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Manny Ramirez SUSPENDED 50 Games - Performance Enhancers

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  • C CLEVELandMILIDH

    @beanpot said:

    Congrats on making terrific use of copy & paste. Now go back and make a compelling argument that states that Bud Selig is the reason why Pete Rose is not in the HOF.

    Beanpot

    I'll try out that copy & paste thing again

    Pete Rose should be certainly allowed back into baseball. When Bart Giamatti, the commissioner at the time the gambling allegations were made against Rose, suspended Rose for life, he didn’t intend for it to be a lifetime banishment. Giamatti took this action after the Dowd Report was returned and seemed to damn Rose on gambling charges. When Rose signed the agreement to be suspended for life by Giamatti, he signed the agreement under the pretext that he would be suspended from baseball for a year and then he could apply for re-instatement. Rose fully believed he would be allowed to return at this point. Well, to paraphrase a long chain of events, Bart Giamatti died and to present day the commissioners of baseball have not been nearly as sympathetic to Rose’s case for reinstatement as I believe Mr. Giamatti would have been.

    The current commissioner, Bud Selig, has always maintained that Rose would not be reinstated until he admitted to betting on baseball and showed contrition for his actions. For more than a decade, much predating Selig’s reign as commissioner, Rose refused to admit that he bet on baseball, only admitting to betting on football. Rose admitted to betting on baseball eleven months ago to Mr. Selig, but it was kept a secret until now. Rose has now admitted to betting on baseball and has shown contrition. So now I pose a question: What else does Rose need to do to be reinstated?

    The answer to this question is nothing. Rose should have been re-instated after being banished for a year. The fourteen years that he has been out of baseball is ludicrous. Even without the present day confession, Rose paid his debt to baseball after simply being away from the game for a year. After fourteen years of being away from baseball, admitting to the gambling, and showing contrition there is no logical reason to ban him any longer. Not only has he served more than his time, he has fulfilled Selig’s conditions to be reinstated. It is time for him to restore Pete Rose to Major League Baseball.

    nmills said:

    I'll try out that copy & paste thing again

    Wonderful. Next time go the extra mile and add a link to what you copy and paste. It's simple courtesy.

    As for your link to a dogstreetjournal article from 5 years ago, the only words that come to mind are "you have got to be xxxxing kidding me."

    Look, if you're in your infancy of this discussion (which you clearly are, given that source) I strongly recommend you dig a bit deeper. The discussion has evolved into all sorts of xxxxedupedness from supporters and detractors, but the one rallying point is that your copy and paste brilliance is nothing more than dated ignorance.

    I'm serious when I say that the entire topic is a bore and that there are no winners. It's folly to blame anyone other than Rose for his banishment, but the effort to do just that is numbing.

    We're having a fun discussion about the topic on the link below (warning - your belief that Bud Selig is the reason why Rose isn't in the HOF may be met with blank stares, given the idiocy behind that opinion - no offense)

    http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/05/14...structing-pete/

    Beanpot

  • FlugelF Flugel

    @beanpot said:

    Terrific post Tom. We've gone down this road for nearly a decade in various formats so while I applaud you for your inclusiveness, allow me to tell the naive to blow it out their ass when they continue to wag their finger at MLB while supporting the NFL. I get why those people prefer one sport to the other, but they're lying their sweet ass off if they point to PEDs as a bullet point.

    This was hardly a dark day for baseball. Sucked ass for my fantasy team, but not for the sport. Simply validated testing.

    Beanpot

    Thanks Beans! I know you LOVE baseball the way I love football so I know you're hoping MLB continues the recent efforts and strides they are making. I think they're going in a much better direction. And just remember, we're NEVER going to lose the guys that WANT it so bad they'll work their tails off the RIGHT way to be as good as HUMANLY possible. Key word in that sentence is "humanly."

    The NEXT message all sports need to send is that those getting caught cheating need to LOSE a considerable portion of salary BEYOND the games missed due to suspension.

    There's ALWAYS going to be guys that WANT to cheat one way or another to gain an edge. Doing the RIGHT thing up at the TOP of each professional league will have a good trickle down effect. Modernized testing can detect ALOT of today's drugs of choice. However, if the message is clearly sent that this LEAGUE does not want to exchange greed (keeping testing costs low in relation to profit margins) for what is right - this is what we call an ENABLING FACTOR. Enabling factors superceed all other variables whether we like it or not. Mankind has pushed the borders of right and wrong since the Gqarden of Eden if I summarized the forbidden fruit story correctly. Like Beans alluded to, throw in $22 million and WHO is thinking about Heaven in the afterlife when they grew up piss poor in this life? THAT is what I want removed.

    I worked in Tampa Bay's weight room part time when I was a Coporate Fitness Manager for Xerox in the late 90s. More specifically, I was sked to witness a random drug test involving 3 guys. 2 of them never made the final roster if we want to get a sense of how comprehensive it all is.

    What ALOT of people don't realize is that MANY players make themselves HUGE abusers all the way until they get that dream signing bonus. And then the team that paid it ponders - what happened? We've seen this free agents that disappeared into the sunset quietly and highly sought rookie hopefuls. Tony Mandarach had to QUIT juicing because his LIVER was failing and on it's way out. Green Bay got a enormous pick that was supposed to dominate people. By the time football season rolled around he was so sick from his steroid abuse - he barely made the team as he was going through batteries of health assessments. That said, GB paid an HUGE signing bonus. Then there's the TO's of the league that suffer the mental/emotional rollercoasters of unpredictability and unreliability. Out of nowhere this guy becomes an elite receiver when he was once only good enough to play ball at Chattanoogoa - where they turn out LESS pros than Division II/III Texas Kingsville. In an era of salary cap and outrageous signing bonuses, season ticket prices and the prognosis for team success centers around WHO is getting these signign bonuses.

    ALL sports CAN clean it up considerably if they fork out the dollars. I HATE this feeling but sometimes when I see a guy I thought was Superman dying anywhere from mid 30s up until 50th birthdays - I can't help but wonder was this a NATURAL athlete? These MAJOR sports never sucked before the steroids invasion. In fact, I think the tackling and pitching was BETTER before the cheating was allowed to get so widespread. It's all about the enabling factors folks.

    - Tom F. (If the Rocky story had steroids in it - there's ONLY 1 state in this country that would have still deemed him the ultimate hero. Look no further than where it was filmed)

    @flugel said:

    Thanks Beans! I know you LOVE baseball the way I love football so I know you're hoping MLB continues the recent efforts and strides they are making. I think they're going in a much better direction. And just remember, we're NEVER going to lose the guys that WANT it so bad they'll work their tails off the RIGHT way to be as good as HUMANLY possible. Key word in that sentence is "humanly."

    Amen.

    Beanpot

  • Damn, there's a filter in place here. When did that happen? All of the xxxxxx's in my posts were filthy words. Imagine away!

    Beanpot

  • Look I agree with pretty much every opinion you have when talking baseball and I'm sure you have much more baseball knowledge than I. With that said I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. True Rose was the one who bet on baseball, true he's an arrogant SOB but theres many people in the HOF who are not liked; many cheaters, racists, murders and so on. In my opinion If Bud Selig would've reinstated Rose he would be in the HOF. To me thats Selig keeping him outta the HOF. I understand if you dont agree with that, thats your opinion; but when you respond to me you can show a little respect. I've never attacked you or anyone on this board and I would expect the same in return.

    1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico
  • C CLEVELandMILIDH

    Look I agree with pretty much every opinion you have when talking baseball and I'm sure you have much more baseball knowledge than I. With that said I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. True Rose was the one who bet on baseball, true he's an arrogant SOB but theres many people in the HOF who are not liked; many cheaters, racists, murders and so on. In my opinion If Bud Selig would've reinstated Rose he would be in the HOF. To me thats Selig keeping him outta the HOF. I understand if you dont agree with that, thats your opinion; but when you respond to me you can show a little respect. I've never attacked you or anyone on this board and I would expect the same in return.

    nmills said:

    when you respond to me you can show a little respect. I've never attacked you or anyone on this board and I would expect the same in return.

    Oh bite me.

    Seriously, if I knew how to work the emoticons I'd have a smiley face right here.

    I respect the hell out of you. You're willing to argue about effing baseball. That earns you some mad cred (however the kids say it) and I wish there were more out there like you.

    So we disagree about Rose. Doesn't mean I think you're an idiot. Way WAY far from it. Hell, you've taken the time to post stuff from Castro on the Tribe Board. I should be licking your feet for that.

    Bottom line is that I DO respect your opinions and thank you for your contributions. It's just that I enjoy going toe to toe with a fellow baseball fan. I'll do some work on the "do not demean an adversary" part.

    Wish me luck on that.

    Beanpot

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