $ and trading him and starting over again.

The problem with that? It's not very often that a rookie QB comes into the league ready to go. It's damn rare. He should have been looking at every free agent QB available and making every attempt he could to pick them up if he did not have confidence in either of these two. I think he should still pick up a Vet that is a second string QB or free agent at the end of the season and not pick a top draft pick QB in the first round. Work on the defense, work on the O-line AGAIN, and work on the contracts of your best players instead of letting them walk. First on the list should be Cribbs. If you guys let him go I hope more than any player the STEELERS pick him up. The browns have been almost criminal with their players.

@fan-of-steel-1 said:

coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.

As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.

agree 1000% but you missed the real reason...we can't fuking draft our way out of a wet paper bag, let alone out of the basement of the afc north

coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.

As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.

@jason-j said:

Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.

It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.

-jj

@jason-j said:

Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.

It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.

-jj

Have you changed your stance on the direction the team is heading?

@squintz said:

But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.

This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.

Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset

It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.

I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.

Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.

It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.

-jj

@clevelandfanforlife said:

At a certain point..it's not the playcalling it's the execution of that play.. that's the players.

@jason-j said:

Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.

But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.

This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.

Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset

It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.

@jason-j said:

-jj

Geez. I wish I could remember the guys name... he wasn't a head coach but wound up as an assistant and was, at least once, considered for a head coaching position. Bill Walsh apparently thought he was one of few people who really grasped the intricacies of the West Coast offense. The guy, a lawyer, contacted somebody with the team (SF 49ers) because he'd once played football, and asked if they could use somebody to play catch with the QBs. He did it on a lark. To his surprise, they found something for him to do. Later, they promoted him to QB coach. He was constantly surprised that they kept giving him jobs, and was fully prepared to go back to a law practice. He just kept moving on up the coaching ladder. I heard this story, in great detail, from the lawyer/coach's best friend.

My point? I agree, there are always new coaches. Furthermore, they can come from anywhere.