Did the New FO Find Enough Play Makers?
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On your point about picking players who have proven production in college and translating that to the pros.....THAT is what this last draft was all about....fair to say. What did they get....the top 2 sackers in college this past year? The top productive WR. And other top college performers.
Lets hope that the philosophy of taking top college performers translates to production in the pros.
Is that analytics? It seems so absurdly simple.
Didnt you go on and on about picking Bosa and, now, suddenly Ogbah and Nassib were great picks because they were the top 2??
Im thinking Richardson, Gilbert and Johnny were all "top performers" too....
Nothing about picking future stars is absurdly simple.....and the NFL draft history pretty much shows that......#crapshoot
Didnt you go on and on about picking Bosa and, now, suddenly Ogbah and Nassib were great picks because they were the top 2??
Im thinking Richardson, Gilbert and Johnny were all "top performers" too....
Nothing about picking future stars is absurdly simple.....and the NFL draft history pretty much shows that......#crapshoot
Yes, I think Bosa will be better than our 2.......but your point (or someone's) about "picking the top college performers" is just what the Browns did here. (But I think Bosas numbers his previous year WERE "Top" numbers.
And yes, I agree that top performance in college by no means translated to top performance in the pros.....I guess I would rather have that than poor college performance.
Why should mediocre college performers expect to become top pro performers. You mention Mingo as an example. Perhaps that is right.
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Didnt you go on and on about picking Bosa and, now, suddenly Ogbah and Nassib were great picks because they were the top 2??
Im thinking Richardson, Gilbert and Johnny were all "top performers" too....
Nothing about picking future stars is absurdly simple.....and the NFL draft history pretty much shows that......#crapshoot
Yes, I think Bosa will be better than our 2.......but your point (or someone's) about "picking the top college performers" is just what the Browns did here. (But I think Bosas numbers his previous year WERE "Top" numbers.
And yes, I agree that top performance in college by no means translated to top performance in the pros.....I guess I would rather have that than poor college performance.
Why should mediocre college performers expect to become top pro performers. You mention Mingo as an example. Perhaps that is right.
But I think Bosas numbers his previous year WERE "Top" numbers.
In 2014 Bosa was 5th in the NCAA with 13.5 sacks. Coincidentally, the guys that came 2nd and 4th on that list are now browns - Nate Orchard (18.5) and Scooby Wright (14)
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But I think Bosas numbers his previous year WERE "Top" numbers.
In 2014 Bosa was 5th in the NCAA with 13.5 sacks. Coincidentally, the guys that came 2nd and 4th on that list are now browns - Nate Orchard (18.5) and Scooby Wright (14)
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In the doldrums of summer here, try to think what separated us from the Ravens when we last played them. It was 1 big play at the end of the game or was it not enough big plays leading up special teams deciding which team was going to win on the final play?
Teams that score TDs win more football games than teams playing for FGs. The team has Phil Dawson lost to us but Phil was perfect in that game with 1 FG the only time they were capable of putting points on the board. Back when they could score TDs far more consistently, they competed in Conference Championships and a Superbowl enough to appreciate they had Phil Dawson. Not much different than when we went 10-6 when we had a RB with 1300 yards and 10 TDs combining with a QB that threw 29 TD passes in 15 starts in 2007. Wow, I can even throw in the difference rookie Joe Thomas and veteran FA Eric Steinbach were making on the blind side of QB in 2007. Imagine that!
Let's take another look at the big play resumes of some of our 2016 draft class and see if we can agree with those premature conclusions that this front office refused to look for any play makers whatsoever:
1) JR WR Corey Coleman 5'11" 193 lbs. - 74 rec 1363 yds 18.4 avg 20 TDs.
All American and Biletnikoff Winner (as the nation's best WR). Had the best 40, 3 cone and vertical at Baylor to partially explain what's behind the productivity on the field. He didn't wear an Ohio State uniform though so how could he possibly measure up to Michael Thomas or Braxton Miller?
2) JR WR Rashard Higgins 6'2" 195 lbs. - 96 rec 1750 yds 18.2 avg 17 TDs soph & 75 rec 1062 yds 14.2 avg 8 TDs junior
Consensus All American in 2014 who led the nation in yards and TDs when he had an NFL prospect at QB before working with an inexperienced passer in 2015. The Head Coach McElwain also accepted a job at Florida in 2015. Higgins didn't wear an Ohio State uniform either so he's going to have to prove himself. Geee, I miss hotshots showing up here feeling entitled. There weren't any Gerard Warrens or Phil Taylors we could have had instead?
3) JR DE Emmanuel Ogbah 6'4" 275 lbs. - 13 sacks 17.5 Tackles for Loss (TFL) 3 Forced Fumb (FF)
All American and AP's Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. That said, he was not an Ohio State Buckeye so we have to subtract 8 sacks and some tackles for losses and add 1 suspension to match the Joey Bosa level of special here. Bosa is the allegedly only edge rusher on the planet that has ever been chipped by TEs and found a RB in pass protection. Therefore Ogbah doesn't get to show up to the NFL feeling entitled in 2016 like Bosa.
4) SR DE Carl Nassib 6'6" 273 lbs - 15.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 6 FF
Led the nation in sacking the QB while he was pretty freakin productive at causing fumbles and tackling people in the backfield. Not bad for a guy who was told by Bill O'Brien not to bother thinking about the NFL. O'Brien went on to draft Jadevian Clowney #1 overall so he really knows how to size up what an inner chest projects there. Unfortunately, Nassib didn't play at Ohio State so we're supposed to understand none of that counts better than the Harvard intellects are capable of here.
5) JR LB Scooby Wright 6'1" 250 lbs - 14.5 sacks 29 TFL 6 FF as a soph (injured most of JR year)
If football was played on paper emphasizing fitness and prototypicals, this guy would start. Instead, it's played on the gridiron where 1st step instinct matters more than 40 times in a world where the average play lasts about 3-4 seconds. All that went on display when Scooby was the 2014 Pac 12 Defensive Player of the Year as a SOPH while winning the Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagurski Awards as well as earning All American honors. The 29 TFL led the nation even if they weren't at the Horseshoe. As much as I love Ohio State, I'd rather draft this guy in round 7 than another Craig Powell in the upper half of round 1. That said, Pepper Johnson never looked like he'd win any fitness awards but his ideal instincts sure helped our last playoff team to win a game in the post season win 11 regular season games.
6) SR LB Joe Schobert 6'2" 247 lbs - 9.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 5 FF
The LBer formerly known as White Men Can't Jump until 1 game changing basketball dunk video later. Not really a flashy guy commanding a lot of attention at Wisconsin so he was about as popular pre-draft to his position as Russell Wilson used to be at his position. Can this quiet guy off the field deliver a Joe Rassics-Bark with his pads on the field? Those are pretty impressive numbers flying under the radar that an aggressive Zone Blitzing DC might want to stealth attack offenses with.
7) SR QB Cody Kessler 6'1" 220 lbs - 10,399 yds 88 TDs 19 INTs 67.5 cmp% 3 years as starter
I realize I lost every single right to talk QBs here with my comment about seeing a future for Connor Shaw here. And now I'm bringing up the Kess? No wonder why I never knew the difference between Summer School and Summer's Cool. For those still reading, the Kess played for 5 different coaches before he impressed our brain trust and Hue. Maybe he can be what I thought Shaw was capable of becoming.
I don't know how many of these guys are ready sudden impact but they're only competing with talent that gave us 3 wins in 16 games. Some of that could be chalked up to inexperience, injuries and coaching. I once heard Bill Belichick describe Carl Banks in terms of it took him some time to get the position; but once he got it - it was well worth the time and patience invested in him. As it's been said, we have some 2nd year guys like Orchard, Shelton, and Cooper that might be ready to emerge. Whatever we add outside to our WR Corps should benefit Barnidge inside while he benefits them back. I see a common theme of blue collar work ethics that led to productive college resumes in the big play dept. It's a little better than hoping we can teach a 2nd round pick like Greg Little how to catch or hope he displays more courage in traffic than Danny Ferry.
There's other draftees I'm intrigued by that can help us on the line or with a situational role or a special teams duty. I just think as recently as 2014, our biggest hurdle to winning wasn't effort or even injury as much as it was play makers. If we can landed more play makers and stay a little healthier than we've been able to - there's no reason we can't win 1 more game than we won in 2014. I think we won 3 of 4 games without Alex Mack back then so can Alvin Bailey, Austin Pasztor or Shon Coleman/Spencer Drango/Joel Bitonio else play effectively at RT? We'll return 3 starters and have sufficient time to get people in the right places with an experienced coaching staff.
In the doldrums of summer here, try to think what separated us from the Ravens when we last played them. It was 1 big play at the end of the game or was it not enough big plays leading up special teams deciding which team was going to win on the final play?
Teams that score TDs win more football games than teams playing for FGs. The team has Phil Dawson lost to us but Phil was perfect in that game with 1 FG the only time they were capable of putting points on the board. Back when they could score TDs far more consistently, they competed in Conference Championships and a Superbowl enough to appreciate they had Phil Dawson. Not much different than when we went 10-6 when we had a RB with 1300 yards and 10 TDs combining with a QB that threw 29 TD passes in 15 starts in 2007. Wow, I can even throw in the difference rookie Joe Thomas and veteran FA Eric Steinbach were making on the blind side of QB in 2007. Imagine that!
Let's take another look at the big play resumes of some of our 2016 draft class and see if we can agree with those premature conclusions that this front office refused to look for any play makers whatsoever:
1) JR WR Corey Coleman 5'11" 193 lbs. - 74 rec 1363 yds 18.4 avg 20 TDs.
All American and Biletnikoff Winner (as the nation's best WR). Had the best 40, 3 cone and vertical at Baylor to partially explain what's behind the productivity on the field. He didn't wear an Ohio State uniform though so how could he possibly measure up to Michael Thomas or Braxton Miller?
2) JR WR Rashard Higgins 6'2" 195 lbs. - 96 rec 1750 yds 18.2 avg 17 TDs soph & 75 rec 1062 yds 14.2 avg 8 TDs junior
Consensus All American in 2014 who led the nation in yards and TDs when he had an NFL prospect at QB before working with an inexperienced passer in 2015. The Head Coach McElwain also accepted a job at Florida in 2015. Higgins didn't wear an Ohio State uniform either so he's going to have to prove himself. Geee, I miss hotshots showing up here feeling entitled. There weren't any Gerard Warrens or Phil Taylors we could have had instead?
3) JR DE Emmanuel Ogbah 6'4" 275 lbs. - 13 sacks 17.5 Tackles for Loss (TFL) 3 Forced Fumb (FF)
All American and AP's Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. That said, he was not an Ohio State Buckeye so we have to subtract 8 sacks and some tackles for losses and add 1 suspension to match the Joey Bosa level of special here. Bosa is the allegedly only edge rusher on the planet that has ever been chipped by TEs and found a RB in pass protection. Therefore Ogbah doesn't get to show up to the NFL feeling entitled in 2016 like Bosa.
4) SR DE Carl Nassib 6'6" 273 lbs - 15.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 6 FF
Led the nation in sacking the QB while he was pretty freakin productive at causing fumbles and tackling people in the backfield. Not bad for a guy who was told by Bill O'Brien not to bother thinking about the NFL. O'Brien went on to draft Jadevian Clowney #1 overall so he really knows how to size up what an inner chest projects there. Unfortunately, Nassib didn't play at Ohio State so we're supposed to understand none of that counts better than the Harvard intellects are capable of here.
5) JR LB Scooby Wright 6'1" 250 lbs - 14.5 sacks 29 TFL 6 FF as a soph (injured most of JR year)
If football was played on paper emphasizing fitness and prototypicals, this guy would start. Instead, it's played on the gridiron where 1st step instinct matters more than 40 times in a world where the average play lasts about 3-4 seconds. All that went on display when Scooby was the 2014 Pac 12 Defensive Player of the Year as a SOPH while winning the Bednarik, Lombardi and Nagurski Awards as well as earning All American honors. The 29 TFL led the nation even if they weren't at the Horseshoe. As much as I love Ohio State, I'd rather draft this guy in round 7 than another Craig Powell in the upper half of round 1. That said, Pepper Johnson never looked like he'd win any fitness awards but his ideal instincts sure helped our last playoff team to win a game in the post season win 11 regular season games.
6) SR LB Joe Schobert 6'2" 247 lbs - 9.5 sacks 19.5 TFL 5 FF
The LBer formerly known as White Men Can't Jump until 1 game changing basketball dunk video later. Not really a flashy guy commanding a lot of attention at Wisconsin so he was about as popular pre-draft to his position as Russell Wilson used to be at his position. Can this quiet guy off the field deliver a Joe Rassics-Bark with his pads on the field? Those are pretty impressive numbers flying under the radar that an aggressive Zone Blitzing DC might want to stealth attack offenses with.
7) SR QB Cody Kessler 6'1" 220 lbs - 10,399 yds 88 TDs 19 INTs 67.5 cmp% 3 years as starter
I realize I lost every single right to talk QBs here with my comment about seeing a future for Connor Shaw here. And now I'm bringing up the Kess? No wonder why I never knew the difference between Summer School and Summer's Cool. For those still reading, the Kess played for 5 different coaches before he impressed our brain trust and Hue. Maybe he can be what I thought Shaw was capable of becoming.
I don't know how many of these guys are ready sudden impact but they're only competing with talent that gave us 3 wins in 16 games. Some of that could be chalked up to inexperience, injuries and coaching. I once heard Bill Belichick describe Carl Banks in terms of it took him some time to get the position; but once he got it - it was well worth the time and patience invested in him. As it's been said, we have some 2nd year guys like Orchard, Shelton, and Cooper that might be ready to emerge. Whatever we add outside to our WR Corps should benefit Barnidge inside while he benefits them back. I see a common theme of blue collar work ethics that led to productive college resumes in the big play dept. It's a little better than hoping we can teach a 2nd round pick like Greg Little how to catch or hope he displays more courage in traffic than Danny Ferry.
There's other draftees I'm intrigued by that can help us on the line or with a situational role or a special teams duty. I just think as recently as 2014, our biggest hurdle to winning wasn't effort or even injury as much as it was play makers. If we can landed more play makers and stay a little healthier than we've been able to - there's no reason we can't win 1 more game than we won in 2014. I think we won 3 of 4 games without Alex Mack back then so can Alvin Bailey, Austin Pasztor or Shon Coleman/Spencer Drango/Joel Bitonio else play effectively at RT? We'll return 3 starters and have sufficient time to get people in the right places with an experienced coaching staff.
As you can see and so I've been told, I'm usually optimistic to a fault with a lot of our prospects.
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