@the-gipper said:

The logic of combining them is that they are all won by teams in NEOhio.

What is it about that you don't understand?

The important thing to New Yorkers about "New York Yankees" is the New York. New Yorkers wouldn't give a shit if "The Yankees" were the Baltimore Yankees.

the Important thing about "The Browns" is the "Cleveland" part of it. Not "the Browns" part of it.

As Seinfeld said, "all you are rooting for is the laundry" if all you care about is "the Browns".

St. Louis had a baseball team once called "The Browns". Do you love those "Browns". I think not.

It is the "Cleveland" part, be it Browns, Rams, Indians, Bulldogs, Pros that is important. Not the Laundry

Nice semantics game, you may never have said "the browns" but when you trot out all of the Browns championships against the numbers of others and throw out some BS statistic like 13 you're implying they are. Asshat.

@the-gipper said:

DING DING DING ...You are Dead on !!! Pittsburgh and The Cowboys ... maybe NE ... and defiantly GB.... are Probably the Tops in Number of actively "Proclaiming fans" at the Moment. But the Potential of the Brown~wagon is scary too. Arm them and you could fight China. Pittsburgh is there now and the Cowboys win a Super Bowl (I guess they gotta actually Win a playoff game 1st lol) and it would blow up massively. The Browns Steelers Packers and Cowboys easily have the Most potential in good times. Maybe the Raiders would be in there as well.

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

Well, I believe The Browns Backers is still THE largest organized fan club of any team in America (and possibly beyond). The key word of course is organized. I don't by any means think the Browns have the largest following. Too many FRAKs on the Cowboy bandwagon I suspect. (I am not a member of any Browns Backer Club). If the Browns started winning big though, the din from their followers could be incredible. A lot of those "fairweather" fans would come out of hibernation. There are an awful lot of transplanted Northeast Ohioans all over the south and west. The FRAKs, however, can stay the frak home.

@the-gipper said:

Just in case you want to know the different categories of fandom, here you are:

1.Die hard fans: Fans who support their team, their town, win or lose. Good weather or bad. And the fact of the matter is, the Browns have many, many of these. Obviously given what we have been through.

2. Fairweather fans. These are true fans of a team....as long as they are winning and things are going well. (Yes, the Indians had their fare share of these from 1995-2002, and this is what you are describing about certain Steeler fans)

3. FrontRunnersAssKissers. (FRAKs). These are people that glom on to a winning team because they are winning.

Many of your brethren "Steeler fans" are exactly this. Here are a couple of notable examples: 1. LeBron James...claims to be a Yankee fan and a Cowboy fan. Only a freeking FRAK could ever come up with this combination. Notice that those are the teams that were winning pretty big in the 90s when he was younger. (yes, I am fully capable of criticizing one of our own....my nephew was his classmate at St.V/St.M. ) 2. Ben Roethlisberger. Says he was a 49er fan. How does a kid from Findlay, Ohio, halfway between Detroit and Cleveland become a 49er fan? By being a FRAK) (and you know well that many of the FRAK Steeler fans probably jumped off the bandwagon this morning. A real fan of the variety of #1 above has no respect for FRAKs, even the ones that root for the same team as he.)

You are right they exist. I would say maybe 25% of SteelerNation could fall in that category. I also tell you that considering the fact we have Millions of Fans , there is till a Nice Chuck of Die Hards. I also think that Diehards only make up about half of ANY Teams fan base. Including the Browns. I think that fandom is basically the same everywhere. I DO however salute the Die Hard portion of the Browns Fan Base. You guys are Loyal under the Magnification of a LONG Horrible Test of your dedication. Not kissing your tails , cuz a lot of you are whiny Dickweeds. lol...but Many Many of you are smart and down to earth and kool (unless Pushed to the Edge by Poor winner~itis ) So , sorry , I dont agree with that tactic. Oh well. Remember that MANY fans are like you say ... but Many others are Like you. Not so bad.

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

It is called being spoiled, and being truly fairweather fans.

Just in case you want to know the different categories of fandom, here you are:

1.Die hard fans: Fans who support their team, their town, win or lose. Good weather or bad. And the fact of the matter is, the Browns have many, many of these. Obviously given what we have been through.

2. Fairweather fans. These are true fans of a team....as long as they are winning and things are going well. (Yes, the Indians had their fare share of these from 1995-2002, and this is what you are describing about certain Steeler fans)

3. FrontRunnersAssKissers. (FRAKs). These are people that glom on to a winning team because they are winning.

Many of your brethren "Steeler fans" are exactly this. Here are a couple of notable examples: 1. LeBron James...claims to be a Yankee fan and a Cowboy fan. Only a freeking FRAK could ever come up with this combination. Notice that those are the teams that were winning pretty big in the 90s when he was younger. (yes, I am fully capable of criticizing one of our own....my nephew was his classmate at St.V/St.M. ) 2. Ben Roethlisberger. Says he was a 49er fan. How does a kid from Findlay, Ohio, halfway between Detroit and Cleveland become a 49er fan? By being a FRAK) (and you know well that many of the FRAK Steeler fans probably jumped off the bandwagon this morning. A real fan of the variety of #1 above has no respect for FRAKs, even the ones that root for the same team as he.)

@kosar_for_president said:

p.s. me and my grampa could name players from that era.

i know what your saying Kosar... We cant help it that we sell out games and People Hate losing so much they stay home and its not like we have 40,000 most are there.(with the exception of Horrid weather). and thats what it is. Perhaps if we became accustom to losing on a somewhat regular basis. our Standards that we Hold the Steelers to would drop and you wouldn't see a s much a drop off. i Dont know , all i know IS The tickets ARE SOLD and have been for Decades. And They ain't Cheap if you wanna buy them.

@djhero said:

Well, ya putz, when the Browns are getting beat 40-3 what do you expect?

And by the way "Steeler nation" is such a mindless cliche. Can you not come up with something original?

@gips said:

AGREE

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

Hey Freak, go back and look at the Steelers losing seasons (I posted the numbers before). Right when they fell out of playoff contention the attendance drops off by like half. Then we got these fags (not you) come into this chat room and talk about the Browns not selling out (which they have now) on Monday night, with probably one of the worst Browns seasons and teams in recent memory.

You as the only non-Retarded Steeler fan, you have to see how Pittsburgh is largely composed of band wagon, toothless, shallow, uneducated fans.

Our Attendance does not drop by half Kosar... Thats BS... Have we had GAMES where the attendance was Low YES.. but we have been sold our for a LONG LONG Time brother. And Sorry i am not buying for ONE minute that statement above . NO way , I would say MAYBE 10% of the Brown fans could name 10 People from those teams. Thats so BS its sad. That was 40 and 50 yrs ago. Now my Dad and Grandpa could name a buncha Steelers from the Bad days... but they seen all that era. Dont overstate and generalize stuff. I totlayy disagree that we are largely composed of band wagon, toothless, shallow, uneducated fans.[ Thats BS too. We have a nice chunk of bandwagoin follers but thats what CHAMPIONSHIPS Bring. IF you ever Win a Super Bowl you all will find out . And i will be laughing my tail off. Thats Life brother. Winning draws ... losing , its the Hard Core.

Freak go look at the attendance for your losing seasons. I am not saying you haven't sold out. Please look at it.

p.s. me and my grampa could name players from that era.

@dj_illness said:

It called pride and for the most part of this past decade, that is all we have.

@dj_illness said:

loyalty is one thing, but at SOME point you have to let your money do the talking.

any idea if the empty-seat protest is still on for tonight?

Well, my money just bought $13 tickets for tonight. And no I am not protesting.

Hey Freak, go back and look at the Steelers losing seasons (I posted the numbers before). Right when they fell out of playoff contention the attendance drops off by like half. Then we got these fags (not you) come into this chat room and talk about the Browns not selling out (which they have now) on Monday night, with probably one of the worst Browns seasons and teams in recent memory.

You as the only non-Retarded Steeler fan, you have to see how Pittsburgh is largely composed of band wagon, toothless, shallow, uneducated fans.

Our Attendance does not drop by half Kosar... Thats BS... Have we had GAMES where the attendance was Low YES.. but we have been sold our for a LONG LONG Time brother. And Sorry i am not buying for ONE minute that statement above . NO way , I would say MAYBE 10% of the Brown fans could name 10 People from those teams. Thats so BS its sad. That was 40 and 50 yrs ago. Now my Dad and Grandpa could name a buncha Steelers from the Bad days... but they seen all that era. Dont overstate and generalize stuff. I totlayy disagree that we are largely composed of band wagon, toothless, shallow, uneducated fans.[ Thats BS too. We have a nice chunk of bandwagoin follers but thats what CHAMPIONSHIPS Bring. IF you ever Win a Super Bowl you all will find out . And i will be laughing my tail off. Thats Life brother. Winning draws ... losing , its the Hard Core.

loyalty is one thing, but at SOME point you have to let your money do the talking.

any idea if the empty-seat protest is still on for tonight?

@the-gipper said:

Given the same conditions with the Steelers, it would probably be only 2-3 years of losing before the same thing happened there. At least, that's the way it was the last time

Gip, I showed this in 4 losing seasons of the Steelers (in a previous post). Even after the year they lost in the Divisional Playoffs in 2002, they went 6-10 in 2003 and by the end of the season they were only at 70% capacity. I went back to 4 other seasons. One season (I think when they went 1-11) they started with sell outs and then the final game of the season they were at 30% capacity. It's just in their nature.

@djhero said:

Except, dumbass, the Browns are sold out. After 10 years of bad football, and the really poor economy, and considering the prices they charge to see a game, it is really somewhat of a miracle that there has been as much support as their is.

Given the same conditions with the Steelers, it would probably be only 2-3 years of losing before the same thing happened there. At least, that's the way it was the last time.

@djhero said:

The NFL is designed so that every team has a chance to win a SB each year. The Browns are still scratching their heads and rear ends after 44 years of not getting it done..

Well, for 40 years you had an incompetent owner running your team. Nice man, Art Rooney, but not a good football guy. It took his son Dan Rooney to come in and really make the Steelers good. We, on the other hand, had a real dickhead running this team for 30+ years who couldn't scratch his ass without it getting in the way of what went on on the field. Now, we may have our own Art Rooney. Randy Lerner seems like a hell of a nice guy, but may not be a very competent football owner.

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

By the way Go Browns Beat BAltiwhore !!!

Well, I did see about 10 years of that era, from about 1961 to 1971. And yes, for a few years, though they could not win much, the Steelers were a "tough out". Primarily when they had John Henry Johnson playing RB for them. In the 60s the Steelers may have won one or two games against the Browns, and JHJ was the main reason.

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

And the AAFC is also a huge part of the NFL lore. Just look at the titles won by the 3 teams left from the AAFC merger, the Browns, the 49ers, and the reconstituted Colts.

Browns 4 NFL titles

49ers 5 NFL titles

Colts 4 NFL titles

13 combined titles

Can you tell me that there are 3 NFL teams that existed in 1950 that combined have won more titles than these 3?

(In thinking, perhaps if you combine the Steelers, Packers and either the Giants or Redskins to come up with like 1 more)

@djhero said:

this year will be 44 Super Bowls that the browns have been absent.. 44 years wow!

steelers have won the most Super Bowls of any team.. sad to see browns fans clinging to the 40's.. It is 2009!!!!

It is simple Karma, baby. Perhaps you need to get religion. Greater Cleveland has 13 pro football titles. STILL more than any other town! Karma has said "you guys need to slow down until another town catches up". Well, no one else YET has caught up. Green Bay needs 1 more, Chicago 2. Let us know when that happens.

@djhero said:

The browns cannot even sell out a MNF game.. this year will be Super Bowl 44 and no Browns team has ever been good enough to even play in one.

Keep counting those backyard football championships..chuckles...

Really? How many backyard champions have you know to come into a game with the defending NFL champions and wiped their asses clean on the field?

Again, I don't know if you have seen my other posts on the subject, but the AAFC titles are not recognized by the NFL ONLY Because of the petty jealousy and resentment of Bert Bell....the owner of that embarrassed NFL defending champ.

Formerly Stone said:

You'll notice that some Browns fans place a great deal of emphasis on people who have a connection to Cleveland or NE Ohio. In one sentence they will make up stuff to defame the Steelers and then pump their chest about Noll and Cowher having Cleveland connections.

Understanding that these fans have very little to be proud of thus they have to grasp on to anything but it amuses me that they don't see just how silly it is.

Its not a good point, because, as I have said, it is the "Cleveland" part that is important.

And just because The Steelers are defamable doesn't mean we cannot be proud of our area's native sons, no matter who they accomplished their tasks with.

In case you haven't paid attention, I personally have also sung the accolades of other succesful native sons of this area, none of whom have a gaddam thing to do with Pittsburgh. Like Don Shula, Ara Parseghian, Bo Schembechler, Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, Les Miles, Jim Tressell, etc., etc.

And, actually, if you also note, I do very little defamation of The Steelers. If you have noticed I have been quite complimentary of their organization. (My opinion that BR may only be the 4th or 5th best QB in the AFC is NOT defamatory, merely arguable).

Steeler fans, on the other hand, are simply too easy a target for defamation. (which is a wrong term, as defamation is only actionable if the statements made are false. To say that many if not most Steeler fans are ignorant, stupid, or a bunch of FRAKS is mere truth. And truth is an absolute defense to defamation!!)