browns chargers game 2017
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FWIW the Chargers get to move into Kroenke's 2.6 billion dollar palace for $1 a year. Not sure for how long the sweetheart deal lasts but the NFL forced the deal on Kroenke as a condition for approving his move from St Louis. Remember, the NFL didn't support the move at first, but McNair, Jones, and other owners fell in love with Kroenke's mega proposal and voted for it despite committee recommendations.
Also of note, and quite possibly the rationale behind the sweetheart rent deal, the Chargers relocation fee is estimated to be 650 million. Rams paid slightly less when they moved because Los Angeles was still considered their secondary market even after playing 20 years in St Louis. Spanos may attempt to argue Los Angeles was always a secondary market for the Chargers, but the NFL ruled several years ago that no team had a claim on the LA market and couldn't move there without approval. The Raiders relocation fee if they move to Vegas is also rumored to be in the 650 million dollar range, but it's unclear how much of that tab would be picked up by hotel and casino owners.
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Boo fucking hoo. And of course corporatist ESPN is going to run a puff piece on how sad this move is.
Reality? Spanos is a greedy bastard who doesn't care about anything especially the viability/perception of the NFL. As George Carlin famously said, it's a club and you ain't in it.. and they don't care about you.
Are the Chargers correct? FUCK NO. The entire notion of a team is its city - without that, the team is literally nothing. Thought experiment: What, exactly, is the current Browns organization without Cleveland? Because Haslam doesn't get to take it with him.. that's Cleveland's.
I say let Spanos and his rent-a-team fail for however long it takes. He'll come crawling back and be told to sit down, shut up, and pay for a stadium renovation out of his own revenue sharing deal.
And if he doesn't, GOOD FOR SAN DIEGO. I live in a town (suburb of Boston) that happily and correctly told the Olympics to go pound sand because the economics weren't a good deal for the taxpayers.
Ultimately this is not really a commentary on the NFL as an institution --- it's a commentary on the laughable absurdity of public cost / private profit enterprises, and the continuing revolt against the economic policies of the 1% who own each individual business.
Boo fucking hoo. And of course corporatist ESPN is going to run a puff piece on how sad this move is.
Reality? Spanos is a greedy bastard who doesn't care about anything especially the viability/perception of the NFL. As George Carlin famously said, it's a club and you ain't in it.. and they don't care about you.
Are the Chargers correct? FUCK NO. The entire notion of a team is its city - without that, the team is literally nothing. Thought experiment: What, exactly, is the current Browns organization without Cleveland? Because Haslam doesn't get to take it with him.. that's Cleveland's.
I say let Spanos and his rent-a-team fail for however long it takes. He'll come crawling back and be told to sit down, shut up, and pay for a stadium renovation out of his own revenue sharing deal.
And if he doesn't, GOOD FOR SAN DIEGO. I live in a town (suburb of Boston) that happily and correctly told the Olympics to go pound sand because the economics weren't a good deal for the taxpayers.
Ultimately this is not really a commentary on the NFL as an institution --- it's a commentary on the laughable absurdity of public cost / private profit enterprises, and the continuing revolt against the economic policies of the 1% who own each individual business.
A liberal talking economics making very little sense. Shocked.
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Heard some sports talk show discuss the move and the situation so mimics the browns.
Chargers in Sand Diego for 56 yrs.
Spanos asking for a new stadium as far back as 1995 when the Chargers were in the Super Bowl vs San Fran.
Padres after 1 winning season get a new baseball stadium, but the chargers continue to be ignored.
Spanos...he had no choice.
Spanos had no choice if he wanted to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses.
We wouldn't expect a Steelers fan to know the details of 1995, but regarding Artie- not exactly. He had the original sweetheart deal from the City of Cleveland- essentially free stadium, all the concessions, and the rather primitive luxury box revenue. And he had the Indians as a captive tenant. Hit Model right in the pocket when the Tribe moved to Jacobs Field. But though he had to be jealous, Artie never asked for a NEW Stadium, The plans for a remodeled one were on the books, and there was a vote on the November ballot. That's where Spanos and Modell diverge. Spanos has been bellyaching for a new stadium for decades, Voters rejected funding a couple months ago. Modell never asked for one- and if he had- it would have been a done deal. There's a difference in wealth too. Alex is worth over a billion- Modell had no choice BECAUSE it came to light after the fact- he was essentially broke. Even with the $42 million bribe from Baltimore, the state of Maryland- and a sweetheart deal that made anything he had in Cleveland look like chump change, he was forced to sell out to Biscotti- because Fleet Bank was threatening foreclosure on him. Plus, Modell could have sold out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. As Mr. DeFord famously said- "Sorry Art, you're just not RICH enough to own a football team anymore."
Spanos had no choice if he wanted to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses.
We wouldn't expect a Steelers fan to know the details of 1995, but regarding Artie- not exactly. He had the original sweetheart deal from the City of Cleveland- essentially free stadium, all the concessions, and the rather primitive luxury box revenue. And he had the Indians as a captive tenant. Hit Model right in the pocket when the Tribe moved to Jacobs Field. But though he had to be jealous, Artie never asked for a NEW Stadium, The plans for a remodeled one were on the books, and there was a vote on the November ballot. That's where Spanos and Modell diverge. Spanos has been bellyaching for a new stadium for decades, Voters rejected funding a couple months ago. Modell never asked for one- and if he had- it would have been a done deal. There's a difference in wealth too. Alex is worth over a billion- Modell had no choice BECAUSE it came to light after the fact- he was essentially broke. Even with the $42 million bribe from Baltimore, the state of Maryland- and a sweetheart deal that made anything he had in Cleveland look like chump change, he was forced to sell out to Biscotti- because Fleet Bank was threatening foreclosure on him. Plus, Modell could have sold out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. As Mr. DeFord famously said- "Sorry Art, you're just not RICH enough to own a football team anymore."
Nice bit of history!!
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SD isn''t that far from LA... so the die hard's still have a team.
If the Browns moved to Columbus today to play in a soccer stadium while they had a football stadium built and changed their logo before you woke up this morning to reflect Columbus ... you'd have thousands of people dumping their now useless Cleveland Browns gear in front of the offices in Berea and and half the board saying "I'm Out!"
Zombo
Zombo said:
If the Browns moved to Columbus today to play in a soccer stadium while they had a football stadium built and changed their logo before you woke up this morning to reflect Columbus ... you'd have thousands of people dumping their now useless Cleveland Browns gear in front of the offices in Berea and and half the board saying "I'm Out!"
Zombo
What would you do?
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Zombo said:
If the Browns moved to Columbus today to play in a soccer stadium while they had a football stadium built and changed their logo before you woke up this morning to reflect Columbus ... you'd have thousands of people dumping their now useless Cleveland Browns gear in front of the offices in Berea and and half the board saying "I'm Out!"
Zombo
What would you do?
What would you do?
I'm a Cleveland Browns fan.
Fuck Colombus. I'd make the Haslem family's life miserable.
So far, I love the reaction in SD and LA ... San Diego hates them, and LA doesn't want them.
Dan Fouts: they're dead too me.
Zombo
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I was stationed at Coronado when Fouts and Winslow played for the Chargers. Went to many a game with my unit and had some outstanding tail gates there. Damn shame I think.
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I was stationed at Coronado when Fouts and Winslow played for the Chargers. Went to many a game with my unit and had some outstanding tail gates there. Damn shame I think.
I was stationed at Coronado when Fouts and Winslow played for the Chargers. Went to many a game with my unit and had some outstanding tail gates there. Damn shame I think.
Always wanted to go to San Diego. Guess I will settle for Vegas to see the Raiders play the Broncos and bet on the Browns.
In fact I will email my Broncos season multi-ticket holding nephew and see if he wants to get us tickets and meet me there.
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I am curious on how much the chargers are going to charge for tickets? 27000 seats at stub gun center.
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This might be a BIG financial mistake with the NFL showing cracks in the shield, viewership is actually dropping particularly on the Thursday and even less interest in Sunday Night and Monday Night games.
And now drop a $1B plus investment in Lala Land? Is that wise? Not really unless it becomes part of Disneyland.
Plus moving two old franchises to a weak LA market plus the Raiders to an untried Vegas market....well maybe they can comp you with football tickets if you blow enough gambling.
From my understanding, Stan Kronke (or however you spell it) paid for the new stadium in LA himself. The league might have chipped in some money in exchange for having the NFL combine and all league offices be a part of this new giant palace in Inglewood.
The Raiders will do fine in Vegas....big following, cheap flights from LA, OC or Bay area and it seems clear that Raiders fans don't care where the team plays and they'll still follow them. SD Chargers fans are not going to follow this team to LA even though its' only about 90 miles away. People in SD hate everything about LA and there's no chance they're going to support the team up there.
From my understanding, Stan Kronke (or however you spell it) paid for the new stadium in LA himself. The league might have chipped in some money in exchange for having the NFL combine and all league offices be a part of this new giant palace in Inglewood.
The Raiders will do fine in Vegas....big following, cheap flights from LA, OC or Bay area and it seems clear that Raiders fans don't care where the team plays and they'll still follow them. SD Chargers fans are not going to follow this team to LA even though its' only about 90 miles away. People in SD hate everything about LA and there's no chance they're going to support the team up there.
Yea, I think the Raiders in Vegas have a better chance of success than the now two LA teams. You are right, in addition to Bay area fans still supporting the Raiders after their move, the Raiders have always had a greater national following (and they may actually still have as big a following in LA as the Rams or Chargers would have). Plus, add their renegade image to the sin city image of Vegas and you have a potential match made in heaven......or would that be hell?
In addition, Vegas would attract a lot of out of town fans of the visiting team. I could see going there for a weekend for a Browns/Raiders game.
What does LA have? Blase fans (they got what? about 25K for a few Rams games this year).
But, I guess they will be able to kiss up to the Hollywood stars that will come to the games merely at the direction of their agents for the exposure. I mean, that really seems to be what it all about.
I heard on the radio that the TV ratings for NFL football in the LA market were actually much better last year when LA had no team than they were this year with the Rams there.
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Heard some sports talk show discuss the move and the situation so mimics the browns.
Chargers in Sand Diego for 56 yrs.
Spanos asking for a new stadium as far back as 1995 when the Chargers were in the Super Bowl vs San Fran.
Padres after 1 winning season get a new baseball stadium, but the chargers continue to be ignored.
Spanos...he had no choice.
Heard some sports talk show discuss the move and the situation so mimics the browns.
Chargers in Sand Diego for 56 yrs.
Spanos asking for a new stadium as far back as 1995 when the Chargers were in the Super Bowl vs San Fran.
Padres after 1 winning season get a new baseball stadium, but the chargers continue to be ignored.
Spanos...he had no choice.
The difference is that the people of Cleveland vote FOR the tax measure for the stadium when it was put on the ballot. Modell wanted to leave anyway because he was desperate and inept and wanted the cash bribe he was being offered.
It didn't help him. He was kicked out of the league for his financial incompetence anyway.
The same fate will unlikely affect Spanos.
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Boo fucking hoo. And of course corporatist ESPN is going to run a puff piece on how sad this move is.
Reality? Spanos is a greedy bastard who doesn't care about anything especially the viability/perception of the NFL. As George Carlin famously said, it's a club and you ain't in it.. and they don't care about you.
Are the Chargers correct? FUCK NO. The entire notion of a team is its city - without that, the team is literally nothing. Thought experiment: What, exactly, is the current Browns organization without Cleveland? Because Haslam doesn't get to take it with him.. that's Cleveland's.
I say let Spanos and his rent-a-team fail for however long it takes. He'll come crawling back and be told to sit down, shut up, and pay for a stadium renovation out of his own revenue sharing deal.
And if he doesn't, GOOD FOR SAN DIEGO. I live in a town (suburb of Boston) that happily and correctly told the Olympics to go pound sand because the economics weren't a good deal for the taxpayers.
Ultimately this is not really a commentary on the NFL as an institution --- it's a commentary on the laughable absurdity of public cost / private profit enterprises, and the continuing revolt against the economic policies of the 1% who own each individual business.
A liberal talking economics making very little sense. Shocked.
A liberal talking economics making very little sense. Shocked.
Of course, they are the only ones that have ever made sense out of the economy. Ready for another round of trickle down Voodoo?
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Heard some sports talk show discuss the move and the situation so mimics the browns.
Chargers in Sand Diego for 56 yrs.
Spanos asking for a new stadium as far back as 1995 when the Chargers were in the Super Bowl vs San Fran.
Padres after 1 winning season get a new baseball stadium, but the chargers continue to be ignored.
Spanos...he had no choice.
Spanos had no choice if he wanted to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses.
We wouldn't expect a Steelers fan to know the details of 1995, but regarding Artie- not exactly. He had the original sweetheart deal from the City of Cleveland- essentially free stadium, all the concessions, and the rather primitive luxury box revenue. And he had the Indians as a captive tenant. Hit Model right in the pocket when the Tribe moved to Jacobs Field. But though he had to be jealous, Artie never asked for a NEW Stadium, The plans for a remodeled one were on the books, and there was a vote on the November ballot. That's where Spanos and Modell diverge. Spanos has been bellyaching for a new stadium for decades, Voters rejected funding a couple months ago. Modell never asked for one- and if he had- it would have been a done deal. There's a difference in wealth too. Alex is worth over a billion- Modell had no choice BECAUSE it came to light after the fact- he was essentially broke. Even with the $42 million bribe from Baltimore, the state of Maryland- and a sweetheart deal that made anything he had in Cleveland look like chump change, he was forced to sell out to Biscotti- because Fleet Bank was threatening foreclosure on him. Plus, Modell could have sold out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. As Mr. DeFord famously said- "Sorry Art, you're just not RICH enough to own a football team anymore."
Spanos had no choice if he wanted to keep up with the (Jerry) Jonses.
We wouldn't expect a Steelers fan to know the details of 1995, but regarding Artie- not exactly. He had the original sweetheart deal from the City of Cleveland- essentially free stadium, all the concessions, and the rather primitive luxury box revenue. And he had the Indians as a captive tenant. Hit Model right in the pocket when the Tribe moved to Jacobs Field. But though he had to be jealous, Artie never asked for a NEW Stadium, The plans for a remodeled one were on the books, and there was a vote on the November ballot. That's where Spanos and Modell diverge. Spanos has been bellyaching for a new stadium for decades, Voters rejected funding a couple months ago. Modell never asked for one- and if he had- it would have been a done deal. There's a difference in wealth too. Alex is worth over a billion- Modell had no choice BECAUSE it came to light after the fact- he was essentially broke. Even with the $42 million bribe from Baltimore, the state of Maryland- and a sweetheart deal that made anything he had in Cleveland look like chump change, he was forced to sell out to Biscotti- because Fleet Bank was threatening foreclosure on him. Plus, Modell could have sold out to Al Lerner, but nope, he wanted to pass the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. As Mr. DeFord famously said- "Sorry Art, you're just not RICH enough to own a football team anymore."
It was $75 mill. Larry, not 42. And that still didn't help.
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I was stationed at Coronado when Fouts and Winslow played for the Chargers. Went to many a game with my unit and had some outstanding tail gates there. Damn shame I think.
Always wanted to go to San Diego. Guess I will settle for Vegas to see the Raiders play the Broncos and bet on the Browns.
In fact I will email my Broncos season multi-ticket holding nephew and see if he wants to get us tickets and meet me there.
Always wanted to go to San Diego. Guess I will settle for Vegas to see the Raiders play the Broncos and bet on the Browns.
In fact I will email my Broncos season multi-ticket holding nephew and see if he wants to get us tickets and meet me there.
When is that move supposed to happen? Rams/Chargers get to LA before Raiders get to Vegas.
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From my understanding, Stan Kronke (or however you spell it) paid for the new stadium in LA himself. The league might have chipped in some money in exchange for having the NFL combine and all league offices be a part of this new giant palace in Inglewood.
The Raiders will do fine in Vegas....big following, cheap flights from LA, OC or Bay area and it seems clear that Raiders fans don't care where the team plays and they'll still follow them. SD Chargers fans are not going to follow this team to LA even though its' only about 90 miles away. People in SD hate everything about LA and there's no chance they're going to support the team up there.
I know you've been following this Mark. The SD folks had to know by now how the new stadium or I'll move extortion game is played. They had their chance- and vote, adios.
I know you've been following this Mark. The SD folks had to know by now how the new stadium or I'll move extortion game is played. They had their chance- and vote, adios.
I think they knew. There's too many issues with why the vote failed to type here. Essentially though, they had one vote in 15 years and it was a half assed effort at best for a new stadium that was thrown together a couple of months after the team tried to move to LA after last season. The vote had zero chance of passing this past november and the team knew that and talked about the fact that it was a "starting point" to see what they could get accomplished. The fact that the team has been talking about needing a new stadium (and rightfully so, Qualcomm is a dump and has been for years) for 15 years and between the team and the city they've only managed to get one half assed plan on a ballot is a pretty poor effort. From my outside looking in perspective, the city officials don't really care if the team is there or not and the team ownership doesn't have the leader or the front man to get something done because I believe the team owner always wanted to move the team to LA.
I feel bad for the fans of the Chargers, they deserve better than this and much like what all of us went through 22 years ago, they didn't have much of a chance to stop it from happening.
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I feel bad for the fans of the Chargers, they deserve better than this and much like what all of us went through 22 years ago, they didn't have much of a chance to stop it from happening.
Except, of course the difference was that "we"....the City of Cleveland at least, had a 100% chance of stopping it from happening. Cleveland had the ironclad lease.
The only way that our situation would have been parallel would have been if Modell had stayed here until the lease ran out (which he didn't but I believe the Chargers did) and if Cuyahoga County had rejected the ballot measure, (which they didn't).
So, no, the parallel is not there.
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The Cleveland parallel is an interesting take. Not hard to see a possible return to SD three years down the road following a stadium deal. Especially if the Chargers draw less than expected as LA's "other team".
The diehards are telling the team to go fuck themselves and dumping boxes full of Chargers gear in front of the team offices.
Understandable, short-term reaction... let's see what July brings.As for a Browns hypothetical move to Columbus? As long as they are still the Browns, then I'd follow them. After all from Texas, what difference would it make other than "The Columbus Browns" sounding weird as hell for a couple years.
For every truly disenfranchised, invested fan in the greater Cleveland area, there'd probably be at least one in mid-Ohio to take their place. Hell... IIRC... it'd make hoota's travel much shorter.
This might be a BIG financial mistake with the NFL showing cracks in the shield, viewership is actually dropping particularly on the Thursday and even less interest in Sunday Night and Monday Night games.
A good chunk of the ratings decline has been explained by a rise in mobile viewing on line."When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
War, did you read anything regarding the actual plan proposed by the Chargers? Why, exactly, do you support raising the taxes of SD?
If 85% of economists -- even Greg Mankiw -- agree on something... they're probably right. Public subsidies for stadiums are generally a BAD idea for the taxpayer.
The Chargers put out a horrible, obviously flawed "plan" with assumptions that never had a chance of being true - and just expected everyone to dumbly buy it.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
The Cleveland parallel is an interesting take. Not hard to see a possible return to SD three years down the road following a stadium deal. Especially if the Chargers draw less than expected as LA's "other team".
The diehards are telling the team to go fuck themselves and dumping boxes full of Chargers gear in front of the team offices.
Understandable, short-term reaction... let's see what July brings.As for a Browns hypothetical move to Columbus? As long as they are still the Browns, then I'd follow them. After all from Texas, what difference would it make other than "The Columbus Browns" sounding weird as hell for a couple years.
For every truly disenfranchised, invested fan in the greater Cleveland area, there'd probably be at least one in mid-Ohio to take their place. Hell... IIRC... it'd make hoota's travel much shorter.
This might be a BIG financial mistake with the NFL showing cracks in the shield, viewership is actually dropping particularly on the Thursday and even less interest in Sunday Night and Monday Night games.
A good chunk of the ratings decline has been explained by a rise in mobile viewing on line.The Cleveland parallel is an interesting take. Not hard to see a possible return to SD three years down the road following a stadium deal. Especially if the Chargers draw less than expected as LA's "other team".
Understandable, short-term reaction... let's see what July brings.
As for a Browns hypothetical move to Columbus? As long as they are still the Browns, then I'd follow them. After all from Texas, what difference would it make other than "The Columbus Browns" sounding weird as hell for a couple years.
For every truly disenfranchised, invested fan in the greater Cleveland area, there'd probably be at least one in mid-Ohio to take their place. Hell... IIRC... it'd make hoota's travel much shorter.
First Tour we'll see how playing in a 20k stadium works out.
Regarding a possible Browns move, can't happen anytime soon. Part of the deal to let Modell out of town, the best lawyers in Cleveland drew up an ironclad 30 year lease that's essentially impossible to break.
As to the Columbus Browns, no thanks, though it would knock 4 hours off the round trip.
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The Cleveland parallel is an interesting take. Not hard to see a possible return to SD three years down the road following a stadium deal. Especially if the Chargers draw less than expected as LA's "other team".
Understandable, short-term reaction... let's see what July brings.
As for a Browns hypothetical move to Columbus? As long as they are still the Browns, then I'd follow them. After all from Texas, what difference would it make other than "The Columbus Browns" sounding weird as hell for a couple years.
For every truly disenfranchised, invested fan in the greater Cleveland area, there'd probably be at least one in mid-Ohio to take their place. Hell... IIRC... it'd make hoota's travel much shorter.
First Tour we'll see how playing in a 20k stadium works out.
Regarding a possible Browns move, can't happen anytime soon. Part of the deal to let Modell out of town, the best lawyers in Cleveland drew up an ironclad 30 year lease that's essentially impossible to break.
As to the Columbus Browns, no thanks, though it would knock 4 hours off the round trip.
First Tour we'll see how playing in a 20k stadium works out.
Regarding a possible Browns move, can't happen anytime soon. Part of the deal to let Modell out of town, the best lawyers in Cleveland drew up an ironclad 30 year lease that's essentially impossible to break.
As to the Columbus Browns, no thanks, though it would knock 4 hours off the round trip.
They apparently will be moving there training camp down there soon, so you will have a short trip for that.
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