nmills said:

Apparently some of the players didn't think it was funny... or accurate, and have called in the NFL Players Association to look into Mangini's practice protocol.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...g-to-cleveland/

Surely, if it turns out they are more than 2 hours long, Mangini can't say he misspoke or was misunderstood.

Amid a season-long flurry of fines and public complaints from running back Jamal Lewis regarding the extent to which coach Eric Mangini allegedly is overworking the team, the NFL Players Association has decided to find out precisely what is happening in Cleveland.

Jay Glazer of FOX reports that the NFLPA will be heading to town this week to meet with players away from the team facility.

As to Mangini's recent contention that practices last only two hours, Glazer says that players reacted by asking, "What practices is he talking about?" (He's talkin' about practice.)

Glazer also reports that the torn patellar tendon recently suffered by defensive end Keith Grennan during a post-practice "opportunity drill" could be career ending.

So stay tuned. The union is definitely talking a close look at the situation in Cleveland, and it could end up causing even more problems for a franchise under siege.

I'm sure the Ravens and Steelers fans agree with those of you who want Lerner to stay the course with Mangini... but the rest of the NFL owners who know that a strong Browns organization is good for football in general might at some point share their views with Lerner and suggest a fresh start might be worthwhile.

Since Lerner and Mangini himself have established the precedent of trying to get out of their contract with Kokinis, perhaps Lerner can save a bit of money and attract more free agents by using all of this, and Mangini's admission he didn't know about Quinn's contract escalators, to get out of Mangini's contract too.

nmills said:

Not only that - but it was very very very very very very evident our defense needed PRACTICE tackling people so the hitting was necessary. I've never played football or coached it where one could learn the art of tackling without practicing it because 1 of our RBs was complaining football was too tough on him. This is new. It seems like the only mistake Mangini is making here is keeping the overpaid stiff employed. Ozzie knew enough to say this guy's better days are in the rear view mirror 3 years ago. With the exception of 2007, he's been dancing on the tip toes ever since. Yuck!

Today, Jerome Harrison runs with more power regardless of the book cover people think they see. Jamal can't LEAN anymore so he runs straight up with zero leverage. THERE is your reason why the screen pass looked like his best play all preseason. The shotso ankles don't allow Lewis to get to the line of scrimmage like a starting NFL back needs to these days. That being the case, all those muscles people get illusioned by are completely worthless. He doesn't push a pile because he can't. Frankly, I'd prefer Vickers if we want a big back or Jennings.

I REALLY wish Lerner intervened here since he's the guy overpaying the locker-room cancer and there's no GM in-tact.

- Tom F. (We've been burned by so many FA stiffs with crappy attitudes after they got dream contracts noone else was offering them post-upside. Without a GM or a coherent owner Lewis pretty has Mangini hostage seeign our record and all)

It's possible, but no one knows for sure except for the players.

Here's why:

* At the time of the chants, Lewis was in the middle of blasting the media -- not Mangini -- for blowing his remarks out of proportion. The players may have been cheering Lewis for throwing the media under the bus. In my 20 years of covering the NFL, I've seen plenty of instances where players band together to denigrate the media. I've never seen them take a public stance against their head coach.

* The chants were started by tight end Robert Royal, who's a fun-loving, boisterous player who spends every Friday hooting and hollering in the locker room to keep things light. Even after the J-Lew chants, the players spent the next 30 minutes whooping it up, including Shaun Rogers yelling that new linebacker Josh Stamers -- who's ripped like a bodybuilder -- looks like a Calvin Klein model. That was the atmosphere. It's Frisky Friday. Even Royal said afterwards that the players had a good practice and they were just having some fun with J-Lew.

* Not one player who chanted said he was doing so to support Lewis' anti-Mangini rant. Yes, there are probably others who feel the same way about the practices, but the locker room is monitered very closely by members of the media relations staff. Would players really risk their jobs to support a guy who will be gone after this year?

* If Lewis claims he didn't really say those things and the media got a lot of it wrong, what's there to chant about? Of course, Lewis did say all of those things, and they were reported verbatim. It's the oldest trick in the book to go public with your beef and then blame it on the media. He did the same thing last year when he claimed players quit on Romeo Crennel in the Denver game and then backtracked the next day.

* Only a handful of players chanted and many others looked over to see what the fuss was about. At least one veteran was shaking his head with a boys-will-be-boys expression on his face. Lewis remarked that “I got support. Does this look like a divided locker room to y’all? Huh? Does it? No.” But no one ever said the locker room was divided in the first place. And if they'd cheer a player -- a team captain -- for going to the media before going to his coach and then not standing by his remarks, then it's a sad statement on them.

* Could the players have been backing Lewis for blasting his coach? Yes. Could they have been inciting him to blast the media? Yes. Could they have just been horsing around like they do every Friday? Entirely possible.

Imagine that, the media throwing misleading information out to the public to substanciate there one sided views of Mangini.

To: All Browns

Subj: Practice

The current practice schedule will continue until morale improves.

I firmly believe that Lerner needs to fire Mangini and do it right this time, but please put a lid on it, Lewis.

@bonedawg said:

My intent was not to say Lewis isn't a hard worker, Im just questioning his attitude right now. What jamal said basicaly is that he wouldnt mind working hard if they were winning, but since there not whats the point of working hard. Mangini is doing what he beleives in and what he has seen work in the past. Its alot easier to instill deciplin and work ethic you first year, rather then to be soft then try to be a hard ass next year or there after. And for people who say Bellicheck has the credibility to be able to be demanding of his players, I would say this. He wasnt credible when he was in Cleveland and he wasnt credible when he first started to turn around the Pats, that didnt stop him from sticking to what he beleived in and it hasnt stopped mangini from doing what he beleives in. Now sure its alot more easier to buy into a program when your winning, but thats not the hand were dealt. Its a proven method of building a successful orginization, from Parcells to Coughlin, to Bellicheck and most recently Singletary. I would be more concerned if Mangini was second guessing himself on how to run the Browns, but since he's not that means he beleives in the method and has a vision for this team.

@mr.-t said:

Does anyone remember at the end of last season when RAC was trying to getn him his yardage for the bunu$ money. I cant remember what game it was but he had something like 40 carries for 60 yards. oh brother.

My fear of this started when he announced his impending retirement. He has nothing left to play for here. Why would he put forth his full effort? The guy has been a drag on this offense since last year. And this season has been no different. I have always respected J-Lew as a player, but this is rediculous! His claims are ignorant...and his timing is just so convenient for him. 8 games away from retirement and now he decides that he's being worked too hard. What a joke. I wouldn't release him. That's what he wants. Sit him on the bench. Or better yet, put him in the game and give himm 50 carries a game with the backup & third string offensive linemen. Let him get his ass kicked a little bit. Then he'll feel what hard work really is. I can't wait until we have a good RB that actually wants to be here!

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

No Im not kidding, a lot of the younger guys will follow his lead. If they see JL taking plays off and getting away with it they will follow his lead. I have thought that he only showed up his first season here when nobody welse would have him. after the big savage contract he just showed up for the paycheck. Without a running game our offense sucks, any NFL offense will suck without a quality running game. So i say cut the poser, he hasn't shown me anything in almost 2 years now.

Does anyone remember at the end of last season when RAC was trying to getn him his yardage for the bunu$ money. I cant remember what game it was but he had something like 40 carries for 60 yards. oh brother.

@mr.-t said:

Selfish comments like this are part of the cancer that has spread throughout this team.

Cut him now!

I hope you're kidding.

Jamal wants to be released.

Selfish comments like this are part of the cancer that has spread throughout this team.

Cut him now!

@peterbell said:

Mangini has meetings once a week with the captains..Did JL bring it up?

If he brought it up and Mangini explained his reasoning of why he does what he does.(coaches decision)

What is the point JL trying to make by going to the press?

What is he trying to accomplish

Is this helping the team prepare for Monday night

What are Jamal's true motives here?

To get cut so Baltimore will sign him and he can retire on top with the team he never really left.

Guess what: LOSING teams complain about things like this. WINNING teams brush it aside.

Winning is the cure.

Let's start Monday night.

@bonedawg said:

Let's think about this logically.

These guys are paid tons of money to do something that we would all do for a lot less money! Hell, kids play the same game day after day in back yards and schoolyards all over the world. These are grown men complaining about having to practice hard to play a game that makes them very wealthy! Sorry...I don't sympathize. Especially when it comes to a team with a 1-7 record and finished last season with a 4-12 record and whose offense is being outscored by the Saints defense by 2 touchdowns! You don't get better by practicing lightly! If you want to practice lightly, then take up a different sport or start winning! Jamal can be known for his workout ethics. His personal workouts are his choice and I give him credit for it. But, his job requires hard practices. Deal with it or retire now!

And...I think it's hilarious that he is bitching now...after a BYE WEEK! And, as someone already stated, he wouldn't be complaining if we were winning.

nmills said:

Yeah, except the comment is coming from a player that is known around the league for his dedication to practice and conditioning. He had young players come to his home in the offseason just to go through his program. Now if a player that has one of the most intense workout ethics in the league is saying practice is too much, it might be too much. Maybe mangini should strap on some pads and go through his own practices, I bet there would be some "adjustments to the program" after that.

Zombo said:

Zombo

I think that's what he wants. Some other team will sign him and pay him the small amount he is owed; probably Baltimore so he can retire there. He seems to be conducting himself like a guy who wants to be cut. I like Jamal but at this point in his career, I can't blame him for not wanting to play for a team that is rebuilding. He is a likely HOFer why would he want his career to end like this?

@brownindian said:

You are right about the WR's/TE's dropping the ball, i thought it was goners after BE left but nopes !! im still confused about that one.

If "conservative" leads to the AFC's leading rusher then I'd be all for it.

@earl34 said:

I don't have a problem with the criticism of Daboll but I will point out a minor point with respect to a previous first time coordinator, Brian Schottenheimer. Schotty was criticised horribly since taking over the Jets offense three plus years ago. He's grown into that role but the point I want to make is that I thought that the criticism of the playcalling in NY was unfair. You can't go deep on every play and sometimes you have to impose your will on the defense even when they know what's coming. Coaches need players to make plays.

When receivers drop balls or running backs fumble, it doesn't matter what the play call was. They were in position to make a play and they didn't.

To quote Hank Hill re: the Cowboys: "All Troy can do is get it there..."

B. Schotty has been around a lot of good headcoaches and grown into the job, His playcalling is still conservative (for which he gets criticized) and he is still not the best OC for the Jets. Daboll needs way more experience before getting this stint. Also to Schottys advantage he is working with Bill Calahan who is there to guide him. Daboll has no one to do that.

You are right about the WR's/TE's dropping the ball, i thought it was goners after BE left but nopes !! im still confused about that one.