Psychic Projections
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OK, here you go for any of you that want to play. I want you to put on your Karnak the Magnificent hat and make your psychic projection about the QB prospects coming in this year. For purposes of this, please allow your mind to consider each candidate in how his career will turn out along the following measuring scale with some samples
Great: Hall of Fame, possibly SB winning talent (Aaron Rodgers/Ben R. type)
Good: Consistently leading his team to playoffs, if not quite great (Andy Daltonish)
Average: Serviceable, starter some for average to poor team. Spot starter, or career backup (Colt McCoyish)
Bust: You know what this means....we have seen it enough (Johnny Manziel/Brady Quinn/Brandon Weeden country)
So, here you go in alphabetical order:
Josh Allen: Total Bust. I'm in complete awe of people's fascination with a guy from Wyoming who has shown so very little. We might as well call him "Uncle Rico" because the only thing he can do is throw the ball over them mountains. 13 TD's? Really? The only plays the Networks show from Allen are the ones where the pocket breaks down, he runs to the right, and he fires a ball down the field. I'm scouring videos and looking for videos that show Allen taking the snap, looking through progressions, and firing an accurate ball. I can't find too much of that. Josh Allen just seems like the next version of the guy who can throw it a mile, but not where you need it to go. For a team like the Browns, who have struggled (obviously) with finding a QB, can you really afford to take a guy from Wyoming just because he LOOKS like the best QB? Furthermore, if I hear ONE MORE PERSON compare Allen to Big Ben, I'll lose my mind. Big Ben had like 37 passing TDs his last year, and probably several other rushing ones. In other words, Ben just about tripled Josh Allen's output. Allen scares me to death. Pass.
Sam Darnold: Good. This one is so difficult to judge because Darnold appears to be raw to me, and the turnovers scare me to death. He's young, and we saw first hand what a young QB who struggles with turnovers can do in the NFL, but Darnold definitely has moxie and grit. He's a natural play-maker and may possibly be more of an "athlete" than a pure "QB". Faster than you think with a better arm than some give him credit for, Darnold has ideal size and toughness for the NFL QB position. He's a threat to run it in during red zone possessions, and he's pretty deadly throwing it on the run. Much has been said about his "loopy" throwing motion, and we'll see if that's an issue in the NFL. Edge defenders are quite adept at stripping the ball if it's held low, so that could be an issue unless it's corrected. Still, I find myself intrigued, and at this early stage of the process, I believe he's a worthy candidate.
Lamar Jackson: No Effing Clue (New category, LOL) You'll constantly hear from pundits across the land that Josh Allen has the most "upside" of all the QB's in the draft. That might be, but I can make a compelling argument that Lamar Jackson possesses the highest upside of the QB class. Now, much of Lamar's chances for success will hinge on the specific offense that is designed around him. If you want him to play under center, you may not get what you're looking for (right away), but if the offense is molded to fit around Lamar's unique physical gifts, you could see someone capable of putting up points and gashing defenses for large chunks of yardage. He's actually faster than you think, and it's not just his top speed, but how quickly he GETS THERE. His acceleration is baffling, and he can go from a throwing stance to all-out sprint in about one step. THAT'S what makes him so completely dangerous to defenders. It's difficult to get the correct angle on Lamar, and his highlights are littered with plays where defenders appear to have him lined up, but then don't even touch the guy because they misjudged his speed. There's also a trend now where analysts are saying Lamar's stock is rapidly ascending, not for QB, but for WR. I think that's a bit premature, and also lazy analysis. Some writers make it seem like Lamar can't throw the ball, and nothing could be further from the truth. He's deadly accurate across the middle, has a terrific home-run ball, and has perfected the play-action slant pattern. There's a WR on the Browns' roster (well, for now) who might be the best slant runner in the league. Lamar to Gordon? Hmmmm. (it's not going to happen, but it'd be fun to watch!) I say "No Effing Clue" about Lamar because he's probably a project player, and it's likely we won't see him play too much QB in 2018, unless it's preseason. Given time and the right system, he could be a monster to defend. Additionally, if you draft Lamar, you could have a field day creating "red zone packages" for him, and this is one more thing defenses would have to prepare for. 1st and goal from the 10 yard line? Uh oh, here comes Lamar. Is he running? Passing? Whatever it is, it's scary.
Baker Mayfield: Great. My only "great" ranking of the bunch, and this could change as the process evolves, but I like this kid. A lot. He was a walk-on at Texas Tech as a freshman, and what's he do? He wins the job...as a walk-on FRESHMAN. He loses the job (I forget why...injury? Another big name beat him out while hurt, right?), and then he goes to Oklahoma, AGAIN as a walk-on. What's he do there? He wins the job, and then wins the freaking Heisman. Does he have question marks about his character? Maybe. Yes he was arrested for something stupid and troubling. Yes, he tends to get a little animated and does bone-head stuff during the games. But like I said in another thread, I think Cleveland NEEDS a little chip on their shoulder. I think we could use a little fire and gusto. Does Baker need to tone it down and not HURT his team? Yeah he does. Does his risk of injury go up if he ticks off the wrong people in the league? Possibly. But look, I'm TIRED...no...I'm BEYOND tired of being the NFL whipping boy, and I'm ready for a team that is sick of it too. Can you imagine how difficult it is for a guy to win the QB job at a major passing university as a walk-on? Now, imagine the same guy doing it TWICE, but the second time, it's at a major university in Oklahoma.
Josh Rosen: Good with the possibility of being great. Rosen throws the ball better than anyone, and when you break down the QB position, it basically comes down to delivering the football to your guy, at the right time. Rosen does this, and does it well. The only thing holding him back from "great" is his PERCEIVED attitude and personality. Maybe it's no big deal and scouts and analysts are simply looking for a flaw that doesn't exist. We'll know soon, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Rosen do well, ESPECIALLY if he falls a little bit to a better team.
Mason Rudolph: Bust. I don't believe guys like Mason can get it done anymore in the NFL. He throws it pretty well, but he appears to be a statue in the pocket, and I don't see him having the necessary protection he needs to be successful. I'd literally be shocked if he ever turns into a starter.
Lamar Jackson: No Effing Clue (New category, LOL)
I agree with you. LOL
from NFL.COM on Jackson:
"Weaknesses
Carries spindly legs and a thin base. Slightly built for punishing hits he takes from pocket and as a runner. Must learn to slide. Lackadaisical in setup. Throws with excessively narrow base and stiff front side. Flips it rather than throws it. Makes targets work too hard. Sails throws that can end up in hands of a safety. At times, hesitates to challenge safeties in the seam. Low release point leads to tipped passes. Typically gets through reads 1 and 2 before halting progressions. Pocket awareness has room for improvement. Move accuracy on rollouts and scrambles is poor. Highly inaccurate with throws on the move throughout the 2017 season. Underthrown deep balls allow cornerbacks to play the ball. Lacks touch over the heads of middle linebackers into intermediate pockets. Turnover total still too high.Draft Projection
Rounds 1-2NFL Comparison
Michael Vick" -
Mason Rudolph: Bust. I don't believe guys like Mason can get it done anymore in the NFL. He throws it pretty well, but he appears to be a statue in the pocket, and I don't see him having the necessary protection he needs to be successful. I'd literally be shocked if he ever turns into a starter.
Sounds kinda like that guy that plays up there in the Boston area.
Mason Rudolph: Bust. I don't believe guys like Mason can get it done anymore in the NFL. He throws it pretty well, but he appears to be a statue in the pocket, and I don't see him having the necessary protection he needs to be successful. I'd literally be shocked if he ever turns into a starter.
Sounds kinda like that guy that plays up there in the Boston area.
As of now, Brady has the better arm Gip.
Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefited from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter.DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3
PS- Rudolph was throwing to two guys- Washington and Ateman that are going to get drafted. Washington possibly before Rudolph.
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Mason Rudolph: Bust. I don't believe guys like Mason can get it done anymore in the NFL. He throws it pretty well, but he appears to be a statue in the pocket, and I don't see him having the necessary protection he needs to be successful. I'd literally be shocked if he ever turns into a starter.
Sounds kinda like that guy that plays up there in the Boston area.
As of now, Brady has the better arm Gip.
Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefited from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter.DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3
PS- Rudolph was throwing to two guys- Washington and Ateman that are going to get drafted. Washington possibly before Rudolph.
As of now, Brady has the better arm Gip.
Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefited from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter.
DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3
PS- Rudolph was throwing to two guys- Washington and Ateman that are going to get drafted. Washington possibly before Rudolph.
Exactly. I'm very hesitant to draft guys who were successful throwing to the best WRs. The reason accuracy is so coveted in the NFL is because receivers aren't "open" in the pros like they were in college. You don't have as much time to process, guys aren't as open, and coverages are more complex. Getting a quarterback right is difficult, or else it wouldn't be such a problem. Every single QB in this draft comes with their own significant question marks, and I just truly hope we somehow manage to get it right. Of course, we could get lucky and the VETERAN we sign soon could be the answer. Don't laugh, it worked for San Francisco. Of course, there are SOME of us who actually wanted to DRAFT Garoppolo, but hey...what do I know? *grumble*
Sign McCarron. Pray...PRAY....he can successfully run an NFL offense and stay healthy. Draft Baker Mayfield and see what he's got. Don't trade down, don't get cute. Take your #1 rated QB and screw what the analysts think. At pick #4, same thing. DON'T GET CUTE. Trade down ONLY if it's to #6, and take advantage of a Jets team that needs a QB and will give us a big pick in return. This is assuming they don't get Cousins, which sounds like a long shot if the report of them offering a staggering $60 million in the 1st year are valid. At any rate, NO MORE trading down to the freaking 20's!
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As of now, Brady has the better arm Gip.
Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefited from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter.
DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3
PS- Rudolph was throwing to two guys- Washington and Ateman that are going to get drafted. Washington possibly before Rudolph.
Exactly. I'm very hesitant to draft guys who were successful throwing to the best WRs. The reason accuracy is so coveted in the NFL is because receivers aren't "open" in the pros like they were in college. You don't have as much time to process, guys aren't as open, and coverages are more complex. Getting a quarterback right is difficult, or else it wouldn't be such a problem. Every single QB in this draft comes with their own significant question marks, and I just truly hope we somehow manage to get it right. Of course, we could get lucky and the VETERAN we sign soon could be the answer. Don't laugh, it worked for San Francisco. Of course, there are SOME of us who actually wanted to DRAFT Garoppolo, but hey...what do I know? *grumble*
Sign McCarron. Pray...PRAY....he can successfully run an NFL offense and stay healthy. Draft Baker Mayfield and see what he's got. Don't trade down, don't get cute. Take your #1 rated QB and screw what the analysts think. At pick #4, same thing. DON'T GET CUTE. Trade down ONLY if it's to #6, and take advantage of a Jets team that needs a QB and will give us a big pick in return. This is assuming they don't get Cousins, which sounds like a long shot if the report of them offering a staggering $60 million in the 1st year are valid. At any rate, NO MORE trading down to the freaking 20's!
Exactly. I'm very hesitant to draft guys who were successful throwing to the best WRs. The reason accuracy is so coveted in the NFL is because receivers aren't "open" in the pros like they were in college. You don't have as much time to process, guys aren't as open, and coverages are more complex. Getting a quarterback right is difficult, or else it wouldn't be such a problem. Every single QB in this draft comes with their own significant question marks, and I just truly hope we somehow manage to get it right. Of course, we could get lucky and the VETERAN we sign soon could be the answer. Don't laugh, it worked for San Francisco. Of course, there are SOME of us who actually wanted to DRAFT Garoppolo, but hey...what do I know? *grumble*
Sign McCarron. Pray...PRAY....he can successfully run an NFL offense and stay healthy. Draft Baker Mayfield and see what he's got. Don't trade down, don't get cute. Take your #1 rated QB and screw what the analysts think. At pick #4, same thing. DON'T GET CUTE. Trade down ONLY if it's to #6, and take advantage of a Jets team that needs a QB and will give us a big pick in return. This is assuming they don't get Cousins, which sounds like a long shot if the report of them offering a staggering $60 million in the 1st year are valid. At any rate, NO MORE trading down to the freaking 20's!
^^Love this post.^^
IMHO, too many are saying we should sign Cousins or McCarron & wait until later for a QB. DO NOT pass up on taking a possible franchise QB at #1 to "settle" for what's available later. The Browns have made that "take one later" mistake far too many times. The culture in Cleveland HAS to change. I believe we have finally turned the FO reins over to men who can & will reverse the negative culture that has existed here since "the return". I also believe they will take the QB THEY deem best AT #1.
I can hardly wait for this draft!
Mike
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Josh Allen: Bust. Great kid - ideal altar boy but small school corners rendered him inconsistent. I can see why an avid Ratbird fan like Mel Kiper wants us to gag on this kid.... If we draft him, I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Oh, hold on, someone said he LOVES football so what's the worry???
Sam Darnold: Great. Beat the Big 10 Champions as a Freshman before winning the Pac 12 in 2017. He's a much better version of winning than Charlie Sheen. There's some legit success here as depicted in my QB stats thread. FWIW, I heard from a very credible source he's played QB for 3 years in his entire football career so the upside is killer good here. I do admit there's a lot to clean up.... Having said that, I almost forgot he LOVES football so how could we go wrong.
Lamar Jackson: Bust. Nice kid though and he LOVES football if only it mattered. If they ever want to re-make the movie Mod Squad again - he'd be my pick to play Linc. We already drafted him last year in the 2nd round. No need to repeat such a mistake at #1 or #4 overall. He may have some Vince Young in him for quick, short lived success but no thanks.... But man does he LOVE football....
Baker Mayfield: Great. I'd have to get really creative to see anything just average about him. Oh wait - he LOVES football so we'd be all set...
Josh Rosen: Good to average. I'm not a big fan of this guy but I feel like I'm swimming against the current with my old school stubborn.
Mason Rudolph: Good-great. Brandon Weeden has single-handedly assassinated this kid's chances of a fan base like our's at giving him a chance. That said, his HC at Ok State said he's the only starting QB to lead them to 10 wins or more for 3 consecutive years. I like his upside enough to swim against the current if I have to. And don't forget - he LOVES football too.
Mike White. Great. Most underrated QB in the draft IMO. Let me start and finish by saying he loves football enough to understand the completion percentage I printed in the QB stats as well as the nice TD:INT ratio only a LOVE for the game not to be confused with talent can accomplish.... If we lasso AJ McCarron in FA - we need to alley oop it with Mike White. And have I told you he's a nice kid too? Oh yeah, he's a GREAT kid!
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FEB. 25, 2018 VERY ROUGH IDEAS, WILL PROBABLY CHANGE BEFORE THE DRAFT
Josh Allen: Great, Good, Average, Bust....... unknown, maybe average
Sam Darnold: Great, Good, Average, Bust......maybe the best of the class of 2018, good
Lamar Jackson: Great, Good, Average, Bust..... average at best
Baker Mayfield: Great, Good, Average, Bust..... might improve if he's behind an established quarterback then good?
Josh Rosen: Great, Good, Average, Bust....... can't get a read on him yet, some have him1st, some 3rd, average for now
Mason Rudolph: Great, Good, Average, Bust...... a gamble not worth taking in R1, average?
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