Camp Trubisky

flyingfooldoug

@the-gipper said:
From what I understand those homeless guys this year go be the name of Sashi (Brown) and Andrew (Berry).

I think we need the kielbasa kid to stage an intervention.

The Gipper

@westside-steve said:

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

So if he gets taken with the first pick in the draft that will make him better?

Or just a bigger embarrassment if he's not on his way to the hall of fame after the second year in the league?

WSS

He is the best QB in a year that the Browns will have the #1 pick....and can take their choice. He may be the best QB prospect to come out since Winston.

But, sure, he would be a prospect.

Could he be a Joey Harrington/Akili Smith bust.....there is always a remote chance.

Could he become a superstar? Why not.

Could he be somewhere in between? More likely.

Is he better than anything that the Browns have prospects on at the QB slot right now?

Undoubtedly...unless you still believe in the Resurrection of Black Jesus, aka RGIII.

I am not of that denomination of faith. And I am pretty sure you aren't either.

The Gipper

@gftchris said:

Not sure why but I'm getting very much a 'Teddy Twatwater' vibe from Deshaun Watson. Pre-season number one, fell down the boards due to an apparently slightly underwhelming season (where Watson's basically on exactly the same numbers as the year before) and people worried about his size at 'only' 6'2" and 205lbs.

Maybe I'm just squinting a bit too much but the parallels looks obvious to me at least.

I want better. Trubisky is more Derek Carr than Bridgewater. And if you were redrafting right now....Derek Carr would be in like the top 2-3 players taken.

The Gipper

@westside-steve said:

He's not the top prospect in any of the draft previews I have seen. Maybe there are others. All I've been hearing about is Watson and Kizer. He was number 2 on the one I posted and considered a second-round Prospect. That's all. No hatred for the kid.

Just that I think some of the guys around here are going overboard with the love.

And again if I believed the troubles of the Cleveland Browns rested with the quarterback position I might care more.

WSS

Quarterback IS a major trouble area of the Browns. Not sure what you are watching if you don't see that.

Is it the ONLY major trouble area. Fuck no. Take your pick. OL, DB, DL etc.

And I did a compilation of scouting sites. I posted it here somewhere. And Trubisky WAS the top prospect on nearly like 75% of them. Unanimous? No. And what you may have been seeing were the preseason reports.....which are ancient history.

You may be looking at something as outdated as the polls that said Hillary would win by a landslide.

CaineDeSoulis

i don't think we can afford to pass on the best QB Available. BPA really only works after you have your QB anyway. I mean honestly the question is to take the Best QB available or to take someone else like Allen/Garrett or Peppers. There is no other QB that matches up with Mitch this year. Kizer has sucked since week 3 and Watson is the prime example of a "college" QB like tebow or braxton miller. nobody else is being projected as a first round QB with the odd exception here and there of Luke Falk/Mason Rudolph/Davis Webb.

tiamat63

If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?

I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tiamat63 said:

If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?

I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.

If Blaine Gabbert graded out higher than prior top QB prospects, no. You take him every day of the week.

Fact is you can't know whether a player is a Gabbert or a Rodgers. Further fact is that a Gabbert can be a Rodgers if utilized correctly and isn't ruined from the beginning. Thrown to the fire, only a select few shine....and that's not something you can scout.

You have to protect your asset. Look at Oakland and Dallas this year. Dak and Carr are having ridiculous seasons....it's no coincidence they also have studly offensive lines.

IMO, Trubisky deserves talk as the best prospect in this class and I'd put him akin to Goff/Wentz/Bortles/Carr and maybe just a shade below Mariota. With a stellar offensive line, Trubisky can be an effective NFL QB for sure.

CaineDeSoulis

@tiamat63 said:

If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?

I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.

the 2011 draft had Cam Newton as the best QB available in the draft though

you would have been better served to use the 2013 draft as an example

tiamat63

@cainedesoulis said:

the 2011 draft had Cam Newton as the best QB available in the draft though

you would have been better served to use the 2013 draft as an example

Fair point. If there was a clear cut #1 QB then the rest of these guys (Mitch, Watson, Kizer) then 2011 would be a better example.

The Gipper

@tiamat63 said:

If the best QB available in the draft was Blaine Gabbert... could you then afford to pass on him?

I've harped on this and many times over, you don't draft for a position just to say you addressed it.

Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.

You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.

(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)

CaineDeSoulis

That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.

tiamat63

@the-gipper said:

Except...of course.....Trubisky is graded out far, far ahead of where Gabbert was graded.

You also don't pass on a position of need just because some fan on a chat board thinks he knows more than the guys doing the picks.

(though....admittedly.....a lot of us could have done better...If I had been drafting last year we would have had probably Bosa and Josh Doctson....or maybe Lynch)

It's the Browns... at this point that phrase isn't accurate.

@cainedesoulis said:
That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.

No disagreement. I want no part of Kizer early.

hoorta

@cainedesoulis said:
That may be. But i and Most of the draft pundits currently see Mitch as the clear top QB of this draft. There's still bowl games and combines to be run but the game tape is an advantage for Mitch. He's the most pro ready QB prospect currently. If Kizer was 6'2 210 he wouldn't even be talked about for the first 2 rounds. as much as people may want it he is not a "good" version of cardale jones.

I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

I can't see why Kizer is getting any love at all. Yeah, he's big, and has a big arm. That about covers it. I have an extreme aversion to Notre Dame quarterbacks. Their track record in the pros has been miserable of late. Quinn, Clausen....

That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.

gftChris

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.

Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.

LondonBrown

@the-gipper said:
I want better. Trubisky is more Derek Carr than Bridgewater. And if you were redrafting right now....Derek Carr would be in like the top 2-3 players taken.

Carr goes number one, no doubt about it.

gftChris

@londonbrown said:
Carr goes number one, no doubt about it.

And I'm guessing Teddy doesn't fall past the jags. I forget who was picking second that year, we were fourth (and take Khalil Mack, OBJ or Aaron Donald probably).

calfoxwc

The more folks are watching Trubisky, and the more they think he could be pro-ready something special,

and you need a qb, of course you draft him high. There's that huge a demand for qb's who "get it".

..can see the field, have the arm, football iq, pocket presence, tough/durable...

It's like if you could go back in time...what round would you draft Joe Montana in? Brady? etc etc Drew Brees,

all 6', 209 lbs of him, sent at the end of the second round.

I would love to get Trubisky in the second round, or even the second pick of the first.

but so far, I think I'd just pick him at the top of round one - seems he could really be special. Still early though.

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That's completely illogical however. The school has nothing to do with the QB's performance in the NFL.

Joe Montana & Joe Thiesman are duly noted for ND. Granted, might be illogical, but just call it "The Curse of the Irish." And I'm basing my dislike of Kizer on what I've seen, not just some whim.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@gftchris said:
Mostly, but you do see a trend from some schools and some positions. Like for years Baylor have been producing big stat monster WRs in college that don't really translate to the pros (here's hoping Coleman is breaking that trend). USC produces underwhelming QBs (again, here's hoping ours bucks it). Alabama running backs put up big numbers but then often struggle.

It makes sense if you have an entrenched coach or similar offensive system or somehow have maintained the same positional coach throughout multiple tenures.

But Clausen and Kizer are two different QB's from two different coaching systems and two different offenses. I agree though, I wouldn't want Kizer any higher than late second.