Observations
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Steinbach. Not sure if he's 100%. He got beaten badly on an inside pass rush and sorta flailed at a guy on a screen. His forte is supposed to be his feet and he looked slow on both plays.
Rookie DT Sen'Derrick Marks also got past Steinbach on a run play. Marks isn't a power player - he only put up a 16 bench at his pro day. Instead, it looked like he was just too quick and - at 6'1" - too low for the 6'6" Steinbach to handle.
When I was at camp, the players stretched by walking across the field, touching the bottom of their cleats every couple steps. I noticed that Steinbach was the only guy who couldn't (or wouldn't) reach all the way down. Could be nothing, but as someone who has had back issues, I took note of it.
I still think he'll be a decent starter this year. If anything, it seemed like Womack was having more trouble holding his ground: I saw him get pushed back twice, once by a 2nd team player (LaJuan Ramsey). And there were several plays where both guys did a good job but Jamal was just too slow to make anything of it.
But I wouldn't be surprised if this is Steiny's last year in Cleveland. That $5.75M 2010 base salary is just a little too pricey for a guy whose best days may be behind him.
Aloysius said:
Rookie DT Sen'Derrick Marks also got past Steinbach on a run play. Marks isn't a power player - he only put up a 16 bench at his pro day. Instead, it looked like he was just too quick and - at 6'1" - too low for the 6'6" Steinbach to handle.When I was at camp, the players stretched by walking across the field, touching the bottom of their cleats every couple steps. I noticed that Steinbach was the only guy who couldn't (or wouldn't) reach all the way down. Could be nothing, but as someone who has had back issues, I took note of it.
I still think he'll be a decent starter this year. If anything, it seemed like Womack was having more trouble holding his ground: I saw him get pushed back twice, once by a 2nd team player (LaJuan Ramsey). And there were several plays where both guys did a good job but Jamal was just too slow to make anything of it.
But I wouldn't be surprised if this is Steiny's last year in Cleveland. That $5.75M 2010 base salary is just a little too pricey for a guy whose best days may be behind him.
That's interesting. I appreciate you pointing this out Alo and it's making some sense to me. I think Steinbach's adjusting to some type of injury that impacts his ability to play with better leverage. I don't think he's lost a step of quickness or the advantage of knowing the snap count. He also seems to do well in pass protection for the most part.
His run-blocking looks impacted some to me particularly on the Marks play you described. I learned from a football icon that said it doesn't matter how much you can bench OR lift if you can't SQUAT and play with better leverage than your opponent in the trenches. STRONGER guys don't always win - it's the guys that understand and apply the physics better. If you can remove someone's base by getting underneath them during the collision, You've just won leverage and positioning. 3 years ago Steinbach would have cleaned Marks' clock on that play IMO.
I agree with what you say that Steinbach is still a decent starter. I think Joe T found him invaluable to the learning curve in 07 when we saw how he did without Steinbach next to him in some of the preseason games. Now i think he'll be a positive influence to Mack on the other side of him.
- Tom F.
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Aloysius said:
Rookie DT Sen'Derrick Marks also got past Steinbach on a run play. Marks isn't a power player - he only put up a 16 bench at his pro day. Instead, it looked like he was just too quick and - at 6'1" - too low for the 6'6" Steinbach to handle.When I was at camp, the players stretched by walking across the field, touching the bottom of their cleats every couple steps. I noticed that Steinbach was the only guy who couldn't (or wouldn't) reach all the way down. Could be nothing, but as someone who has had back issues, I took note of it.
I still think he'll be a decent starter this year. If anything, it seemed like Womack was having more trouble holding his ground: I saw him get pushed back twice, once by a 2nd team player (LaJuan Ramsey). And there were several plays where both guys did a good job but Jamal was just too slow to make anything of it.
But I wouldn't be surprised if this is Steiny's last year in Cleveland. That $5.75M 2010 base salary is just a little too pricey for a guy whose best days may be behind him.
That's interesting. I appreciate you pointing this out Alo and it's making some sense to me. I think Steinbach's adjusting to some type of injury that impacts his ability to play with better leverage. I don't think he's lost a step of quickness or the advantage of knowing the snap count. He also seems to do well in pass protection for the most part.
His run-blocking looks impacted some to me particularly on the Marks play you described. I learned from a football icon that said it doesn't matter how much you can bench OR lift if you can't SQUAT and play with better leverage than your opponent in the trenches. STRONGER guys don't always win - it's the guys that understand and apply the physics better. If you can remove someone's base by getting underneath them during the collision, You've just won leverage and positioning. 3 years ago Steinbach would have cleaned Marks' clock on that play IMO.
I agree with what you say that Steinbach is still a decent starter. I think Joe T found him invaluable to the learning curve in 07 when we saw how he did without Steinbach next to him in some of the preseason games. Now i think he'll be a positive influence to Mack on the other side of him.
- Tom F.
That's interesting. I appreciate you pointing this out Alo and it's making some sense to me. I think Steinbach's adjusting to some type of injury that impacts his ability to play with better leverage. I don't think he's lost a step of quickness or the advantage of knowing the snap count. He also seems to do well in pass protection for the most part.
His run-blocking looks impacted some to me particularly on the Marks play you described. I learned from a football icon that said it doesn't matter how much you can bench OR lift if you can't SQUAT and play with better leverage than your opponent in the trenches. STRONGER guys don't always win - it's the guys that understand and apply the physics better. If you can remove someone's base by getting underneath them during the collision, You've just won leverage and positioning. 3 years ago Steinbach would have cleaned Marks' clock on that play IMO.
I agree with what you say that Steinbach is still a decent starter. I think Joe T found him invaluable to the learning curve in 07 when we saw how he did without Steinbach next to him in some of the preseason games. Now i think he'll be a positive influence to Mack on the other side of him.
- Tom F.
Your loyalty to Steinbach is charming, but badly misplaced.
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Just wanted to send a HUGE thank you to everyone on this thread. After wasting waaaay too much time on those poster bashing threads I find one that has great info and opinions. Not being able to watch many Browns games it's great to read your stuff. Here's hoping for more of the same throughout the season.
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That's interesting. I appreciate you pointing this out Alo and it's making some sense to me. I think Steinbach's adjusting to some type of injury that impacts his ability to play with better leverage. I don't think he's lost a step of quickness or the advantage of knowing the snap count. He also seems to do well in pass protection for the most part.
His run-blocking looks impacted some to me particularly on the Marks play you described. I learned from a football icon that said it doesn't matter how much you can bench OR lift if you can't SQUAT and play with better leverage than your opponent in the trenches. STRONGER guys don't always win - it's the guys that understand and apply the physics better. If you can remove someone's base by getting underneath them during the collision, You've just won leverage and positioning. 3 years ago Steinbach would have cleaned Marks' clock on that play IMO.
I agree with what you say that Steinbach is still a decent starter. I think Joe T found him invaluable to the learning curve in 07 when we saw how he did without Steinbach next to him in some of the preseason games. Now i think he'll be a positive influence to Mack on the other side of him.
- Tom F.
Your loyalty to Steinbach is charming, but badly misplaced.
Your loyalty to Steinbach is charming, but badly misplaced.
Until you get better at pointing out the WHY behind your statement - your comments kind of get lost in space. That's constructive criticism I hope you take advantage of. All these remarks from you without 1 example of what you mean makes an arguement weak as hell guy. Sorry.
Steinbach's got a great resume and at this time - we don't have a more proven Guard on the roster. You and I better hope he's good this year or we're in trouble. And then I see the night all 3 of our QBs had throwing the ball and stand by my conclusion that the pass protection held up well. The run-blocking needs to improve BUT so does Jamal getting to the hole when it's there. If you want to pin all that on Steinbach then so be it.
Furthermore, it wasn't THAT long ago I was looking at a left side of Kevin Shaffer and Joe Andruzzi. So please filll me in on why I should miss Joe Andruzzi as much as you do. Specific examples are welcomed here.
- Tom F.
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BQ is use to smart passing for a living ND had no running game so it may not be as bad a year as you think even though a running game would be nice....
Are you sure about that?
Are you sure about that?
With an extra half-step, Walker is the next Barry Sanders. And nobody ever knows who Reggie Bush is.
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Re-watching the game now:
On a properly set-up and executed screen, Lewis is a wrecking ball in the open field with a step or two. LB'ers coming at him from the sides or back don't have a choice but to get on for the ride for another yard or two. DB's? Please.
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Not having been able to see the game I was wondering if James Davis had more success than Jamal. Is that the case? It seems like the right side of the line (and particularly Pork Chop) has been struggling mightily.
The pass defense is a concern but I think that the whole back seven are lacking in overall speed and I think that's a big part of the problem.
Anyone who saw the game....please advise.
Actually, IMO Davis looked better then Lewis. Lewis still drags defenders but he isn't getting to the hole fast enough. He hit the holes quicker. Titans play that Ryan 46 defense which is hard to run against. You beat them by throwing short passes screens and quick slants which Quinn did well tonight.
Womack looked pretty good. Actually the line did a decent job against that Titan front. The pass defense suffered from the Qb not having enough pressure on him. But, you have to remember this is preseason and teams hold back and show vanila fronts and coverages.
I'm more concerned about the lack of speed of our LBs, covering TEs and RBs then I am about our DBs. Wimbley and Hall both did a nice job against the run and did get some pressure. Collins is a very savy QB and caught used the snap count well to figure out our coverages and blitzes. He caught us a couple times bringing a DB and hit the hot receiver.
The Titans are a solid team and pulled most of their 1s at the end of the first half. We scored and played great in the 3rd quarter but we were playing most 1s against their 2s.
All in all, a very solid game.
Actually, IMO Davis looked better then Lewis. Lewis still drags defenders but he isn't getting to the hole fast enough. He hit the holes quicker. Titans play that Ryan 46 defense which is hard to run against. You beat them by throwing short passes screens and quick slants which Quinn did well tonight.
Womack looked pretty good. Actually the line did a decent job against that Titan front. The pass defense suffered from the Qb not having enough pressure on him. But, you have to remember this is preseason and teams hold back and show vanila fronts and coverages.
I'm more concerned about the lack of speed of our LBs, covering TEs and RBs then I am about our DBs. Wimbley and Hall both did a nice job against the run and did get some pressure. Collins is a very savy QB and caught used the snap count well to figure out our coverages and blitzes. He caught us a couple times bringing a DB and hit the hot receiver.
The Titans are a solid team and pulled most of their 1s at the end of the first half. We scored and played great in the 3rd quarter but we were playing most 1s against their 2s.
All in all, a very solid game.
Titans dont play the 4-6 not sure where the heck you saw that formation from them that game? The Titans have played the 4-3 for the last ten years Ive never seen them run anything else other than dime and nickle packages out of that.
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Man does Trent Dilfer have a vendetta or what? He STILL says DA has the edge. Can't wait til BQ is announced the starter and Dilfer goes off on management again.
Man does Trent Dilfer have a vendetta or what? He STILL says DA has the edge. Can't wait til BQ is announced the starter and Dilfer goes off on management again.
Dildo and DA are good friends and they have the same agent. Dildo has always lobbied for his buddy..
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Re-watching the game now:
On a properly set-up and executed screen, Lewis is a wrecking ball in the open field with a step or two. LB'ers coming at him from the sides or back don't have a choice but to get on for the ride for another yard or two. DB's? Please.
Agreed.
However, I'm fearful that he's lost that all important "step".
Think of it this way, take the same screen (properly set-up and executed) and imagine Jerome Harrison or even James Davis with the ball. Jamal simply isn't a breakaway threat anymore and doesn't scare coordinators (DB's I'm sure he scares the hell out of
). A younger guy with fresh (re: faster) legs on a properly set-up and executed screen? Scary stuff as you can get gashed. -
Tom, I'm a Steinbach fan but the two plays I mentioned in my original post are concerning. The inside pash rush may have been a blown assignment by Mack. Can't be sure. It did look like a miss however, as the guy wasn't in the gap but was a straight up rush on Steinbach. The half-block on the screen play was concerning too since this is supposed to be Eric's forte: his feet.
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