Five In Five Out
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@mike-h said:
Browns in, Pisspuke to the cellar.
Endymion cries himself to sleep.
While you may hate Pittsburgh's sports teams, I do not inherently hate Cleveland's sports teams. I would have no problem seeing the Browns make it into the play-offs. However, I do not believe the Browns are capable of making the play-offs in 2012.
Endymion said:
While you may hate Pittsburgh's sports teams, I do not inherently hate Cleveland's sports teams. I would have no problem seeing the Browns make it into the play-offs. However, I do not believe the Browns are capable of making the play-offs in 2012.
When the Browns win 8-10 Super Bowls here you will begin hating them
I would hope, as I said, talent wise that they have closed the gap to a potential playoff caliber team. Yet, the fact is, so much of their talent is young. A three year veteran on this team is an old timer. At least half their starters will be first or second year players.
I would hope that starting a year from now they would be a constant playoff threat.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Well, just stay tuned. this is the same kind of shit that happened when Rutigliano handed off to Stinkenhiemer. Each year to most it seemed like a continuation, but it wsn't. Marty inherited a potent offense and he slowly ruined it.
If you don't think there is a HUGE intensity difference between Cohwer's Steelers and Tomlins, then I don't think you are very astute. The Steelers D has become downright easy. Save for Harrision bitchslapping our players, the Steelers D no longer strikes fear in people. They are no longer that difficult to score on and I can't remember the last time the D was credited with winning on a day when the offense stuttered.
They are woefully down in takeaways, something the Cowher teams were stellar in.
Trust me, Tomlin is a Putney Swope, a phony. This guy is lowering the Steelers a bit more each and every year.
The Browns will sweep the Steelers in 2012.
I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns for TDs. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
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Here's how I see the Browns:
If Richardson lives up to his billing as an elite running back (excluding Jim Brown's analysis), the Browns will have a strong running game this year. The Browns will be able to wear opponents down with the ground game, and probably keep most games close. Your defense has very good pass coverage, which should keep the opponent's scoring from getting too out of hand, most of the time. However, the Browns will struggle against elite QBs who will still be able to find open recievers, and get their team up by 10 or more points.
The Browns major problem on defense is stopping the run. Just as the Browns will wear down opposing defenses with their run game, the opponent will do the same to the Browns defense. If a team can get up on the Browns by 10 points or more, the Browns do not have the QB/recievers to pull the team out of the fire.
Weeden has a strong arm, but has not demonstrated great decision making under blitz pressure. The skill set between McCoy and Weeden is vastly different. I don't see Shurmur as being able to adapt his style on the fly between both QBs. Weeden isn't going to learn much sitting behind Colt, so he's got to play Weeden. If he doesn't plan to use Weeden day 1, your offense is going to be a complete disaster if he tries to insert him mid-season, because the line timing will be way off. Further, despite his age, I think Weeden needs to spend his first year on the sidelines to reach his full potential, but the Browns don't have that luxury.
Weeden will struggle early on, adapting from the college to the pros. Shurmur must take the gameplan used by other successful rookie QBs, and limit Weeden's attempts to like 15-20 per game. Since McCoy and Weeden are so different, you absolutely don't want Weeden injured for any length of time if at all. However, if you fall behind and expect Weeden to bail the team out with his arm, he will get beat up and experience alot of negative plays. Too many negative plays and Browns fans will not be receptive to him, which will further hamper his development and the Browns chances to be a contender during Weeden's stay.
While the Browns fans want a play-off appearance this year, the coaching staff should not approach this year with that mindset. This year they have to develop Weeden. They have to get your QB prepared for next year. Its' more important to develop Weeden than to get to the play-offs. They will develop Weeden by limiting his attempts per game, and worrying about him getting his timing and defensive reads down than in winning games. If they properly develop Weeden this year, your team will be a play-off contender in 2013 and beyond.
I did not read Dan Simmons Flashback series, the only other series I read from him was the Illium series
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Well, just stay tuned. this is the same kind of shit that happened when Rutigliano handed off to Stinkenhiemer. Each year to most it seemed like a continuation, but it wsn't. Marty inherited a potent offense and he slowly ruined it.
If you don't think there is a HUGE intensity difference between Cohwer's Steelers and Tomlins, then I don't think you are very astute. The Steelers D has become downright easy. Save for Harrision bitchslapping our players, the Steelers D no longer strikes fear in people. They are no longer that difficult to score on and I can't remember the last time the D was credited with winning on a day when the offense stuttered.
They are woefully down in takeaways, something the Cowher teams were stellar in.
Trust me, Tomlin is a Putney Swope, a phony. This guy is lowering the Steelers a bit more each and every year.
The Browns will sweep the Steelers in 2012.
I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns for TDs. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
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Here's how I see the Browns:
If Richardson lives up to his billing as an elite running back (excluding Jim Brown's analysis), the Browns will have a strong running game this year. The Browns will be able to wear opponents down with the ground game, and probably keep most games close. Your defense has very good pass coverage, which should keep the opponent's scoring from getting too out of hand, most of the time. However, the Browns will struggle against elite QBs who will still be able to find open recievers, and get their team up by 10 or more points.
The Browns major problem on defense is stopping the run. Just as the Browns will wear down opposing defenses with their run game, the opponent will do the same to the Browns defense. If a team can get up on the Browns by 10 points or more, the Browns do not have the QB/recievers to pull the team out of the fire.
Weeden has a strong arm, but has not demonstrated great decision making under blitz pressure. The skill set between McCoy and Weeden is vastly different. I don't see Shurmur as being able to adapt his style on the fly between both QBs. Weeden isn't going to learn much sitting behind Colt, so he's got to play Weeden. If he doesn't plan to use Weeden day 1, your offense is going to be a complete disaster if he tries to insert him mid-season, because the line timing will be way off. Further, despite his age, I think Weeden needs to spend his first year on the sidelines to reach his full potential, but the Browns don't have that luxury.
Weeden will struggle early on, adapting from the college to the pros. Shurmur must take the gameplan used by other successful rookie QBs, and limit Weeden's attempts to like 15-20 per game. Since McCoy and Weeden are so different, you absolutely don't want Weeden injured for any length of time if at all. However, if you fall behind and expect Weeden to bail the team out with his arm, he will get beat up and experience alot of negative plays. Too many negative plays and Browns fans will not be receptive to him, which will further hamper his development and the Browns chances to be a contender during Weeden's stay.
While the Browns fans want a play-off appearance this year, the coaching staff should not approach this year with that mindset. This year they have to develop Weeden. They have to get your QB prepared for next year. Its' more important to develop Weeden than to get to the play-offs. They will develop Weeden by limiting his attempts per game, and worrying about him getting his timing and defensive reads down than in winning games. If they properly develop Weeden this year, your team will be a play-off contender in 2013 and beyond.
I did not read Dan Simmons Flashback series, the only other series I read from him was the Illium series
Endymion said:
Here's how I see the Browns:
If Richardson lives up to his billing as an elite running back (excluding Jim Brown's analysis), the Browns will have a strong running game this year. The Browns will be able to wear opponents down with the ground game, and probably keep most games close. Your defense has very good pass coverage, which should keep the opponent's scoring from getting too out of hand, most of the time. However, the Browns will struggle against elite QBs who will still be able to find open recievers, and get their team up by 10 or more points.
The Browns major problem on defense is stopping the run. Just as the Browns will wear down opposing defenses with their run game, the opponent will do the same to the Browns defense. If a team can get up on the Browns by 10 points or more, the Browns do not have the QB/recievers to pull the team out of the fire.
Weeden has a strong arm, but has not demonstrated great decision making under blitz pressure. The skill set between McCoy and Weeden is vastly different. I don't see Shurmur as being able to adapt his style on the fly between both QBs. Weeden isn't going to learn much sitting behind Colt, so he's got to play Weeden. If he doesn't plan to use Weeden day 1, your offense is going to be a complete disaster if he tries to insert him mid-season, because the line timing will be way off. Further, despite his age, I think Weeden needs to spend his first year on the sidelines to reach his full potential, but the Browns don't have that luxury.
Weeden will struggle early on, adapting from the college to the pros. Shurmur must take the gameplan used by other successful rookie QBs, and limit Weeden's attempts to like 15-20 per game. Since McCoy and Weeden are so different, you absolutely don't want Weeden injured for any length of time if at all. However, if you fall behind and expect Weeden to bail the team out with his arm, he will get beat up and experience alot of negative plays. Too many negative plays and Browns fans will not be receptive to him, which will further hamper his development and the Browns chances to be a contender during Weeden's stay.
While the Browns fans want a play-off appearance this year, the coaching staff should not approach this year with that mindset. This year they have to develop Weeden. They have to get your QB prepared for next year. Its' more important to develop Weeden than to get to the play-offs. They will develop Weeden by limiting his attempts per game, and worrying about him getting his timing and defensive reads down than in winning games. If they properly develop Weeden this year, your team will be a play-off contender in 2013 and beyond.
All plausible, except that if rookies like Dalton and Newton and others can be successful their first year there is no reason to think that an intelligent, mature guy like Weeden can't. Who knows.
I did not read Dan Simmons Flashback series, the only other series I read from him was the Illium series
I didn't know it was a series. I will have to check that out.
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I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
Lebeau is in his late 70's, but when I see him on the sidelines I swear he's maybe around 55. Tomlin finding a replacement for LeBeau will be a major test for him, although they could have a coach already on the roster that will move up to DC when LeBeau retires.FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
And yes I did forget about Lipps, but I googled up his stats and he had 3 punt return TDs in his first 2 years, but didn't have another return TD the rest of his career. I just found it odd that despite the fact that the Steelers are rarely short on talent, they never seem to find a decent return guy. Tomlin has more success doing that in his few years than Noll or Cowher ever had.
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Lebeau is in his late 70's, but when I see him on the sidelines I swear he's maybe around 55. Tomlin finding a replacement for LeBeau will be a major test for him, although they could have a coach already on the roster that will move up to DC when LeBeau retires.FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
And yes I did forget about Lipps, but I googled up his stats and he had 3 punt return TDs in his first 2 years, but didn't have another return TD the rest of his career. I just found it odd that despite the fact that the Steelers are rarely short on talent, they never seem to find a decent return guy. Tomlin has more success doing that in his few years than Noll or Cowher ever had.
Lebeau is in his late 70's, but when I see him on the sidelines I swear he's maybe around 55. Tomlin finding a replacement for LeBeau will be a major test for him, although they could have a coach already on the roster that will move up to DC when LeBeau retires.
Well, per the Homo, the Steelers have a sure fire Hall of Fame replacement for LeBeau in Keith Butler, the same way they had a Hall of Fame replacement for Terry Bradshaw in Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, and Kordell Stewart.
And yes I did forget about Lipps, but I googled up his stats and he had 3 punt return TDs in his first 2 years, but didn't have another return TD the rest of his career. I just found it odd that despite the fact that the Steelers are rarely short on talent, they never seem to find a decent return guy. Tomlin has more success doing that in his few years than Noll or Cowher ever had.
I think that Lipps having 3 TDs is a pretty good amount. The Browns have had some outstanding kick returners with the likes of Cribbs and Eric Metcalf, but beyond that they weren't all that until you go back to Leroy Kelly.
We liked Dino Hall and the Ice Cube...but were they really all that great?
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