Where have all the good lines gone?
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I've often wondered why coaches don't *strongly suggest* that a guy like Joe Thomas take all his OL buddies away to OL camp for a couple of months in the offseason, with a few coaches. Limitations in practise time only affect the club's coaching staff, right? So they could have a list of 'approved coaches' who they know won't teach the 'wrong' thing.
I've often wondered why coaches don't *strongly suggest* that a guy like Joe Thomas take all his OL buddies away to OL camp for a couple of months in the offseason, with a few coaches. Limitations in practise time only affect the club's coaching staff, right? So they could have a list of 'approved coaches' who they know won't teach the 'wrong' thing.
Sure.... why not... QBs and WRs "work out" together a lot in the off-season. And lord knows Joe T. can coach. Have to look no further than Schwartz to see that. Over 4 years he evolved to as near a mirror-image clone of Joe as was possible.
I wonder if Joe has any interest in a second career as an OL coach when the time comes? ... may that time still be a ways off...
Aside: It was good to see Mitch do well last nite. When Mack had success it seemed to come thru Fischer.
So of course not having as keen of an eye as you do, I can only moreso provide personal opinion and player perspectives.
1. I played center 4 years in high school at a weight of MAYBE 200 lbs (seriously). Now, I fancied myself a pretty good athlete (I played DE and long snapper as well) but there's no way on God's green Earth I had a chance against the NC mountain boys we played. As such, I took the time to learn technique as much as possible. From this perspective, albeit MUCH different, technique beat being the better athletic a good bit of the time. Sometimes though there was jack shit I could do, just like guys nowadays with physical limitations.
2. Many former OL guys are on the sports talks shows and they all basically say the same thing about declining OL play lately. They break it down to what I noted and the fact that much less practice time results in much less technique work.
With that in mind, I'd definitely argue that technique is more of an issue compared to athleticism. I suppose it may be fair to say the OL don't have to be as physically gifted as other positions, but making a QB not be on his ass half the time requires technique which these guys are horribly lacking.
Completely subjective topic and one where experience at whatever level is more informative than observation.
200#? That's a big boy compared to me. I was listed at 185, but truth be told that was my weigh in for my team physical... before double sessions started. By the end of double sessions I was in the 160's... albeit the upper 160's thank you very much. So ditto.... angles were important and tech was the path to the angles.
I forget that practice time is not just limited for the pros by the CBA, but also by the NCAA both in frequency and duration. That plus the evolving "style" of the collegiate game just doesn't prepare OL like it once did. And schools that still play a game closer to the "old days", like Wisconsin, simply don't have the success that attracts the best talent. Year in and out I love watching Wisconsin's OL collectively, but it's not every year I see an individual kid in that unit that I think will translate well to the pros. And when I do it's mostly an interior player.
Other schools that I used to see as OL factories are not the same today. Nebraska comes to mind.
And then there are those where it's hard to trust what I see in a player because the the OL is such a tight unit that it's hard to see where their talent ends and the unit's takes over. BAMA comes to mind immediately.
End of rambling for now....
On your Athlete/tech balance... agree the deficit is on the tech side for all the reasons we've mulled over. Add that in general the athletes today are superior to those of 10 or 20 years ago and it's QED. But that's an issue as well.
I think the more athletic the OL, the more dominant his athleticism will be at any level... until it suddenly isn't. And if the level where it suddenly "isn't"is the pro level, then it can be too late. Work habits have never developed.
Maybe in the end it's a third factor that is more often associated with other positions, "skill positions", more than it is OL, that has to be probed in prospects... inner drive... AKA heart? Maybe love of the OL? It's a big factor with QBs. I wonder how much time is spent on it with OL? For that matter I wonder how much white board time is spent with OL diagramming plays?
On your last point... I think OL is the "right field" of football. Where you stick the kid that's just not quite good enough to play another position.
Good chat... sorry for the rambling...
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The thread title was misleading.
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