@buster said:

I'm surprised at all the negativity towards dog pound Mike. No.....I don't know him, but am I missing something?

yeah he's a very dedicated browns fan who I hear travels around the country to away browns games, most of you criticizing him probably aren't near his level of dedication.

@peterbell said:

This team was total f**king garbage last year, undisciplined, lazy ass, prima donna's.

There was no accountability from anyone..The roster was f**kin trash. 26 guys that

released from last years team only f**kin 2 of them NOW have NFL jobs..WTF does

that tell you..There's probably still a few left...yes?..You cannot flip an entire NFL roster in

one freakin year..its not possible..Mangini is playing the rookies, using Cribbs more, The defense

has played well for long stretches, Mack and Masaquai look like the real deal

Brown Fans..Don't let the media, local or national hoodwink you into not supporting your team.

We have 11 picks next year thanks to Mangini and Kokinis, so give them some f**kin time to do the job.

There ain't no f**kin magic wand here people. Smart planning and rebuilding a roster is the only way

to make this team competitive..The Redskins keep trying to buy that playoff team..How's that working out

for them. Its f**kin not, They are in cap hell and they suck.

Every Brown fan alive should have howled at that a**hole Savage..HE PUT US IN THIS POSTION NOT MANGINI AND KOKINIS. A

BUNCH OF THOSE GUYS THEY CUT WERE SAVAGE'S DRAFT PICKS AND THEY CAN'T EVEN GET JOBS IN THE

F**KIN LEAGUE NOW

My apologies for all the curses but I'm sick and tired of this negative bulls**t..The Brown are OUR team

You think any of those journalist are Browns fans..hell no there not.They know if they bring up the Browns

or Mangini it gets them press coverage everywhere..Its self serving BS by people with NO knowledge of

how to build an NFL franchise..Mangini has seen it done in NE and HE DID IT in NY and Kokinis was a huge

part of it in Baltimore..Have some FAITH and patience people..What happen the last 10 years here is not

EM or GK fault.

peterbell

I also agree with most of this post minus the fact that Massaquoi looks like a #2 receiver at best.

I'm surprised at all the negativity towards dog pound Mike. No.....I don't know him, but am I missing something?

@buster said:

Maybe an anti DA t-shirt too......oh I forgot....it's not his fault at all.

if i ever see Dog Pound Mike in person i'm gonna punch him in his fat gut. how about that message?

just on principle alone, screw that dude.

never betray those that like you. EMPOWER THEM.

Maybe an anti DA t-shirt too......oh I forgot....it's not his fault at all.

@fan-of-steel-1 said:

He was so smart to lose his last 13 games and position his team for the first pick in the draft ... I bet you guys cheered every loss, never wavered ... wow, I wish we had such neat-o fans.

posers ... Chuck Noll didn't exsist until years later when Football was finally born in Pittsburgh.

@atenears said:

Chuck Noll in his first year as coach started by drafting two of the best nfl players in history. He continued that and never made stupid decisions like trading away your best talent. What he did the first year was get rid of the "dead wood" on the team and kept the best talent. Pretty much the exact opposite of what Mangini did.

@atenears said:

We protested a bad call ny throwing bottles, did you support us on that? hyprocrite.

I would never support you guys for thowing bottles at the refs. That was rediculous and could have seriously hurt someone. A protest otherwise would have been supported by the entire NFL, even your rivals.

As far as your FU. Right back in your face Stan. All I did was put up my opinion.

What part did I put up with my team? None as a player. But, I was there as a fan supporting them since my first game in 1969. My family was friends with many players and announcers in the 70s and I spent alot of time at games on the sidelines with my father because he was a sports reporter at the time.

But if they ever started pulling the crap your coach is recently I would have protested, especially if one was making news like this one is.

@peterbell said:

There was no accountability from anyone..The roster was f**kin trash. 26 guys that

released from last years team only f**kin 2 of them NOW have NFL jobs..WTF does

that tell you..There's probably still a few left...yes?..You cannot flip an entire NFL roster in

one freakin year..its not possible..Mangini is playing the rookies, using Cribbs more, The defense

has played well for long stretches, Mack and Masaquai look like the real deal

Brown Fans..Don't let the media, local or national hoodwink you into not supporting your team.

We have 11 picks next year thanks to Mangini and Kokinis, so give them some f**kin time to do the job.

There ain't no f**kin magic wand here people. Smart planning and rebuilding a roster is the only way

to make this team competitive..The Redskins keep trying to buy that playoff team..How's that working out

for them. Its f**kin not, They are in cap hell and they suck.

Every Brown fan alive should have howled at that a**hole Savage..HE PUT US IN THIS POSTION NOT MANGINI AND KOKINIS. A

BUNCH OF THOSE GUYS THEY CUT WERE SAVAGE'S DRAFT PICKS AND THEY CAN'T EVEN GET JOBS IN THE

F**KIN LEAGUE NOW

My apologies for all the curses

peterbell

You had me at Lazy Ass! Dude that gets an A+ for style points. I can't believe how guys like Carmen Policy and Phil Savage escape out of town without an ounce of acountability for what they did to enormous spending allowances the owner allotted them. I've been asking people HOW they can blame Mankok for the hand they received.

I'm looking at the guys improving and every single TALENTED guy on this roster is playign betetr in my opinion:

Joe Thomas has held countless big name sackers sackless.

Cribbs is playign beter than ever on returns IMO.

Wimbley, before the flu, was on a pace to devour the season he had as a rookie

Many said D'Qwell was playing his best football

Alex Mack is improving every week

Mike Adams is our most well-rounded DB not to be confused with Phil's Brodney Pocket pool

Shaun Rogers, when healthy, had us in ideal positions to win games vrs Buffalo and Cincy.

Steinbach looks better this year than he did last year.

All these people that wonder why GREAT candidates wouldn't consider Cleveland and the first people to say "Fire the Head Coach" as early as preseason in the 1st season. Some of that is just crackpipe abuse of freedom of speech folks. Come on!

You cannot possibly assess the type of job being doine without fully understandign the magnitude of screwup Savage and Policy set us back with. Firing 1 scapegoat hasn't solved the problem yet has it?

- Tom F.

@peterbell said:

telling us what to think and what we should..With the print media its always about selling newspapers

which will be obsolete in a few years and they know it, so they are turning them into GOOSIP COLUMNS.

because they know that sells..its really quite sad...we are CLEVELAND BROWNS FANS LETS ACT LIKE WE

ARE

On this site, we used to have a bunch of poser's that were just Brady Quinn fans. I think their sisters brought him home once or something and they feel connected .. well that, and a few had man-love for the guy. We ridded ourselves of them, kicked them to the curb. This site ain't about 'hit counts' of dreamy-eye'd QB fags ... it's about football and I like what this site attracts and that is fans who see what needed to be done here, are staying the course, and are watching the small improvments as the young guys gain experience and all parts begin to gel.

Sometimes it is like watching grass grow, but it beats debating QB's endlessly who either most likely won't be here in the end anyhow.

Daboll seems to be pushing Anderson and praising the young receivers. I like this. The receivers need confidence and Anderson needs to know his excuses are running out. I'm looking for the best game our passing game has had here this season. I know that ain't saying much, but it's the old 'watching grass grow' thing again ... but it is something to watch. The game-inside-the-game is what you tune into these contest for this season. those that can't understand that will be joining DawgPound Michell in a boycott, hanging around the tailgate spilling more beer on their Frye costumes.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

LOL..Thanks also ATENEARS. I'm just done with this crap and people who are not even Browns fans

telling us what to think and what we should..With the print media its always about selling newspapers

which will be obsolete in a few years and they know it, so they are turning them into GOOSIP COLUMNS.

because they know that sells..its really quite sad...we are CLEVELAND BROWNS FANS LETS ACT LIKE WE

ARE

@peterbell said:

There was no accountability from anyone..The roster was f**kin trash. 26 guys that

released from last years team only f**kin 2 of them NOW have NFL jobs..WTF does

that tell you..There's probably still a few left...yes?..You cannot flip an entire NFL roster in

one freakin year..its not possible..Mangini is playing the rookies, using Cribbs more, The defense

has played well for long stretches, Mack and Masaquai look like the real deal

Brown Fans..Don't let the media, local or national hoodwink you into not supporting your team.

We have 11 picks next year thanks to Mangini and Kokinis, so give them some f**kin time to do the job.

There ain't no f**kin magic wand here people. Smart planning and rebuilding a roster is the only way

to make this team competitive..The Redskins keep trying to buy that playoff team..How's that working out

for them. Its f**kin not, They are in cap hell and they suck.

Every Brown fan alive should have howled at that a**hole Savage..HE PUT US IN THIS POSTION NOT MANGINI AND KOKINIS. A

BUNCH OF THOSE GUYS THEY CUT WERE SAVAGE'S DRAFT PICKS AND THEY CAN'T EVEN GET JOBS IN THE

F**KIN LEAGUE NOW

My apologies for all the curses but I'm sick and tired of this negative bulls**t..The Brown are OUR team

You think any of those journalist are Browns fans..hell no there not.They know if they bring up the Browns

or Mangini it gets them press coverage everywhere..Its self serving BS by people with NO knowledge of

how to build an NFL franchise..Mangini has seen it done in NE and HE DID IT in NY and Kokinis was a huge

part of it in Baltimore..Have some FAITH and patience people..What happen the last 10 years here is not

EM or GK fault.

peterbell

come on peter, tell us how you really feel.

@peterbell said:

There was no accountability from anyone..The roster was f**kin trash. 26 guys that

released from last years team only f**kin 2 of them NOW have NFL jobs..WTF does

that tell you..There's probably still a few left...yes?..You cannot flip an entire NFL roster in

one freakin year..its not possible..Mangini is playing the rookies, using Cribbs more, The defense

has played well for long stretches, Mack and Masaquai look like the real deal

Brown Fans..Don't let the media, local or national hoodwink you into not supporting your team.

We have 11 picks next year thanks to Mangini and Kokinis, so give them some f**kin time to do the job.

There ain't no f**kin magic wand here people. Smart planning and rebuilding a roster is the only way

to make this team competitive..The Redskins keep trying to buy that playoff team..How's that working out

for them. Its f**kin not, They are in cap hell and they suck.

Every Brown fan alive should have howled at that a**hole Savage..HE PUT US IN THIS POSTION NOT MANGINI AND KOKINIS. A

BUNCH OF THOSE GUYS THEY CUT WERE SAVAGE'S DRAFT PICKS AND THEY CAN'T EVEN GET JOBS IN THE

F**KIN LEAGUE NOW

My apologies for all the curses but I'm sick and tired of this negative bulls**t..The Brown are OUR team

You think any of those journalist are Browns fans..hell no there not.They know if they bring up the Browns

or Mangini it gets them press coverage everywhere..Its self serving BS by people with NO knowledge of

how to build an NFL franchise..Mangini has seen it done in NE and HE DID IT in NY and Kokinis was a huge

part of it in Baltimore..Have some FAITH and patience people..What happen the last 10 years here is not

EM or GK fault.

peterbell

Great post Peterbell ... finally someone else who gets it, please stick around and post more as I am so sick of this negative bitching and moaning lead by the media and absorbed by sheep-fans.

@atenears said:

I don't think FOS is trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to clarify something about the difference between a QB that WILL throw the ball depper than 4 yards and one that refused to. The one willing to seemed to give our RUNNING GAME some giddyup by the way defenses were playing us. Never said they were SCARED of DA but I did say somebody like Cincy certainly stopped cheatign Safeties up in the box EVERY time we've played them after our first matchup with them in 2007 (5 TD passes and alot of Cincy Safeties MIA that day in the pass defense). The NEXT we played them we RAN the ball well but our QB threw 4 INTs. I'm not a DA fan - I just thought he provided a spark to PARTS of our offense that were previously lifeless when Quinn was starting.

BUT neither QB lit it up in the preseason. I think with the knowledge that Quinn was seemingly talented enough to be a 1st roung pick and knowing DA took every snap in our 10 wins in 2007, he was hoping he wasn't choosing the more talented QB instead of the lesser of 2 evils.

Going down memory lane BEFORE Bradshaw ever got his career completion percentage above 50% I know Terry Bradshaw was benched for Joe Gilliam by Chuck Noll. Not every Hall of Fame QB shows up like they're headed for the hall of Fame and there is no example better than Bradshaw or even Dan Fouts if you look at how he started off.

I watched a TIVO'd college game yesterday. Jonathan Crompton was 12 of 24 passing with 2 TD passes to the FBs (one of them was actually underthrown near the goal line and would have been dropped by our backs). Point is - if he had 8 guys dropping passes on a rainy day - his stats would have changed to 4 of 24 and the steady flow of "the QB sucks" floods their local radio stations. Truth is he played well considering the weather and a wet ball. When guys CATCH the dang thing it does wonders for a guy's confidence and rythym. If they drop it on 3rd down - we're kicking. The OLD DA used to throw a higher percentage of his passes to the opposing jersey so if they're hitting our PROS in the facemask, chest or hands - it's actually an improvement on the accuracy thing.

Guys HAVE to catch the football when they're getting 6 digit salaries or they just become temps. I'd rather see Vickers in our passing game than Jamal - we're dicking that kid around all because Jamal needs a pacifier. Not only that, NOW when Harrison comes on the field - we take the 1 BIG back willing to block for him off the field and we end up giving more of the carries to Jamal when I see this limp wristed backfield of Lewis and Harrison. IMO, our line is blocking WAY better than they're getting credited for per Joe Thomas' in the huddle comment: "Hey fellas - can we start catchign the damn ball?" He's shut some pretty big names out but people are getting more caught up in fire the OC, Fire Mangini and listen to Jamal about running a business. Are ya freakin kidding me?

Every Sunday, my biggest question is WHO is our scoring weapon in the vertical game. Who's the seasoned legit #1? If you can answer that with comfort and joy - trash the QB all you want. Neither QB got dick out of Edwards this year and we've already replays of 2 Sanchez INTs that bounced off Edwards' hand first. I'm not GIDDY about our inherited QB situation BUT I do think whoever is starting for us can be helped by the following things:

1) More talent at WR. Stallworth gave us the high hard one in the dumpster. Braylon has other interests. Winslow is on his 3rd QB in TB already.

2) Better focus and concentration. NOBODY on this team comes back to the ball, which is why we're so conditioned to default right back to DA sucks. NOBODY looks it in - that has to be conditioned. Guys are looking for daylight after the catch when the ball is coming to them. Run the freakin route.

3) Speaking of routes - who is seasoned enough to understand the NFL blitz adjustments out there? I mention a Marvin Harrison available because he covers all 3 needs mentioned here extremely well. The BEST part about him is he is a FREE AGENT meanign we don't have to trade guys we need to KEEP. This where Lerner should be in better tune with the people deciding what comes out of his wallet. I think Mangini and Kokinos are trying to do the best they can BUT why are we so willing to throw up a white surrender flag at our WR position with 9 games left?

4) If this isn't enough, I don't mind losing Winslow for TEs that actually block DE/OLBs - what sucks is Heiden has been injured, Rucker was apparently worthless, Royal doesn't do anything well. I thought Gaines looked good both times he was thrown to and Eric Estrada/whatever is allegedly miossed in Jax. Hopefully this gets better with repetition and chemistry.

- Tom F.

There was no accountability from anyone..The roster was f**kin trash. 26 guys that

released from last years team only f**kin 2 of them NOW have NFL jobs..WTF does

that tell you..There's probably still a few left...yes?..You cannot flip an entire NFL roster in

one freakin year..its not possible..Mangini is playing the rookies, using Cribbs more, The defense

has played well for long stretches, Mack and Masaquai look like the real deal

Brown Fans..Don't let the media, local or national hoodwink you into not supporting your team.

We have 11 picks next year thanks to Mangini and Kokinis, so give them some f**kin time to do the job.

There ain't no f**kin magic wand here people. Smart planning and rebuilding a roster is the only way

to make this team competitive..The Redskins keep trying to buy that playoff team..How's that working out

for them. Its f**kin not, They are in cap hell and they suck.

Every Brown fan alive should have howled at that a**hole Savage..HE PUT US IN THIS POSTION NOT MANGINI AND KOKINIS. A

BUNCH OF THOSE GUYS THEY CUT WERE SAVAGE'S DRAFT PICKS AND THEY CAN'T EVEN GET JOBS IN THE

F**KIN LEAGUE NOW

My apologies for all the curses but I'm sick and tired of this negative bulls**t..The Brown are OUR team

You think any of those journalist are Browns fans..hell no there not.They know if they bring up the Browns

or Mangini it gets them press coverage everywhere..Its self serving BS by people with NO knowledge of

how to build an NFL franchise..Mangini has seen it done in NE and HE DID IT in NY and Kokinis was a huge

part of it in Baltimore..Have some FAITH and patience people..What happen the last 10 years here is not

EM or GK fault.

peterbell

@timpiker said:

The best message? Keep the stadium empty until they become a competitive team. The message? That we're sick and tired and not going to take it anymore.

Speak with your wallets. Stay home.

You do realize the next step if the stands stay empty don't you? It's not rebuilding, they've been trying to do that since expansion. Owning a professional football team is a business and like any business, if it doesn't make money it'll shut sown and move on. That my friends, is the next step!

@the-italian-dawgpound said:

I mean: no more bla-bla-bla on RAC, DA, BE, BQ, EM. Just the ownership.

That would change the perspective, wouldn't it?

For, ehm..., "geographical reasons" I will not be able to do anything in support of the boycott. But if I lived in Cleveland I would be part of it.

Yeah but.........

Yes Randy's an idiot, no doubt, but I wouldn't think greed stands in his way.

He probably wants to be better.

But he could stumble across a decent management and coaching staff that could be successful.

Bob Kraft is not a genius.

He got lucky and stayed with it.

WSS

@hammertime said:

RL couldn't give a rats ass whether your in your seats or not.

True, but I think a symbolic boycott will definitely bring the focus on the fact that fans point their fingers at the owner.

I mean: no more bla-bla-bla on RAC, DA, BE, BQ, EM. Just the ownership.

That would change the perspective, wouldn't it?

For, ehm..., "geographical reasons" I will not be able to do anything in support of the boycott. But if I lived in Cleveland I would be part of it.

@timpiker said:

The best message? Keep the stadium empty until they become a competitive team. The message? That we're sick and tired and not going to take it anymore.

Speak with your wallets. Stay home.

Seems only people who arent spending anyway think this way. As a Bengals fan, i have the silly fan boycots and planes and billboards FRESH in my mind. buncha fools. notihng was accomplished by a silly website or group of fans or bags on heads or empty seats..

the only money your taking away from the team is concession and pro shop sales.. which is probably 1-2 mil per game, tops,the teams bills are paid with the CBA: tv deals, merchandise deals, shared revenue, etc..

what happens if they make zero money for the rest of the year? not much financially, some good tax write offs, but then what happens?

do you think, that somewhere in an office in your teams front office there are guys saying..

wow... WAIT A MINUTE! all this pretending to win stuff isnt working, maybe i should try now?

the only way to make money as an nfl franchise is to WIN games, you can hear crickets in the pro shops after a loss, and cant get in the door after a win.

winning = money

so taking away, a mac 16 million to 32 million in lost concession or merch sales is nothing.. the teams are worth nearly a BILLION dollars..

it does nothing but make the fans look fickle and like a weak fanbase.

either you get the right people to pick the right players and motivate properly or you dont... boycott does nothing, walk out does nothing.

ownership needs to make a wise GM choice and/or a wise HC choice so they can make wise coordinator choices, and so on.

and even if all that goes well, you have injuries and experience working against success too.

look at the bengals a year ago and today..we arent half way into the year yet and have 25% more wins than last year..

maybe 4 new players and about 15 back from IR....

if quinn or anderson had plenty of time to throw, things would be different, you may not need new WR's new rb, new qb, new linemen ,etc.. maybe a better blocking scheme or better blockers fixes a "majority" of offensive issues.

harrison looks crazy fast hitting the line and holes, and the WR from Georgia is a monster..

some of the skill pieces seem to be there.. a head coach gets 3 years typically to get his staff in place and players in place..

im not a mangini fan, but he is still cleaning up someone elses project currently..

2 drafts and time to adjust the team to his type of guys will speak volumes..

ownership and management will do NOTHING, until plan A has run its course properly..

the past 13 years mistakes have NOTHING to do with 2009, or 2010, or 2011, nothing is more foolish than bengals fans saying things like "1 winning season in 18 years" as if 1998 has something to do with marvin, palmer, chad, etc... its just silliness...

you paid ticket money for entertainment, go and have fun with friends and fans...

boycotting is utterly pointless and foolish...

@flugel said:

I don't mind you entering the discussion but don't take statements out of context. I don't think I ever used the word SCARED. I just know the ONE team in the league that didn't respect DA's arm strength was the ONLY team he ever lit up for 5 TD passes in 1 football game. I've never seen them cheat their safeties up against us since that day. That being the case, we've been able to RUN the ball effectively against them EVEN the rematch game in 2007 where we ran for 140 yards inspite of 4 DA INTs.

When Quinn was starting, teams could put all 11 guys in the box because Quinn wasn't looking deeper than 3-4 yards downfield. It definitely plays a role in how defenses are game planning for the Browns' offense. Hence, my favorite 2 games were the first 2 games Quinn didn't start this year. We had a chance to win both games because we RAN the ball well. Nobody thought DA was Pro Bowl material BUT they seemed reluctant to cheat their Safeties up. As time goes on, if we don't have anyone CATCHING the passes touching their fingers - we'll prolly see more teams willing to cheat Safeties into the box. Why not? If that's not enough, Jamal hasn't been catchign passes well and we've had different guys starting at TE for us seemingly every week.

I don't think we HAVE a franchise QB employed on this team right now so I'm not as willing to fight for 1 of them right now. Jimmy Johnson said it best on 1 of the halftime shows last week: "the more Derek Anderson AND Brady Quinn start games - the less market value they have." More specifically, they both stink.

- Tom F.

@flugel said:

WOW! Take a bow for that GREAT piece of literature!

We've seen both QBs so I'm not gonna argue over fart stenches. My favorite 2 weeks of the season were the first 2 weeks after Quinn sat down. I'm not saying DA lit it up per say; BUT I am saying the opponents feared passes deeper than 4 yards so Safeties were less apt to cheat up. - Tom F.

I don't have much time. The kids are starting to knock on the door and I have to put my browns football suit on for the Scary holiday. LOL

Really though, it sounds like you think that DA is a better option. I have always said the same thing. If he is then Mangina should have gone with him from the begining. All he did was cause a major controversy, sold your better players for pennies on the dollar, and tore apart any chemistry your team had. What he did almost tore this site apart let alone a team full of players who bought into the system when he decided he had no system except crazy.

Teams put those players in the box because of what Anderson DID FOR A FEW GAMES years ago. They know how to beat this guy, the entire NFL does. I'm sorry but Mangina has made as bad a decisions as any of your coaches and I was wrong about him. I thought he was a good choice but it looks like he is just a guy who puts his ego in front of the reality of what it takes to win.

Quinn may or may not have been your franchise QB, but for Mangina to do what he did takes serious stupidity. That kid never had a chance in the browns orginization and neither did any of your players to really succeed with the decisions being made.

I know... Harsh. Sorry, I'm looking at this as a fan who is not even a fan of your team, wants your team to succeed, and would be happy as hell if you guys actually started making teams worry about playing you instead of being a huge pushover.