@nobuo said:

Yea it has nothing to do with the press. They handled the Mangini situation so well.

@westside-steve said:

Holmgren doesn't seem like a guy about to be bullied by a special teams player on his first day on the job.

This.

Holmgren offered him a pretty big raise, and now he's screaming to the media and saying he's not gonna play? Yeah that's the way you get the new President on your side. He'll be lucky if Holmgren doesn't withdraw the offer and make him play/sit with his current contract.

Someone mentioned Holmgren might not run the WildDawg. If he doesn't, then really all Cribbs is is a very good kick returner, and I don't care how good they are, you don't pay someone who returns kicks like a #1 WR. And last I checked, Cribbs is not a good WR.

@sisky-fringo said:

Respect?

Why not?

If the team agreed to the trade.

I don't much respect holdouts.

I'd hate his guts but that's because I hate Squeelers.

And I want at least a higher #2 or a #1.

I just don't like players who make a deal and screw ya.

I don't hear many who underperform begging to take a cut.

We give him 4 M and teams kick away from him how big a refund do we get?

But sure I'd like to see Cribbs paid some more but I hate the crying to the press. That's all.

Holmgren doesn't seem like a guy about to be bullied by a special teams player on his first day on the job.

WSS

WSS[/b]

@bonedawg said:

NFL contracts are complex, but that is the basic situation for Cribbs as I understand it.

decent analogy, but to make it more relative the McD's contract would be 3 yrs...so 2 yrs 10 months to go....and the good counter workers actually make about $20+...so the $12 offered still sucks in his eyes.

this is all uncharted territory, including Cribbs' NFL duties on the team and what to compare him to. how it ends up shaking out could set precedents and even impact future player contracts moving forward.

one thing everyone seems to be missing (maybe it wasn't known when they posted) is Dawn Aponte was FIRM in her offer of 1.4 M...NO WIGGLE ROOM, NO COUNTER OFFER. she said it's 1.4 M now, 1.4 M in March, and it'll be 1.4 M in August...and Holmgren agrees.

now that's pretty cut and dry if you ask me and explains why Cribbs and his agents are now playing every card available to them (to little avail). many of you yelling "it's a NEGOTIATION folks" or who feel Cribbs is acting rash may want to factor this in.

Aponte and MH left Cribbs' camp w/ no opportunity for a counter-offer...but this might be due to Cribbs' agents pushing too hard, too early. again, oopsie!

Steeler SChuck said:

He's likely the only stains player with a future, and he's still a stains player - hence the conflict.

Regards

....an'at

.

you forgot about joe thomas you know the guy that owns Harrison every time they play

Alex Mack is probably already a top 10 C in the NFL, Thomas is easilly the best LT in the NFL

@atenears said:

Hester

RECEIVING: 128 catches for 1721-yrds, 8-TD's

Cribbs

RECEIVING: 36 catches for 288-yrds, 2-TD's

Hester

PUNT RETURN: 145 rtrns for 1636-yrds (11.3 avg), 7-TD's

Cribbs

PUNT RETURN: 103 rtrns for 1141-yrds (7.9 avg), 2-TD's

Hester

KICK RETURN: 101 rtrns for 2297-yrds (22.7 avg), 4-TD's

Cribbs

KICK RETURN: 262 rtrns for 7049-yrds (26.6 avg), 8-TD's

Hester

RUSHING: 18 carries for 50-yrds, 0-TD's

Cribbs

RUSHING: 95 carries for 620-yrds, 2-TD's

Where does Cribbs fit-in in comparison to Hester? That is the million dollar question.

Now ask yourselves, how long do players last as Punt & Kick Returners?

How important are ANY yards, no matter where they come from? Cribbs totals 9098-yrds, Hester just 5704-yrds from above totals.

Do you think Holmgren will continue to run the WildDawg?

plus you have to include his phenomenal coverage on ST, and his great perimeter blocking as a WR helped allow Harrison to have the season he did>>>both HUGE contributions often overlooked. he eats up two blockers on ST coverages and if given single coverage he makes a huge play every time.

i'm torn on this one. i don't like Cribbs taking it public so soon after the season, yet i do feel like 1.4M is a lowball offer for a guy who threatens to shorten his career with lights out play every snap for us.

i wouldn't complain one iota if he was overpaid buy a lot, not one bit.

you won't find a Steeler fan that isn't scared to death of the guy or that doesn't respect his game.

here's an interesting question:

if the Steelers offered him $4 M and the Browns agreed to a trade, would you still respect him?

it's a slippery slope for sure.

He's likely the only stains player with a future, and he's still a stains player - hence the conflict.

Regards

....an'at

.

@maintainin125 said:

I wouldn't consider signing that contract a mistake. If he wouldn't of signed it he might not even be in the NFL today. Remember nobody wanted him on draft day. Chances are he would be busting his arse putting that college education to work. The ONLY reason I feel he deserves more money is not cause he's the best special teams player in the league but because he's playing on offense ALONG with special teams. He signed up to return kicks and they have him doing alot more then that now. With more playing time comes more high risk activities. If he didn't leave the bench execpt for kickoffs I would say dont pay him, he's just doing what he signed up for BUT now they have him playing 3 other positions so there's a bigger chance he could get crippled for the rest of his life.

@joesixpat said:

He already did that when he signed his original contract.

@joesixpat said:

Why would the Brwons agree to pay star money to a guy who will not see the ball drift his way?

It isn't a matter of why anyway.

It was his agent that signed him up for the security that an undrafted free agent wants.

WSS

@maintainin125 said:

or what? Cribbs cant do anything but ruin his career he pretty much has to take what the browns offer him or chances are his career is done because just because he demands a trade doesnt mean it will happen

@lambdo said:

2.5 is reasonable and affordable for a guy that can be a game breaker and makes as many big plays as he does and did all season..if he is not a WR then go get one..Having Josh Cribbs on our team is an asset period.

PAY HIM by giving negociating a larger signing bonus ..a little more on the salary and move on... we've certainly paid more for less talent in the past

if he's just going to be a STer then he should get paid STer money which is about 1-1.5 mil max

Cribbs is also asking for more then the 2,5 you mentioned

@bonedawg said:

NFL contracts are complex, but that is the basic situation for Cribbs as I understand it.

Yes Cribbs made a mistake by signing that contract which did not seem like a mistake at the time. Right now though Cribbs has proven to us and everyone that he deserves to be making more money. You can't be serious with the doubling of his salary 1.4 millions in the NFL thats chump change and everyone knows it. Free agent or not Holmgren would be better served by paying this man what he deserves immediately.

2.5 is reasonable and affordable for a guy that can be a game breaker and makes as many big plays as he does and did all season..if he is not a WR then go get one..

Having Josh Cribbs on our team is an asset period.

PAY HIM by giving negociating a larger signing bonus ..a little more on the salary and move on... we've certainly paid more for less talent in the past

@tdubs said:

You clearly have a limited understanding of how contracts work in the NFL and probably football in general. Ok, let's go with your McD's analogy. Tdub, say you sign a 1 year contract with McD's to work the french fry machine for $6 an hour. After 2 months on the job, you find out you are a badass at kicking out french fries while those lazy bitches at the counter make $9 and hour for doing nothing. You go to your boss and say, "I am the baddest french fry making motherf-er on the planet. I bust out 20 trays and hour while all other fry makers can only do 13 trays. I want a raise to $18 an hour (roughly the equivalent of cribbs)" Manager pulls out your contract where it states that you signed at 6 bucks and you are contractually obligated at that rate. The contract also states you cannot go over to the burger king across the street and flip fries no matter if they want to pay you $100 an hour until the remaining 10 months on your contract is served. Your manager is even nice enough to pay you $12 (what browns offered) because he admits that you are pretty badass at flipping fries. If you don't like it, you can 1. quit (sit out for the rest of the contract) 2. get ur ass back to the fry cooker and serve your 10 months. Now your manager can shop you to burger king if he can get great value for you, but that isn't up to you. It isn't McDonald's fault that you signed on at 6 bucks an hour for longer than you wanted to be under contract. It is your fault and whoever is advising you (probably your mom if you work at McDonalds).

NFL contracts are complex, but that is the basic situation for Cribbs as I understand it.

@westside-steve said:

League minimum PLUS $250.000 for each touchdown.

WSS

I think Cribbs is interested in a big guarantee - not incentives. Why would he agree to having absolutely no financial security in case of injury?

He has limited options. He can sit out and forgo his paycheck. Given a low paycheck and risk of injury by playing this is a card he might be willing to pay for a time. But that's unlikely to force a trade and even if he does get traded, the "cost" whatever the next team gives up to get him will be deducted from the salary that his new team pays.

Or he can come back to the negotiating table and make a counter offer - but he needs to recognize he won't get the same value as if he were a free agent.

The one thing he won't be able to do is to threaten Holmgren into laying down for him. Holmgren knows that will cause major harm in the long-term. Mangini made the mistake of caving to player demands in the past and it haunts him today - players and agents know they can manipulate him.

Holmgren would rather allow Cribbs to sit himself down and take no money than send a message to other players that he's a pushover.

Someone will eventually explain all of this to Cribbs and he'll be back playing for the Browns next season (though I could see this issue going on well into Training Camp).

IMO he should be glad he is getting his salary doubled, I'd love to make $1.4 million a year...

@peterbell said:

This is Holmgrens call now, 0 to do with Mangini.

No FA's?..The cap was a mess, we couldn't afford any big time FA's..thanks Phil S.

The "opportunity periods" were for younger players not vets..How did that work out for us at the end of the year?

Quinn would have gotten his esculators if he didn't get hurt..AGAIN..we should pay him per completion..lol

FYI..Cribbs has 3 YEARS left..no one held a gun to his head to sign the last deal..really

Cribbs is a great player ,but this issue is Cribbs fault

Wow, where to begin?

First of all, the only mention of Mangini I made was in regards to his practice sessions. Where did I mention that the Cribbs situation was Mangini's issue?

Secondly, an analyst on my local sports talk radio was the one who said that Mangini's extra sessions where making waves with potential free agents. If you can't see how they would, then that's on you.

3rd, Quinn's injury didn't prevent him from hitting esCALators, Mangini giving him the quick hook did. Everyone knows that Anderson would have started the entire rest of the year if it wasn't for the pressure put on Mangini to put him back in after Anderson stunk it up.

I don't care how much longer Cribbs has left, pay him what he's worth. What makes the Browns better, if Cribbs plays above or below his pay grade? Are you seriously faulting Cribbs for improving his game to deserve a raise? If that's the case, then you'll only get players playing to the level of their contract and not trying to improve. Cribbs signed a contract at his production level, he currently is exceeding it, he deserves a raise. Are the Browns obligated to give him one? No, he did sign a contract. But that's a great message to send to your team, "We don't reward your improvement".

Apply this situation to your own life. You work at McDonalds (for the sake of argument) making $6/hour. You do twice the work of someone making $9/hour. How happy are you? McDonald's doesn't have to pay you anymore, you signed a contract. But you're either going to demand a raise, find another job, or work down to your $6/wage. Same thing here.

The Browns have 1 good thing going for them, and they're ready to let him walk over 1.1mil (according to the article). If the Browns are having trouble selling tickets now, let's see them sell tickets when the main attraction is friggin' Alex Mack. Cribbs is worth the money.

League minimum PLUS $250.000 for each touchdown.

WSS

http://fans.kcchiefs.com/service/displayDi...0215&ac=new

@peterbell said:

The "opportunity periods" were for younger players not vets..How did that work out for us at the end of the year?

And lets not forget that we paid RAC 4 mil last year (4yrs left on contract) to sit on his ass and recover from hip surgery. Then if we fire E.M. there is another few million out the window.

So we could have millions of dollars tied up in coaches that are getting paid to just go away. The only hope we have of getting any relief from this is hope that both E.M. and RAC get another job this year.

Is RAC going to take a job with the chiefs for less money or take the 16mil over the next few years, and the amount of potential coaching vacancy's that are out there this year, I don't see E.M. finding a new home, so we could possibly be paying 2 ex coaches millions to sit. WTF!

But lets really low ball our offer too our "proven" best player. It makes no sense.