Wait for WR until the 3rd round
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On my phone and the mobile version doesnt have a quote button. This is back at Tim Couch.
Who are the guys you see as frachise possibilities at WR, CB, ILB, and OT?
I've been pretty high on Christian Jones as well. I think he has the most upside of the mid round ILBs. Seattle has turned some mid to late rounders into stars, but thats more of an exception to the norm for those picks. Are there hidden gems, yeah, but chances are slim on those guys. I've named my mid round WR and late round FS that I think are franchisers, I think Dakota Dozier could be highly productive at guard (not sure about how he'd do in a zone blocking scheme though), but I cant see any cornerbacks with the quickness and top end speed to be a stud, unless they're short, skinny and have short arms and small hands, which makes them a jump ball candidate.
If Bortles is our guy (the one guy I would actually be okay with at 4 for reasons you have mentioned and I think he has the highest ceiling), I could get on board with passing on Gilbert.
I'm on my phone as well. If you tap on the response you want to quote, a quote button will pop up at the bottom of said response.
The way I see it, there's two types of franchise players: the once in a lifetime athletic talents that would be franchise guys anywhere (Megatron, AP, Peyton Manning) and then the other extremely talented guys who fit perfectly into a system and that's how they excel, but turn in lackluster performances when they go elsewhere (Revis, Sidney Rice, Julius Peppers).
Every team needs a couple of the former, which we have (Gordon, Thomas). But successful teams really have a roster full of the latter, and we do not.
The guys I have tabbed as franchise guys could see very long and successful careers in Cleveland because of their versatility and raw athletic talent, which are things that Pettine valued and utilized on his prior defenses.
I believe Jones can be a franchise ILB. He has the size and athleticism to play both inside as well as outside, and has the coverage skills as well as pass rush experience that help reinforce that fact. If versatility is the name of the game, there's none better than Jones. Pettine's base D for a while was the 4-3 under, which can easily turn into a 3-4 or even a 46 with simple shifts. Jones can line up at OLB in the under and then we stand Sheard up and Jones would shift to ILB. Honestly, outside of Bortles, Jones is my second favorite player in this draft. He's a downhill tackler with sideline to sideline speed. He could be had in the second round easily.
I also believe Stanley Jean-Baptiste has the potential to be franchise player, if not at CB then at FS. At 6'3, he's a prototypical safety body, but has the ball skills to play at CB. He only started 17 games for Nebraska, so he has a lot to learn, but he's a very promising athlete who has Sherman level potential. It's true that most corners in this draft are more zone geared, but SJB possesses the size and physicality to play press-man in more blitz-happy, quicker defenses. I don't ever think he'll be a lock down corner, but he'll likely be a first wave acquisition level FA if he ever hit the market. Marcus is another mid round corner that could find success in the NFL. He's more of a zone corner as well but is physical at the point of attack and could be a solid pickup.
I also could see Antonio Richardson as a franchise level RT. Unfortunately, he's less suited for a zone scheme than he is a power scheme, but he possesses enough quickness and agility to play in the zone if asked. He's a player that saw his stock fall because of an injury and is a third round prospect based on LT rankings, but is one of the better RT's in the draft. Adding Richardson would enable us to move Schwartz inside, as he's a more natural G. Schwartz is a more prototypical guard size and possesses great football acumen, his natural fit may be more of a zone scheme.
As for WR, I think there are a number of solid prospects we could nab at #26 or in the second, namely Kelvin Benjamin or Allen Robinson. Benjamin's drops are concerning, but he possesses the size to be utilized similar to Alshon Jeffery, a red zone target that beats receivers in the air. Benjamin does everything you'd want, he fights for jump balls, tracks back to the ball, runs decent routes, goes over the middle or outside, and blocks. Unfortunately, he drops easily caught balls and also runs before catching the ball. Benjamin can easily be a #1 receiver and can possibly be had in the second round.
Robinson is slightly smaller but has great vertical and is more of an open field threat. Robinson could easily be a lower tier #1 if he can become an unquestioned expert at beating the press, as he doesn't possess top tier speed. As it stands, Robinson possesses all the skills to be a solid #2.
I also love Shayne Skov. He's a guy that could be a vocal point of the defense and is a downhill tackler. Not the most athletic but can develop into a solid LB with the right coaching.
I'm on my phone as well. If you tap on the response you want to quote, a quote button will pop up at the bottom of said response.
The way I see it, there's two types of franchise players: the once in a lifetime athletic talents that would be franchise guys anywhere (Megatron, AP, Peyton Manning) and then the other extremely talented guys who fit perfectly into a system and that's how they excel, but turn in lackluster performances when they go elsewhere (Revis, Sidney Rice, Julius Peppers).
Every team needs a couple of the former, which we have (Gordon, Thomas). But successful teams really have a roster full of the latter, and we do not.
The guys I have tabbed as franchise guys could see very long and successful careers in Cleveland because of their versatility and raw athletic talent, which are things that Pettine valued and utilized on his prior defenses.
I believe Jones can be a franchise ILB. He has the size and athleticism to play both inside as well as outside, and has the coverage skills as well as pass rush experience that help reinforce that fact. If versatility is the name of the game, there's none better than Jones. Pettine's base D for a while was the 4-3 under, which can easily turn into a 3-4 or even a 46 with simple shifts. Jones can line up at OLB in the under and then we stand Sheard up and Jones would shift to ILB. Honestly, outside of Bortles, Jones is my second favorite player in this draft. He's a downhill tackler with sideline to sideline speed. He could be had in the second round easily.
I also believe Stanley Jean-Baptiste has the potential to be franchise player, if not at CB then at FS. At 6'3, he's a prototypical safety body, but has the ball skills to play at CB. He only started 17 games for Nebraska, so he has a lot to learn, but he's a very promising athlete who has Sherman level potential. It's true that most corners in this draft are more zone geared, but SJB possesses the size and physicality to play press-man in more blitz-happy, quicker defenses. I don't ever think he'll be a lock down corner, but he'll likely be a first wave acquisition level FA if he ever hit the market. Marcus is another mid round corner that could find success in the NFL. He's more of a zone corner as well but is physical at the point of attack and could be a solid pickup.
I also could see Antonio Richardson as a franchise level RT. Unfortunately, he's less suited for a zone scheme than he is a power scheme, but he possesses enough quickness and agility to play in the zone if asked. He's a player that saw his stock fall because of an injury and is a third round prospect based on LT rankings, but is one of the better RT's in the draft. Adding Richardson would enable us to move Schwartz inside, as he's a more natural G. Schwartz is a more prototypical guard size and possesses great football acumen, his natural fit may be more of a zone scheme.
As for WR, I think there are a number of solid prospects we could nab at #26 or in the second, namely Kelvin Benjamin or Allen Robinson. Benjamin's drops are concerning, but he possesses the size to be utilized similar to Alshon Jeffery, a red zone target that beats receivers in the air. Benjamin does everything you'd want, he fights for jump balls, tracks back to the ball, runs decent routes, goes over the middle or outside, and blocks. Unfortunately, he drops easily caught balls and also runs before catching the ball. Benjamin can easily be a #1 receiver and can possibly be had in the second round.
Robinson is slightly smaller but has great vertical and is more of an open field threat. Robinson could easily be a lower tier #1 if he can become an unquestioned expert at beating the press, as he doesn't possess top tier speed. As it stands, Robinson possesses all the skills to be a solid #2.
I also love Shayne Skov. He's a guy that could be a vocal point of the defense and is a downhill tackler. Not the most athletic but can develop into a solid LB with the right coaching.
Found the button. Thanks for the tip.
Jones - I'm in full agreement. Very good chance he is there at pick 3b; I've even seen later. He's a guy I would trade up from our first 4th rounder for. Lots of guys to be had in the 3rd.
SJB - I'm iffy here. I considered him and Jaylen Watkins. I bumped Watkins over SJB because of everything buy height. Watkins is faster, quicker, and more fluid, but lacks the size (weight) to be a year one impact. He's one I looked at as a draft, strengthen, further develop, and put in after a year kind of guy. SJB wins the height category, has the ability to be more disruptive at the line, but I fear he'd be a double move target with the "stiff hips" I read about.
Richardson - I think he'd be a good third round pick up. He's usually in most all of my mocks. Seems like a value pick due to injuries, as you've mentioned - I believe stress fracture concerns? With McQuistan coming in, he could develop for the first season with some game time when needed and make a push to take over the role at RT if he can perform in the zone.
Benjamin and Robinson - You hit my main two concerns. I'd take Robinson over Benjamin, but both scare me a bit. Robinson for the speed aspect, but we have two burners already, so he may just be a good fit for us. Benjamin scares me the most of all the top receivers, for a reason I have never seen talked about. Did you watch him at the combine? If not, I suggest you watch his 40 yard dash. Don't focus on time, but look at his footwork coming off the line. I get he's in a down position, but I have to say that I've never seen a receiver with footwork like that in the first 8-10 steps. If I'm a coach, I'm jamming him at the line every down...anything to keep him from accelerating. Seem like a guy who can be easily neutralized, despite his size.
Skov - I liked him until I looked more into Jones. Haven't turned back. Quality prospect, though.
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What do you think about Jaylen Watkins, Donte Moncrief, Donte Johnson (as a safety), and Dakota Dozier (I believe I once read that Dozier is capable of playing center - I'll have to look that back up)? And, if we took QB at 4 (lets say Bortles falls), who would you take at 26 and 35?
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I'm on my phone as well. If you tap on the response you want to quote, a quote button will pop up at the bottom of said response.
The way I see it, there's two types of franchise players: the once in a lifetime athletic talents that would be franchise guys anywhere (Megatron, AP, Peyton Manning) and then the other extremely talented guys who fit perfectly into a system and that's how they excel, but turn in lackluster performances when they go elsewhere (Revis, Sidney Rice, Julius Peppers).
Every team needs a couple of the former, which we have (Gordon, Thomas). But successful teams really have a roster full of the latter, and we do not.
The guys I have tabbed as franchise guys could see very long and successful careers in Cleveland because of their versatility and raw athletic talent, which are things that Pettine valued and utilized on his prior defenses.
I believe Jones can be a franchise ILB. He has the size and athleticism to play both inside as well as outside, and has the coverage skills as well as pass rush experience that help reinforce that fact. If versatility is the name of the game, there's none better than Jones. Pettine's base D for a while was the 4-3 under, which can easily turn into a 3-4 or even a 46 with simple shifts. Jones can line up at OLB in the under and then we stand Sheard up and Jones would shift to ILB. Honestly, outside of Bortles, Jones is my second favorite player in this draft. He's a downhill tackler with sideline to sideline speed. He could be had in the second round easily.
I also believe Stanley Jean-Baptiste has the potential to be franchise player, if not at CB then at FS. At 6'3, he's a prototypical safety body, but has the ball skills to play at CB. He only started 17 games for Nebraska, so he has a lot to learn, but he's a very promising athlete who has Sherman level potential. It's true that most corners in this draft are more zone geared, but SJB possesses the size and physicality to play press-man in more blitz-happy, quicker defenses. I don't ever think he'll be a lock down corner, but he'll likely be a first wave acquisition level FA if he ever hit the market. Marcus is another mid round corner that could find success in the NFL. He's more of a zone corner as well but is physical at the point of attack and could be a solid pickup.
I also could see Antonio Richardson as a franchise level RT. Unfortunately, he's less suited for a zone scheme than he is a power scheme, but he possesses enough quickness and agility to play in the zone if asked. He's a player that saw his stock fall because of an injury and is a third round prospect based on LT rankings, but is one of the better RT's in the draft. Adding Richardson would enable us to move Schwartz inside, as he's a more natural G. Schwartz is a more prototypical guard size and possesses great football acumen, his natural fit may be more of a zone scheme.
As for WR, I think there are a number of solid prospects we could nab at #26 or in the second, namely Kelvin Benjamin or Allen Robinson. Benjamin's drops are concerning, but he possesses the size to be utilized similar to Alshon Jeffery, a red zone target that beats receivers in the air. Benjamin does everything you'd want, he fights for jump balls, tracks back to the ball, runs decent routes, goes over the middle or outside, and blocks. Unfortunately, he drops easily caught balls and also runs before catching the ball. Benjamin can easily be a #1 receiver and can possibly be had in the second round.
Robinson is slightly smaller but has great vertical and is more of an open field threat. Robinson could easily be a lower tier #1 if he can become an unquestioned expert at beating the press, as he doesn't possess top tier speed. As it stands, Robinson possesses all the skills to be a solid #2.
I also love Shayne Skov. He's a guy that could be a vocal point of the defense and is a downhill tackler. Not the most athletic but can develop into a solid LB with the right coaching.
Found the button. Thanks for the tip.
Jones - I'm in full agreement. Very good chance he is there at pick 3b; I've even seen later. He's a guy I would trade up from our first 4th rounder for. Lots of guys to be had in the 3rd.
SJB - I'm iffy here. I considered him and Jaylen Watkins. I bumped Watkins over SJB because of everything buy height. Watkins is faster, quicker, and more fluid, but lacks the size (weight) to be a year one impact. He's one I looked at as a draft, strengthen, further develop, and put in after a year kind of guy. SJB wins the height category, has the ability to be more disruptive at the line, but I fear he'd be a double move target with the "stiff hips" I read about.
Richardson - I think he'd be a good third round pick up. He's usually in most all of my mocks. Seems like a value pick due to injuries, as you've mentioned - I believe stress fracture concerns? With McQuistan coming in, he could develop for the first season with some game time when needed and make a push to take over the role at RT if he can perform in the zone.
Benjamin and Robinson - You hit my main two concerns. I'd take Robinson over Benjamin, but both scare me a bit. Robinson for the speed aspect, but we have two burners already, so he may just be a good fit for us. Benjamin scares me the most of all the top receivers, for a reason I have never seen talked about. Did you watch him at the combine? If not, I suggest you watch his 40 yard dash. Don't focus on time, but look at his footwork coming off the line. I get he's in a down position, but I have to say that I've never seen a receiver with footwork like that in the first 8-10 steps. If I'm a coach, I'm jamming him at the line every down...anything to keep him from accelerating. Seem like a guy who can be easily neutralized, despite his size.
Skov - I liked him until I looked more into Jones. Haven't turned back. Quality prospect, though.
--------------------------------------------
What do you think about Jaylen Watkins, Donte Moncrief, Donte Johnson (as a safety), and Dakota Dozier (I believe I once read that Dozier is capable of playing center - I'll have to look that back up)? And, if we took QB at 4 (lets say Bortles falls), who would you take at 26 and 35?
I like the thought of Montcrief, however I'm wary of taking mid round WR's simply because we've yet to develop any studs in house over the years. Our two most prolific WR's have been Edwards and Gordon and both were taken in rounds 1 or 2. That's not an indictment on Montcrief, it's a general worry that he would go the way of MoMass and never really develop. But he does possess all the tools you look for, if he could improve his in-air battling.Found the button. Thanks for the tip.
Jones - I'm in full agreement. Very good chance he is there at pick 3b; I've even seen later. He's a guy I would trade up from our first 4th rounder for. Lots of guys to be had in the 3rd.
SJB - I'm iffy here. I considered him and Jaylen Watkins. I bumped Watkins over SJB because of everything buy height. Watkins is faster, quicker, and more fluid, but lacks the size (weight) to be a year one impact. He's one I looked at as a draft, strengthen, further develop, and put in after a year kind of guy. SJB wins the height category, has the ability to be more disruptive at the line, but I fear he'd be a double move target with the "stiff hips" I read about.
Richardson - I think he'd be a good third round pick up. He's usually in most all of my mocks. Seems like a value pick due to injuries, as you've mentioned - I believe stress fracture concerns? With McQuistan coming in, he could develop for the first season with some game time when needed and make a push to take over the role at RT if he can perform in the zone.
Benjamin and Robinson - You hit my main two concerns. I'd take Robinson over Benjamin, but both scare me a bit. Robinson for the speed aspect, but we have two burners already, so he may just be a good fit for us. Benjamin scares me the most of all the top receivers, for a reason I have never seen talked about. Did you watch him at the combine? If not, I suggest you watch his 40 yard dash. Don't focus on time, but look at his footwork coming off the line. I get he's in a down position, but I have to say that I've never seen a receiver with footwork like that in the first 8-10 steps. If I'm a coach, I'm jamming him at the line every down...anything to keep him from accelerating. Seem like a guy who can be easily neutralized, despite his size.
Skov - I liked him until I looked more into Jones. Haven't turned back. Quality prospect, though.
--------------------------------------------
What do you think about Jaylen Watkins, Donte Moncrief, Donte Johnson (as a safety), and Dakota Dozier (I believe I once read that Dozier is capable of playing center - I'll have to look that back up)? And, if we took QB at 4 (lets say Bortles falls), who would you take at 26 and 35?
Dozier is a solid prospect, however I worry he won't be as great in a zone scheme. He showed trouble scraping and reaching the second level at times and that's worrisome. I played at Coastal Carolina and still live in the area, and we regularly played Furman, so I tend to watch a lot of Furman, Liberty, High Point, UNCC games etc.
The others I haven't done any research on, but I will this week.
Being from South Carolina and having Gamecock alum friends, I fell in love with Alshon Jeffery and I absolutely love giant redzone targets that can isolate defenders and play above the rim. Kelvin Benjamin is a guy that I think has the best potential to become that player. I'm tired of seeing Cleveland fizzle in the red zone and having Gordon, Benjamin and Cameron with the ability to play high creates a coverage mismatch every time. Further, Benjamin also gives us the flexibility of lining him up inside on 2 TE sets with Gordon and Hawkins on the outside. Benjamin's blocking is above average and his size is a great asset, he won't get blown off the line. Plus having him covered by a LB or SS is just unfair.
EDIT: my top three picks would likely be:
#4- Bortles
#26-Benjamin
#35- Jones
I'd love to trade down from 35 about 10 picks and still get Jones, but I would rather be save and lock him up. A player of his caliber is more important than an extra mid round pick.
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I like the thought of Montcrief, however I'm wary of taking mid round WR's simply because we've yet to develop any studs in house over the years. Our two most prolific WR's have been Edwards and Gordon and both were taken in rounds 1 or 2. That's not an indictment on Montcrief, it's a general worry that he would go the way of MoMass and never really develop. But he does possess all the tools you look for, if he could improve his in-air battling.Found the button. Thanks for the tip.
Jones - I'm in full agreement. Very good chance he is there at pick 3b; I've even seen later. He's a guy I would trade up from our first 4th rounder for. Lots of guys to be had in the 3rd.
SJB - I'm iffy here. I considered him and Jaylen Watkins. I bumped Watkins over SJB because of everything buy height. Watkins is faster, quicker, and more fluid, but lacks the size (weight) to be a year one impact. He's one I looked at as a draft, strengthen, further develop, and put in after a year kind of guy. SJB wins the height category, has the ability to be more disruptive at the line, but I fear he'd be a double move target with the "stiff hips" I read about.
Richardson - I think he'd be a good third round pick up. He's usually in most all of my mocks. Seems like a value pick due to injuries, as you've mentioned - I believe stress fracture concerns? With McQuistan coming in, he could develop for the first season with some game time when needed and make a push to take over the role at RT if he can perform in the zone.
Benjamin and Robinson - You hit my main two concerns. I'd take Robinson over Benjamin, but both scare me a bit. Robinson for the speed aspect, but we have two burners already, so he may just be a good fit for us. Benjamin scares me the most of all the top receivers, for a reason I have never seen talked about. Did you watch him at the combine? If not, I suggest you watch his 40 yard dash. Don't focus on time, but look at his footwork coming off the line. I get he's in a down position, but I have to say that I've never seen a receiver with footwork like that in the first 8-10 steps. If I'm a coach, I'm jamming him at the line every down...anything to keep him from accelerating. Seem like a guy who can be easily neutralized, despite his size.
Skov - I liked him until I looked more into Jones. Haven't turned back. Quality prospect, though.
--------------------------------------------
What do you think about Jaylen Watkins, Donte Moncrief, Donte Johnson (as a safety), and Dakota Dozier (I believe I once read that Dozier is capable of playing center - I'll have to look that back up)? And, if we took QB at 4 (lets say Bortles falls), who would you take at 26 and 35?
Dozier is a solid prospect, however I worry he won't be as great in a zone scheme. He showed trouble scraping and reaching the second level at times and that's worrisome. I played at Coastal Carolina and still live in the area, and we regularly played Furman, so I tend to watch a lot of Furman, Liberty, High Point, UNCC games etc.
The others I haven't done any research on, but I will this week.
Being from South Carolina and having Gamecock alum friends, I fell in love with Alshon Jeffery and I absolutely love giant redzone targets that can isolate defenders and play above the rim. Kelvin Benjamin is a guy that I think has the best potential to become that player. I'm tired of seeing Cleveland fizzle in the red zone and having Gordon, Benjamin and Cameron with the ability to play high creates a coverage mismatch every time. Further, Benjamin also gives us the flexibility of lining him up inside on 2 TE sets with Gordon and Hawkins on the outside. Benjamin's blocking is above average and his size is a great asset, he won't get blown off the line. Plus having him covered by a LB or SS is just unfair.
EDIT: my top three picks would likely be:
#4- Bortles
#26-Benjamin
#35- Jones
I'd love to trade down from 35 about 10 picks and still get Jones, but I would rather be save and lock him up. A player of his caliber is more important than an extra mid round pick.
I played at Coastal Carolina and still live in the area
I considered going there for baseball. Great program.
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I played at Coastal Carolina and still live in the area
I considered going there for baseball. Great program.
I considered going there for baseball. Great program.
The baseball program is absolutely fantastic. I went to school with Coach Gilmore's daughter and can attest to the fact that he's a great man as well as coach. That's part of the reason, I believe, they were able to pull in solid recruits despite being a small program.
They'll have a new stadium next season and that will also help.
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I hate this wait. It's literally a brain game...then they go an sign Burleson. Is that a tease? It's like they are trying to play with my head. Here's why.
I mock in a QB within the first 2 picks because we need one. Hoyer could likely get it done with the right cast, but we're gonna need someone else to compete. But, I look at the team and see a ton of other positions we could LOAD THE F UP ON this year, to the point that Hoyer could have just a right arm and we would be competitive (not literally...don't hammer me on that).
Trade down to 8 or 10
1a. Gilbert, CB - starter
1b. Shazier, ILB - starter
2a. Su'a Filo or Yankee, RG - starter
2b. Moses or Bitonio, RT - starter
3a. Moncrief, WR - starter
3b. Jones, ILB/OLB - eventual replacement for Dansby
4a. Fales, QB
4b. Savage, QB
5. Dontae Johnson, FS - possible starter
6. De'Anthony Thomas, RB - share time
7. Who gives a shit
Talk me out of this mindset with more reasoning than "we need a QB," because we actually don't know that for sure. Not until Hoyer fails. So would you, as Browns fans, be happy with a draft that stacks both sides of the ball (and gives us one very young team) if it meant rolling with Hoyer and selling the farm next year to get the top guy if need be? I would take a .500 season with Hoyer if it meant we would go into the 2015 literally needing 1 piece, the QB. An if Hoyer turns out to be the guy...good lord.
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