We need a Hard Hitting Safety
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Sure, you can find varying opinions on these guys. The important thing is to find guys/sites you really respect and to take their opinions into account.
But I still don't see why you're high on all of these guys. Yes, beauty is in the eye of beholder, but when did these guys show you anything special? I've looked hard, and Delmas is the only one who's really impressed me. And because I haven't seen a lot of him, I can't really say whether he's going to be a good pro.
Moore, at times, looks like a solid player, but he also can look absolutely horrible. There's a reason why Geech doesn't think he's a first round type and why JD & others think he's a better fit at linebacker. He had a good combine and pro day, but that doesn't erase the 5th round play he exhibited last season.
Chung is a very good tackler, but I think his lack of size & explosion will prevent him from being an enforcer in the secondary type. He's a smaller James Sanders - adequate, but nothing special.
Because of that, I think some of the Day Two guys may offer better value. But - as I said - we may need to take a safety high. And that's unfortunate.
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Sure, you can find varying opinions on these guys. The important thing is to find guys/sites you really respect and to take their opinions into account.
But I still don't see why you're high on all of these guys. Yes, beauty is in the eye of beholder, but when did these guys show you anything special? I've looked hard, and Delmas is the only one who's really impressed me. And because I haven't seen a lot of him, I can't really say whether he's going to be a good pro.
Moore, at times, looks like a solid player, but he also can look absolutely horrible. There's a reason why Geech doesn't think he's a first round type and why JD & others think he's a better fit at linebacker. He had a good combine and pro day, but that doesn't erase the 5th round play he exhibited last season.
Chung is a very good tackler, but I think his lack of size & explosion will prevent him from being an enforcer in the secondary type. He's a smaller James Sanders - adequate, but nothing special.
Because of that, I think some of the Day Two guys may offer better value. But - as I said - we may need to take a safety high. And that's unfortunate.
Aloysius said:
.But - as I said - we may need to take a safety high. And that's unfortunate.
Amen.
For me that is a shame when day 1 is solid through so many other positions.
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Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
It's just when you're hurting all over and Adams did decent PLUS there's a good crop next draft it makes you wonder if we'll hold out one more year to snag one that's an "impact" player instead of just "good enough."
I'm sorry I just don't see a safety this draft that could fit that Polyneedsahaircut/ Ed Reed mold for us and just because you need something when you have a wide variety of needs you take the best players that have the best chance at becoming long term starters for you.
3 seasons until our new head coach, let's hope they get it right this time. -
Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
It's just when you're hurting all over and Adams did decent PLUS there's a good crop next draft it makes you wonder if we'll hold out one more year to snag one that's an "impact" player instead of just "good enough."
I'm sorry I just don't see a safety this draft that could fit that Polyneedsahaircut/ Ed Reed mold for us and just because you need something when you have a wide variety of needs you take the best players that have the best chance at becoming long term starters for you.
Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
I think that makes a lot of sense.....There will have to be a decent SS available when teams make some cuts.
Although I still think they'll draft a safety for depth. Hopefully it's round 4 or 6 and not early.
I wish we had a 5th round pick I think MSU's Otis Wiley would be a nice 5th rounder.
Maybe EM likes Nick Sorenson?
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Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
I think that makes a lot of sense.....There will have to be a decent SS available when teams make some cuts.
Although I still think they'll draft a safety for depth. Hopefully it's round 4 or 6 and not early.
I wish we had a 5th round pick I think MSU's Otis Wiley would be a nice 5th rounder.
Maybe EM likes Nick Sorenson?
I wish we had a 5th round pick I think MSU's Otis Wiley would be a nice 5th rounder.
Interesting - he's a guy I've been trying to get a handle on. Seems like durability and consistency are big issues for him, but he has the talent to be a decent player.
His 40 time at his pro day was unimpressive (4.64), but that may not be such an issue. Mangini's got a history of drafting safeties who compensate for poor long speed by having good to great short area quickness. When he was DC in New England, they drafted James Sanders, who ran a 4.65 40 but also had a great 4.02 shuttle time. And when he took over in New York, he drafted Eric Smith, who ran a 4.63 40 at the Combine but had a freakish 3.97 shuttle time at his pro day.
There doesn't seem to be a guy who fits the same profile this year - Wiley's shuttle time was an average 4.34. Not sure if he plays with good short area quicks - my only memory is of him falling on his ass on the first play from scrimmage in the Florida Atlantic game, resulting in a TD. But I'm guessing he's a better player than that would seem to indicate.
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Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
It's just when you're hurting all over and Adams did decent PLUS there's a good crop next draft it makes you wonder if we'll hold out one more year to snag one that's an "impact" player instead of just "good enough."
I'm sorry I just don't see a safety this draft that could fit that Polyneedsahaircut/ Ed Reed mold for us and just because you need something when you have a wide variety of needs you take the best players that have the best chance at becoming long term starters for you.
Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
It's just when you're hurting all over and Adams did decent PLUS there's a good crop next draft it makes you wonder if we'll hold out one more year to snag one that's an "impact" player instead of just "good enough."
I'm sorry I just don't see a safety this draft that could fit that Polyneedsahaircut/ Ed Reed mold for us and just because you need something when you have a wide variety of needs you take the best players that have the best chance at becoming long term starters for you.
Pool is adaquate, at best, and one concussion away from the end of his career. Adams is a backup FS and a very good special teams player. I would hope EM is looking for a safety or we are in deep shit. When you go thin at a position and have an injury, like we did at CB last year, you end up with a guy like Cousins. If they bring in Milloy then I would be willing to wait until next year.
My question is why do you think we would be in line for an impact SS next year? Steubers, who Alo quotes and thinks is on top of things says Moore is stud SS who blew people away on his pro day. This was a top 10 pick until he played hurt most of his senior year. He is now healthy again. Kiper thinks Delmas is a first rounder this year. So, why again would you want to wait until next year?
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Anybody else here think there's a good chance EM might think Adams is good enough for now, pass on a safety in the draft and hope one gets cut on roster trimdowns we could use?
It's just when you're hurting all over and Adams did decent PLUS there's a good crop next draft it makes you wonder if we'll hold out one more year to snag one that's an "impact" player instead of just "good enough."
I'm sorry I just don't see a safety this draft that could fit that Polyneedsahaircut/ Ed Reed mold for us and just because you need something when you have a wide variety of needs you take the best players that have the best chance at becoming long term starters for you.
Pool is adaquate, at best, and one concussion away from the end of his career. Adams is a backup FS and a very good special teams player. I would hope EM is looking for a safety or we are in deep shit. When you go thin at a position and have an injury, like we did at CB last year, you end up with a guy like Cousins. If they bring in Milloy then I would be willing to wait until next year.
My question is why do you think we would be in line for an impact SS next year? Steubers, who Alo quotes and thinks is on top of things says Moore is stud SS who blew people away on his pro day. This was a top 10 pick until he played hurt most of his senior year. He is now healthy again. Kiper thinks Delmas is a first rounder this year. So, why again would you want to wait until next year?
Pool is adaquate, at best, and one concussion away from the end of his career. Adams is a backup FS and a very good special teams player. I would hope EM is looking for a safety or we are in deep shit. When you go thin at a position and have an injury, like we did at CB last year, you end up with a guy like Cousins. If they bring in Milloy then I would be willing to wait until next year.
My question is why do you think we would be in line for an impact SS next year? Steubers, who Alo quotes and thinks is on top of things says Moore is stud SS who blew people away on his pro day. This was a top 10 pick until he played hurt most of his senior year. He is now healthy again. Kiper thinks Delmas is a first rounder this year. So, why again would you want to wait until next year?
Why?
Because if you have a bonified pass rush you can get by without the best guys at safety or corner instead of going secondary, secondary, secondary and wondering why the hell we can't cover wrs when the opposing qb can take a nap before he throws the ball.
Working on stopping the run and providing a pass rush will do MORE for us than burning a pick on another secondary (which we need, I'll admit) we can FIX the core of the problem and then when we add in another safety he won't have to be a flat out stud to get the job done.
Really, you can have the 4 best guys in the league back in coverage but if an average qb is given all day he'll pick you apart, and we've been getting picked apart too damn long.
Right now I'll be happy with 2 linebackers (1 starter, 1 ready to start next season split reps this one), a center (start by next season, split reps this season), a defensive end (ready to start by next season, split reps this season) and maybe a wr (big guy, soft hands 3rd down kind of guy), guard (2 season project) or rb (low center of gravity, ground pounder, single cut hits the hole then goes straight) to go along with them.
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I wish we had a 5th round pick I think MSU's Otis Wiley would be a nice 5th rounder.
Interesting - he's a guy I've been trying to get a handle on. Seems like durability and consistency are big issues for him, but he has the talent to be a decent player.
His 40 time at his pro day was unimpressive (4.64), but that may not be such an issue. Mangini's got a history of drafting safeties who compensate for poor long speed by having good to great short area quickness. When he was DC in New England, they drafted James Sanders, who ran a 4.65 40 but also had a great 4.02 shuttle time. And when he took over in New York, he drafted Eric Smith, who ran a 4.63 40 at the Combine but had a freakish 3.97 shuttle time at his pro day.
There doesn't seem to be a guy who fits the same profile this year - Wiley's shuttle time was an average 4.34. Not sure if he plays with good short area quicks - my only memory is of him falling on his ass on the first play from scrimmage in the Florida Atlantic game, resulting in a TD. But I'm guessing he's a better player than that would seem to indicate.
Aloysius said:
Interesting - he's a guy I've been trying to get a handle on. Seems like durability and consistency are big issues for him, but he has the talent to be a decent player.His 40 time at his pro day was unimpressive (4.64), but that may not be such an issue. Mangini's got a history of drafting safeties who compensate for poor long speed by having good to great short area quickness. When he was DC in New England, they drafted James Sanders, who ran a 4.65 40 but also had a great 4.02 shuttle time. And when he took over in New York, he drafted Eric Smith, who ran a 4.63 40 at the Combine but had a freakish 3.97 shuttle time at his pro day.
There doesn't seem to be a guy who fits the same profile this year - Wiley's shuttle time was an average 4.34. Not sure if he plays with good short area quicks - my only memory is of him falling on his ass on the first play from scrimmage in the Florida Atlantic game, resulting in a TD. But I'm guessing he's a better player than that would seem to indicate.
some of the things I like about him are the non measurables. He had a an awful junior year. Even got benched at one point.Instead of crying about it he worked his butt off and came back to have an outstanding Senior season being named 1st team all Big Ten by both the coaches and the media.
His teammates also named him Captain coming into his senior season.
It's funny you mention the Florida Atlantic game....It ended up being one of his best games as he knocked down four passes that Saturday.
I like the fact that he played both Free safety and SS in college and is really pretty decent in coverge. Beside the pass break ups, he had four INT's his senior year and four INT's his junior year
I think he'd be a steal in the 5th round and really don't think he'll get past it. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Colts grab him near the end of the 4th. Sanders is hurt an awful lot.
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It's interesting that Cleveland is bringing in both Delmas and William Moore for private workouts. They are also bringing in a couple of CB/S combo guys.
I don't think they are satisfied at safety. Mangini says his first priority is to stop the run and you don't do that without a good SS and we don't have one. They have talked to Lawyer Milloy but haven't signed him. That would be a one year fix.
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